Low T, prescribed Nebibo, second bloods done at 6 weeks, appreciate a review

[nicke1]

Hi

I've been reading the forum for a time, first time post.

I'm UK based, 42 had low T results in two GP tests done around 2-4 years ago but didn't take it further (total t was 8 and 12 nmol/L).

I'm 1.77m, 86kg, body fat of around 10%. Resistance train 3x per week and some light steady state cardio when cutting). Never taken anything previously.

Recently I went to a mens health centre had a set of bloods done. Test came back low again, had a Nebido shot, and then had another set of bloods done at 6 weeks.

I was surprised to see that my total T hasn't really changed (slightly lower) - can it take a few cycles of injections for things to settle? Surely T should have been higher at the 6 week mark though shouldn't it? Appreciate any feedback or comments, etc!!

Initial Bloods:-

Total Test = 10.4 nmol/L [14-40]
SHBG = 31 [20-45]
Free Androgen Index = 34 [70-100]
FSH = 3.0 [.7 - 6]
LH = 2.8 [.8 - 6]
E2 = 74 [55 - 184]
TSH = 2.8 [.4 - 5.5]

Bloods at 6 weeks after 1st Nebido shot.


Total Test = 7.6
SHBG = 33
Free Androgen Index = 23
FSH = 0.4
LH = 0.1
E2 = 64
TSH = 2.04


Many thanks
Nick

[Renholder]

It will take you several months to feel the full effects of Nebido and I would not get discouraged by those first results. Even with a faster acting steroid , it takes time, especially if you`ve had low testosterone for a while.

Did you take another shot after 6 weeks, also known as the booster shot? This one is important.

Did you also get other bloodwork done?

[nicke1]

I would have expected though that my T levels would have improved given that I had exogenous test on top of whatever I'm producing naturally. Or isn't that how it works when you start taking it? Does my system stop producing T (lowered FSH and LH) and thereafter it takes a while for the T levels from the injections to build?

Yes, I had another shot of Nebido at the 6 weeks and have booked for another set of bloods and presumably further shot in 8 weeks time.

I did get a range of other blood tests, there's a couple of pages worth. Let me know if there's any in particular you want to know.

Thanks
Nick

[Renholder]

Read this:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...work...you-ask

And this applies to much faster acting esters than Nebido.

Do you feel any difference yet? I would simply wait and see what happens. No need to worry yet, IMO. 8 weeks for the next shot sounds about right.

There is a thread further down on this forum labeled "Nebido discussions" which you might find interesting.

Good luck!

[Renholder]

The reason I and others ask about complete bloodwork is because low testosterone may be a symptom of something else.

Personally, I`m on Nebido and HCG . Doubled my testosterone levels , but still feel bad after several months of use. I was thorough in my analysis and was told that my thyroid was great, but I`ve later learned that there are tests that I should have taken that I did not. So for me, my problem may be located there, although people I trusted said my thyroid was excellent.

[HRTstudent]

I'm far from an expert on nedibo, but I would say those results suck. If it was 3 weeks, 4 weeks maybe I could buy it. But at 6 weeks I would think you should have seen a slight increase and not a 30% decrease.

At this point, your natural production is nil, and its been that way since probably around week 2. So whatever is in you now is from the injections.

What did your doctor say?

How do you feel subjectively? About the same?

It could be very well that you simply need a bigger dose and/or a little extra booster to get you going in the right direction. I would not take these same results at 12 weeks, however, without making a change.

[nicke1]

And this applies to much faster acting esters than Nebido.

Do you feel any difference yet? I would simply wait and see what happens. No need to worry yet, IMO. 8 weeks for the next shot sounds about right.

There is a thread further down on this forum labeled "Nebido discussions" which you might find interesting.

Good luck!

Thanks. I don't feel any difference at wk6 - it's hard to be objective though because I'm obviously looking out for changes. There were definite signs of libido increasing / spiking in the mid period, say around wk3/4 but these have subsided (e.g. jumping the wife and on a few occassions after waking through the night I had a really strong drive!!! I presume along with the increased T there's daily variations as different hormones are being produced, etc.)

Hopefully T levels will be at a more reasonable level at the end of the next 8 weeks. I don't understand though why I've responded this way with lower T than the start point when others have benefited from the outset.

The reason I and others ask about complete bloodwork is because low testosterone may be a symptom of something else.

Personally, I`m on Nebido and HCG. Doubled my testosterone levels, but still feel bad after several months of use. I was thorough in my analysis and was told that my thyroid was great, but I`ve later learned that there are tests that I should have taken that I did not. So for me, my problem may be located there, although people I trusted said my thyroid was excellent.

I don't believe my thyroid was tested other than TSH. I'll raise this with the endo at the next set of bloods.

I'm far from an expert on nedibo, but I would say those results suck. If it was 3 weeks, 4 weeks maybe I could buy it. But at 6 weeks I would think you should have seen a slight increase and not a 30% decrease.

At this point, your natural production is nil, and its been that way since probably around week 2. So whatever is in you now is from the injections.

What did your doctor say?

How do you feel subjectively? About the same?

It could be very well that you simply need a bigger dose and/or a little extra booster to get you going in the right direction. I would not take these same results at 12 weeks, however, without making a change.

Wow, I didn't realise my own production would shut off so early. The doctor at this stage didn't seem overly concerned, I think he's interested to see where we are at the next bloods.

See above, subjectively I do feel around the same.

I'm not sure there is a bigger dose of Nebido. Any idea why my levels would still be lower than others on Nebido?

I'd like to be prepared for the next session, if my T still comes in low and I need to supplment with another form of T, what would be recommended? I don't want to go down the gel route - I presume I could take the Nebido to serve as a base and then some type of other injectible on a more regular basis. Do you know what else UK doctors can prescribe and what's best/preferred?


Many thanks
Nick

[Renholder]

I understand that you find it strange that your blood work came in lower, but I don`t believe you should read too much into it at this point. Just continue with the treatment protocol and give it some time. I do think you could consider getting the next shot at 6 weeks from the prior shot during this loading phase, at least if you don`t feel any improvements.

TSH alone is pretty much worthless and you need a complete thyroid panel. I find it strange, but not surprising considering the level of ignorance even with endocrinologists, that this was not done prior to to starting TRT.

[HRTstudent]

I wouldn't bother using gels and injects. I would just have him do more frequent dosing to get you started.

If you still feel poorly, then you need to let the doctor know that. TRT is a quality of life treatment first and foremost. Forget the numbers because if you aren't feeling better then its not worth doing. Fortunately for you, you can still improve on the numbers a lot.

[Movingmetal]

I was on a similar test called Reandron 1000. A testosterone undecanoate with a half life of 53 days.
You need a second injection 6 weeks after your first one. After my second injection my total T was 26 nmol/L which is high.
Unfortunetely, you need to wait another 10-14 weeks for 3rd injection.
4 weeks after my second i was already down to 10 nmol/l!!!! which is bullshit.
I came off the test undecanoate and went on to testogel for more stable blood levels

[nicke1]

Thanks for the responses. I'll see where I am at the next bloods in around 7 weeks time.

If my levels still haven't improved, then, I think as a minimum I need to be getting my bloods done far more regularly to see what's happening over the course of the weeks.

It will be interesting to see what strategy the Doctor will employ, I haven't heard of shortening the Nebido intervals to something as low as 4 weeks but wonder if he'll do it if the bloods and symptoms support it.

I'm reluctant to go the gel route - I really don't want to be applying something every day if I can help it.

I wonder if the Doc can top me up with a shorter acting T alongside the Nebido.

Nick

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Marcus stresses that you have to do one pre-load shot with Nebido. Search through his posts for Nebido and see what he recommends.

[BigIce]

Why even worry about the test results!

What matters is how we feel and the quality of life we have.

I am half-way to my 6th shot of Nebido and have yet to have any BW done since I started. (no sides)

My well being and quality of life is so much better then before.
If I had had any problems from using it I would have gotten tested, but I have not needed it.

Nebido takes time to start working but it keeps on getting better and better. Its been months since I thought it had done all it could do for me but it just keeps on doing my more and more good.

Numbers from a blood test are worthless compared to the real-life results of Nebido

Give it time and the benefits will show.

[nicke1]

Marcus stresses that you have to do one pre-load shot with Nebido. Search through his posts for Nebido and see what he recommends.

Thanks, I've trawled though the Nebido related threads but couldn't see anything specific to my situation. There are though of course the references to loading at 6 weeks. My T levels though at 6 weeks were lower than at the beginning so even with this short duration between shots I can' see how a loading effect can occur if my start point is lower than what it started at.

Why even worry about the test results!

What matters is how we feel and the quality of life we have.

I am half-way to my 6th shot of Nebido and have yet to have any BW done since I started. (no sides)

My well being and quality of life is so much better then before.
If I had had any problems from using it I would have gotten tested, but I have not needed it.

Nebido takes time to start working but it keeps on getting better and better. Its been months since I thought it had done all it could do for me but it just keeps on doing my more and more good.

Numbers from a blood test are worthless compared to the real-life results of Nebido

Give it time and the benefits will show.

I agree to an extent, see my earlier post though, I don't feel materially different at the 6 week mark than before starting TRT. I did feel that the lebido was increasing during the mid weeks but nothing stellar and anyway back to where it was.

At the next 8 week mark, assuming I continue to feel the same and my bloods back this up by still being low what should I be pushing the Doctor to do? Increase frequence of Nebido, run another form of T alongside? What would the typical strategy be?

Nick

[HRTstudent]

Thanks, I've trawled though the Nebido related threads but couldn't see anything specific to my situation. There are though of course the references to loading at 6 weeks. My T levels though at 6 weeks were lower than at the beginning so even with this short duration between shots I can' see how a loading effect can occur if my start point is lower than what it started at.



I agree to an extent, see my earlier post though, I don't feel materially different at the 6 week mark than before starting TRT. I did feel that the lebido was increasing during the mid weeks but nothing stellar and anyway back to where it was.

At the next 8 week mark, assuming I continue to feel the same and my bloods back this up by still being low what should I be pushing the Doctor to do? Increase frequence of Nebido, run another form of T alongside? What would the typical strategy be?

Nick

If I didn't feel any better I would continue to get my T level in a good range. If it was in a good range then I would probably give it some time to "work."

If the doctor wanted to, I would probably try HCG . I've personally never taken HCG, but its worth a shot to me because in theory it makes sense. in reality, for some people it makes them subjectively worse. But you don't know until you try.

Of course, I would also be making sure my e2 was in range. I would work on T and E2 together, then move to HCG if I was going to try it and wasnt feeling better.

[BigIce]

Thanks, I've trawled though the Nebido related threads but couldn't see anything specific to my situation. There are though of course the references to loading at 6 weeks. My T levels though at 6 weeks were lower than at the beginning so even with this short duration between shots I can' see how a loading effect can occur if my start point is lower than what it started at.



I agree to an extent, see my earlier post though, I don't feel materially different at the 6 week mark than before starting TRT. I did feel that the lebido was increasing during the mid weeks but nothing stellar and anyway back to where it was.

At the next 8 week mark, assuming I continue to feel the same and my bloods back this up by still being low what should I be pushing the Doctor to do? Increase frequence of Nebido, run another form of T alongside? What would the typical strategy be?

Nick

I would not do anything different than what we all did, just follow the protocol. IT WORKS, IT REALLY DOES

[nicke1]

I would not do anything different than what we all did, just follow the protocol. IT WORKS, IT REALLY DOES

Thanks, that's what I'm hoping!! It's disconcerting though when the T results from the second bloods a 6 weeks are lower than the initial. From whatt I can see this is not typical.

[HRTstudent]

Thanks, that's what I'm hoping!! It's disconcerting though when the T results from the second bloods a 6 weeks are lower than the initial. From whatt I can see this is not typical.

Its not that uncommon actually. It is indicative of starting TRT and you simply don't have a high enough dose (assuming you did lab timing correctly).

When I started TRT, my first set of labs after starting TRT were basically unchanged.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

i dont care how long they make an ester...IMO theres no way theyd be able to get something to have stable levels for mor than 2 weeks. Why not swithc to cyp?