Labs and Dr's advice... Please check it out...

[RetSurfer]

Some advice from you guys please….

I’m 59, 6’ 4” and 198. Train 3 days a week and started eating Paleo the first week of June.

My labs and what the Dr put me on:


DIABETES EVALUATION

HEMOGLOBIN A1C 5.7 <6.0 %

INSULIN, Fasting 1.9 L 2.6 - 24.9 uIU/ml

IRON/ANEMIA EVALUATION

IRON 104 40 - 190 ug/dl

CORONARY RISK

TRIGLYCERIDES 124 <150 mg/dl
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 347 H <200 mg/dl
HDL CHOLESTEROL 60 >40 mg/dl
LDL CHOLESTEROL, calc. 262 H <100 mg/dl
CHOL/HDL RATIO 5.8 H <5.0

EEK!


THYROID TESTING

T3, FREE 2.5 1.8 - 4.6 pg/ml
T4, FREE 1.28 0.9 - 1.7 ng/dl
TSH 1.*** 0.27 - 4.2 uIU/ml

TUMOR MARKERS

PSA, TOTAL 2.180 0.0 - 4.0 ng/ml

ENDOCRINE EVALUATION

LH 5.7 1.7 - 8.6 mIU/ml
ESTRADIOL 18.3 7.6 - 42.6 pg/ml
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 767 280 - 1100 ng/dl
SEX HORMONE BIND GLOBULIN 80 10 - 80 nmol/L
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 6.71 1.6 - 22 ng/dl
CORTISOL 11.9 ug/dl


Dr. put me on Armor, B12 every other week and T-Cypt 160 mg per week to start. Plus several other supplements.

[kelkel]

Welcome Ret.

I'm still looking for the reason you're on TRT assuming these are pre-trt numbers since you still have good LH production? Am I missing something? Your LH is good (where's FSH) as is your Total T. Free T probably lower than where I'd like to see it but that can be improved by lowering your shbg level via vit D supplementation / stinging nettle, etc., or prescription Danazol. But, since you already started the T therapy it's kind of a moot point. The added T will lower your shbg and improve your free T as well. It's also going to raise your E level so keep an eye on it. 20-30 would be a good range to be in, based on how you feel. Is there a range for cortisol?

Your cholesterol needs some work. Thyroid appears ok. Better range for TSH is 0.3 - 3.0 btw. PSA is higher than I'd like to see but if you ejaculated within a couple days of the BW it can spike it up.

So, give us a little more detail on why if you don't mind! And welcome to the forum Ret! Good people willing to help. You can learn a lot here if you choose.


(vettester lurking)

[Vettester]

Ret, welcome to the forum, glad you joined!

Obviously, there's a few markers on your cholesterol numbers that probably have you concerned. It sounds like you're in fairly good shape and pretty lean, Is this a genetic related issue? High cholesterol runs heavy on my dad's side, and there's just no way around it for me. I'm lean and the diet is clean, but I still have to take a little statin to control it.

Thyroid looks good at a glance. Did your doctor give you a diagnosis for the Armour?

PSA - Not that it's off the charts, but IMO it is elevated enough to where I truly feel your doctor needs to keep a close eye on your prostate health, especially if he's introducing you to testosterone. Any family predisposition to prostate cancer?

Testosterone - Ret, I'm kind of puzzled with this one to be honest. For 59, you have some excellent pituitary function with producing LH, which in turn is signalling your testes (which also appear to be healthy) to produce that excellent total test serum score.

The part that is hindering you is your extremely high SHBG score, which will regulate (that and albumin) the amount of free & bio testosterone you are actually getting. Your free test is at .0875%. Ideally, you would want to see that between 2% to 3%. You have plenty of serum to pull from, but you are severely under utilizing it due to the high concentration of binding from the SHBG.

What you really need is to lower your SHBG and it will be like a 3x+ increase of testosterone. I'm willing to bank that you are also deficient in Vitamin D-3. Have your doctor run a lab, and then have him look at prescribing Drisdol to boost your D levels. Vitamin D is very effective with helping to reduce and normalize SHBG, and you could also look at adding a little Stinging Nettle Root on top of it.

Adding exogenous test cyp IMO isn't the solution here. All that will do is increase your serum number even higher, which it is just fine right now. Additionally, you will see your optimal LH score go in the tank, which in turn is going to stop the testicles from producing any endogenous test. From there, you will need to look at HCG, because having your nuts shrink is not a good feeling (words from the wise).

Look forward to seeing how this turns out for you. Others should also be chiming in real soon ...

[Vettester]

Had a feeling that Kelkel wasn't too far away ...

[Brohim]

Was this pre-trt? Your test numbers are way higher than mine and I am 31 and in shape.

[Vettester]

Was this pre-trt? Your test numbers are way higher than mine and I am 31 and in shape.

It wasn't clarified, but I've got to presume this is all pre-trt. I can't imagine anyone's LH level to be at that level while on TRT, unless there's some type of pituitary condition.

[RetSurfer]

Thanks Guys, its pre-T.
Definite fatigue and fog, almost non-existent libido even though GF needs servicing every day…. Sheesh!
I was adopted so don’t know history, sorry…
Dr. wants to see Free T at 25 to 40. Also wants my T3 up.
Started me on 1000mg D3 a day, Armour 30mg a day to start.
He’s an “aging Dr” trained in Cenegenics. Says he treats Symptoms vs. BW.

Thanks!

[RetSurfer]

Welcome Ret.

Is there a range for cortisol?

Your cholesterol needs some work. Thyroid appears ok. Better range for TSH is 0.3 - 3.0 btw. PSA is higher than I'd like to see but if you ejaculated within a couple days of the BW it can spike it up.

So, give us a little more detail on why if you don't mind! And welcome to the forum Ret! Good people willing to help. You can learn a lot here if you choose.


(vettester lurking)

Cortisol range 6.2 to 19.4

[RetSurfer]

I’ve been working out for 5 years and can’t gain any muscle. Did body scan (DEXA) and I need to lose 20 lbs. of fat (all around midsection) and gain 10 lbs. muscle.

[steroid.com 1]

"He’s an “aging Dr” trained in Cenegenics. Says he treats Symptoms vs. BW."

This is why you were prescribed what I will say is unnecessary treatment.

I won't go into it all as the guys above covered it but the symptoms you present could be caused by a multitude of other things.

In my opinion you are not even close to being a candidate for the protocol you are on.

In fact, you may end up worse than you are now...

Some Anti Aging Docs are great and others are out just for the buck regardless of your health.

[RetSurfer]

"He’s an “aging Dr” trained in Cenegenics. Says he treats Symptoms vs. BW."

This is why you were prescribed what I will say is unnecessary treatment.

I won't go into it all as the guys above covered it but the symptoms you present could be caused by a multitude of other things.

In my opinion you are not even close to being a candidate for the protocol you are on.

In fact, you may end up worse than you are now...

Some Anti Aging Docs are great and others are out just for the buck regardless of your health.

WOW!

Had 1 shot last week and will see him again this week before any other treatments....
That's why I posted here, I like what I've seen from you guys and will take all these comments with me!

Thank You again!!!

[steroid.com 1]

Think about it; TRT is for men who are deficient in Testosterone serum levels not just for poor libido and brain fog.

"Definite fatigue and fog, almost non-existent libido even though GF needs servicing every day…."

There are so many clinical diagnosis for the symptoms above you could right a book on it. Yes, low Testosterone levels and imbalanced hormones in general can cause these symptoms but so can your run of the mill life depression.

Everything below reads like your a 30 year old and not a man of 59. PSA is a tad high but just having sex within 48 hours of the pull can simply cause this to happen.

Thyroid is fine.
Estradiol damn near ideal.
LH production strong.
Total Test like a kid!
Free Test is a tad low but excellent for a man your age.

Who prescribes Testosterone Replacement to a man with TT of 767??? Someone who wants to take your money is who.

THYROID TESTING

T3, FREE 2.5 1.8 - 4.6 pg/ml
T4, FREE 1.28 0.9 - 1.7 ng/dl
TSH 1.*** 0.27 - 4.2 uIU/ml

TUMOR MARKERS

PSA, TOTAL 2.180 0.0 - 4.0 ng/ml

ENDOCRINE EVALUATION

LH 5.7 1.7 - 8.6 mIU/ml
ESTRADIOL 18.3 7.6 - 42.6 pg/ml
TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 767 280 - 1100 ng/dl
SEX HORMONE BIND GLOBULIN 80 10 - 80 nmol/L
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 6.71 1.6 - 22 ng/dl
CORTISOL 11.9 ug/dl

[RetSurfer]

What the Dr put me on:
Vit D3 (cholecalciferol) 1000mg a day
B12 (cyanocobalamin) injectable 1000mg every other week
Multivit 2 per day
Omega 3 oral 1000mg 2 per day
Niacin 500mg 1 ea night
DHEA 50mg 1 ea day
Armour 30mg 1 each am. He is looking to raise that to 2 after next visit
Test Cypt .08 cc of 200mg ea week

[steroid.com 1]

I am willing to bet my best porn CD that you are paying out the ass for all of those largely unnecessary supplements!

You don't need Armour and you especially don't need 200mg/wk of Test Cyp. That dosage level is at the ceiling for TRT protocols and prescribed for men clinically in the tank and poor responders.

Most TRT Docs today in the know are prescribing 60mg to 80mg / week for diagnosed Hypogonadal men (which you are not) and getting great results...and this is for men who present with suppressed serum levels.

What's going to happen is your serum levels are going to go supraphysiological and out of anything even close to normal...very anabolic.

Next will be a big increase in Estradiol as a result as there is no AI in your protocol...at least now.

With the will come Testicular atrophy as there is no HCG in your protocol and it seems that older men with HPTA suppression see the atrophy happen sooner then younger guys.

You need to read about what can happen to you when you have sustained elevated Testosterone serum levels...trust me, it's not good.

If it were me, I'd forgot this whole thing, save your money and maybe find a wellness Doctor as you are a very healthy male for your age...at least at the moment that is.

[Vettester]

Total Test like a kid!
Free Test is a tad low but excellent for a man your age.
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 6.71 1.6 - 22 ng/dl
l

GD, his free test is sitting at .087%. As we both know, given the chance to optimize our hormones, 2% to 3% would be the best range; maybe right in the middle at 2.5% would be ideal. If the OP were at 300ng on the serum with a 2.2% free test, without doubt, I think we would all tell him to seek treatment to increase his test. In this case, the OP is basically in the same boat as a guy with a 300ng/nl at 2.2%, literally same scenario when looking at the net result. However he is fortunate that his serum is already optimal (maybe even better than optimal).

I totally agree on the fact that he doesn't need testosterone treatment, as he has plenty of serum in the well. IMO, what he needs is the ability to draw more of that serum out of the well for bio available use. At 6.71ng/dl of free test, that is what I would kind of expect to see with someone in their late 50's, but I don't know if I would call it excellent. His SHBG is at 80. If he can get that down even into the 30's, he should be able to get his free test in the mid teens, which would better than double his free test, and IMO this would take him into a whole different place. Just my .02 on the matter.

And to reiterate again, I totally agree that the treatment of test is unnecessary. Any doc (again IMO) that would prescribe test to someone who has those LH levels and with that serum level is just looking to get that quick $buck$! If the doctor would just focus on lowering his SHBG, which is probably halfway related to Vit D, then he would have a patient that is capable of producing the levels that we're seeing on TRT, but completely from his own natty. Not too many people over 50 can tout that!

OP, BTW, 1,000iu of vitamin D per day will not be enough for a therapeutic dosage. Most are closer to 5,000iu. Talk to your doctor about Drisdol, which is 50,000iu per week. You can even take it for a few months to get your levels optimal, then go to a OTC product with daily dosages.

[steroid.com 1]

GD, his free test is sitting at .087%. As we both know, given the chance to optimize our hormones, 2% to 3% would be the best range; maybe right in the middle at 2.5% would be ideal. If the OP were at 300ng on the serum with a 2.2% free test, without doubt, I think we would all tell him to seek treatment to increase his test. In this case, the OP is basically in the same boat as a guy with a 300ng/nl at 2.2%, literally same scenario when looking at the net result. However he is fortunate that his serum is already optimal (maybe even better than optimal).

I totally agree on the fact that he doesn't need testosterone treatment, as he has plenty of serum in the well. IMO, what he needs is the ability to draw more of that serum out of the well for bio available use. At 6.71ng/dl of free test, that is what I would kind of expect to see with someone in their late 50's, but I don't know if I would call it excellent. His SHBG is at 80. If he can get that down even into the 30's, he should be able to get his free test in the mid teens, which would better than double his free test, and IMO this would take him into a whole different place. Just my .02 on the matter.

And to reiterate again, I totally agree that the treatment of test is unnecessary. Any doc (again IMO) that would prescribe test to someone who has those LH levels and with that serum level is just looking to get that quick $buck$! If the doctor would just focus on lowering his SHBG, which is probably halfway related to Vit D, then he would have a patient that is capable of producing the levels that we're seeing on TRT, but completely from his own natty. Not too many people over 50 can tout that!

OP, BTW, 1,000iu of vitamin D per day will not be enough for a therapeutic dosage. Most are closer to 5,000iu. Talk to your doctor about Drisdol, which is 50,000iu per week. You can even take it for a few months to get your levels optimal, then go to a OTC product with daily dosages.

And therein lies the truth to his situation.

But his AA Docs stands to make very little on this type of protocol and most likely Vette why it was not prescribed in the first place.

His protocol put his Physicians ethics into serious question IMO.

[Vettester]

And therein lies the truth to his situation.

But his AA Docs stands to make very little on this type of protocol and most likely Vette why it was not prescribed in the first place.

His protocol put his Physicians ethics into serious question IMO.

Agee totally!!

[xtitan1]

I have to disagree with y'all about the thyroid dose being unnecessary. Armour isn't that expensive and the Doc doesn't directly get any money from prescribing it anyway.

According to these charts I made based on OP's numbers and STTM's optimal ranges, he can use a small dose of Armour (exactly what he was prescribed).



Armour has few side effects, and as long as he monitors his levels to make sure he doesn't go HYPERthyroid, the very worst case scenario is he doesn't see any results and he's out of the $30 monthly copay for the script and stops after a while.

Also, I wanted to share this excerpt from Harvard Medical School's Associate Clinical Professor Abraham Morgentaler's book, Testosterone for Life:

I have mentioned already that there is uniform agreement that free T more accurately reflects the body's testosterone status than total T does, due to the fact that a large proportion of the circulating testosterone is not biologically available. Despite this fact, the familiarity that most physicians have with total T--and thus their reliance on this test--appears to frequently trump a logical conclusion when total T and free T do not agree.

Felipe's case is a perfect example of this. His total T was in the normal range, above 400 ng/dL, yet his free T was quite low, at 8.4 pg/mL (normal is > than 15 pg/mL). Many physicians are uncomfortable saying that a situation like this merits T therapy, even though they know in theory that a high SHBG can cause total T to look normal in a man with low levels of free T. It is just that many physicians are not yet comfortable enough to diagnose low T when the total T looks normal.

The bottom line is this: if a man has symptoms and has low levels of either total T or free T, he has low T, and a trial of treatment should be considered. (page 72)

That just struck me because this is OP's exact same situation. His low Free T level combined with low T symptoms I think warrants action. Which action is the question.

If there are reliable ways to reduce SHBG, that would be best and would probably result in his body making having the proper Free T levels on its own given his great Total T levels. I have 0 experience or knowledge in regards to SHBG reduction, so my comments end here.

Also take what I say with a grain of salt, as my knowledge is limited to what I read and do not have personal experience of success (yet!).

[RetSurfer]

Many times I have read about “lab ranges” not meaning JACK!
My Dr really emphasized the freeT should be 25 to 40, not what the lab says.

Now, I have serious questions on why he isn’t trying to lower my SHBG directly and will confront him on it in two days. BUT, my symptoms are real and good eating, good sleep, low stress and BP is not the reason since I’m fine in all those areas.

I’m not looking forward to weekly injections for the rest of my life but HE lives this way and if I can get into half the shape he’s in I’ll be a happy man.
His big thing is “balance”….

[steroid.com 1]

Most of us understand the differences between Total, Bio Available and Free Testosterone serum levels and their place in evaluation.

The OP's Total Testosterone levels coupled with elevated SHBG does not warrant a TRT protocol in my opinion.

I would have also like to seen a Albumin panel as well.

He's being bound-up with the elevated SHBG and as Vette and others pointed out there are other remedies to correct (other then TRT) which should be tired first and foremost. It's like "let's not fix the problem let's just add drugs"...and at a big starting dosage of 160mg/wk...not what we're about.

As far as the Armour is concerned; he may or may not bennefit from its use, and it might be worth a try, but the way I see it it's just another drug he's putting into his body that is questionable if he needs it at all.

BTW, the concept of "trialing" testosterone replacement therapies is rather odd don't you think?

This is for life and "trialing" something like this needs to be really well thought out and be supported by labs and symptoms as it's a bit much when you think that it can and will cause a man to shutdown...then what...PCT protocol's because "it didn't do anything for me?" Trialing TRT stands to cause more harm than it could good in my opinion.

I like Morgentaller, and his book is sitting right here on my desk and re-reading sections of it I can see it's already become a little dated already like him stating he likes to use an AI to control testicular atrophy...wtf?

[Hackamaniac]

Armour has no side effects, and as long as he monitors his levels to make sure he doesn't go HYPERthyroid, the very worst case scenario is he doesn't see any results and he's out of the $30 monthly copay for the script and stops after a while.

Also, I wanted to share this excerpt QUOTE]

Anything you put in your mouth can have side effects...To say armour has no side effects is not true!! Some people have reacted poorly to armour, again where do you come up with no side effects?

[lntense]

This is pre test therapy? 700s? I wish mine was.

[steroid.com 1]

^^^^Man, where are you new guys coming up with these great avi's! Love it!!!

You're right intense; when the OP starts on 160mg of Test a week he's going to go supraphysiological in no time and that has all kinds of problems in and of itself not withstanding where his Free T levels are...no man can sustain being in the 1800's or higher for any extended period of time.

[xtitan1]

@GD - If it seems like I was disagreeing with you about the advice you gave on the TRT side of things, then I mis-communicated. I think you're right, that drawing down the SHBG would be the way to go, and the testosterone therapy the Doctor started the OP on seems weird.

Definitely there are parts of that book that seem out-dated or that seem to be in conflict with what people have experienced here. I just thought that situation in the book fit real well so that's why I included it. I wasn't implying you guys hadn't read it or anything, because I actually got the suggestion for the book by one of the members here in a thread (forgot which one)!

You bring up an interesting point about "trials", as Morgentaler seems to talk about putting people on TRT/HRT and then if their symptoms don't change, stopping. He never discusses the effects or protocol for stopping TRT/HRT, which he admits in the book, suppresses the HPTA. That certainly is an important missing piece in his book.

@Hackamaniac - Fair point, I shouldn't have said "no" side effects, I meant very little. I edited to reduce confusion.

[RetSurfer]

I would have also like to seen a Albumin panel as well.

Not sure what a "Albumin Panel" is but here are more results:

COMPLETE BLOOD COUNT
WHITE BLOOD CELL 5.4 3.9 - 11.1 K/ul
RED BLOOD CELL 4.81 4.2 - 6.0 M/ul
HEMOGLOBIN 16.7 13.2 - 18.0 g/dl
HEMATOCRIT 50.2 38.5 - 54.0 %
MCV 104 H 80.0 - 100.0 fl
MCH 34.6 H 26.0 - 34.0 pg
MCHC 33.2 31.0 - 37.0 g/dl
RDW 15.8 H 11.0 - 15.5 %
PLATELET COUNT 175 140 - 400 k/ul
MPV 8.4 7.5 - 11.6 fl
URINALYSIS
COLOR YELLOW
APPEARANCE CLEAR CLEAR
pH 6.0 5 - 8
SPECIFIC GRAVITY 1.014 1.001 - 1.045
GLUCOSE NORMAL NORMAL mg/dl
KETONES 5 NEGATIVE mg/dl
BLOOD NEGATIVE NEGATIVE Ery/ul
PROTEIN NEGATIVE NEGATIVE mg/dl
BILI NEGATIVE NEGATIVE mg/dl
UROBILINOGEN NORMAL NORMAL mg/dL
NITRITE NEGATIVE NEGATIVE
LEUKOCYTES 25 NEGATIVE Leuk/ul
WBC’S 2-5 /hpf
EPITHELIAL CELLS 0-2 /hpf
GENERAL CHEMISTRY
GLUCOSE 85 65 - 100 mg/dl
BUN 14 6 - 20 mg/dl
CREATININE, SERUM 0.9 0.5 - 1.2 mg/dl
SODIUM 141 133 - 145 mmol/L
POTASSIUM 4.4 3.3 - 5.1 mmol/L
CHLORIDE 103 96 - 108 mmol/L
CO2 25 22 - 32 mmol/L
CALCIUM 9.6 8.5 - 10.5 mg/dl
TOTAL PROTEIN 7.0 6.4 - 8.3 g/dl
ALBUMIN 4.5 3.2 - 4.8 g/dl
GLOBULIN 2.5 2.1 - 3.6 g/dl

[steroid.com 1]

ALBUMIN 4.5 3.2 - 4.8 g/dl
Albumin losely binds with the receptor cells on Testosterone rendering it useless for a period of time before the bond eventually breaks and makes the Testosterone biologically available as opposed to SHBG which creates a bond that won't break rendering the Testosterone useless for pretty much good.

Both high levels of SHBG and Albumin will lower your Free Testosterone panel. The Bio-Available panel considers both Free and Testosterone bound by Albumin. Depending upon the knowledgeable Doc both have meaning where Bio-Available is probably the better of the two and provides a clearer picture.

As you can see, while your Albumin panel is not over the reference range you are certainly near the top. Coupled that with the high SHBG and now you know why your Total Test panel is very good but your Free Testosterone on the lower end.

Both SHBG and Albumin are binding to your Testosterone thereby lowering what's available for the body to use and why you feel like you do!

Both of these can be modulated and lowered which, as so well stated here by Vette and others, should take care of your problem.

HEMATOCRIT 50.2 38.5 - 54.0 %
Keep an eye on this as you don't want your Hematocrit levels to go much higher or you will end up with "thick blood" which has all its own problems and also know that if you do start on Testosterone this will go higher over time as well. Giving blood on a regular basis will lower it to more optimal levels.

[Vettester]

Agree that the thyroid medicine (IMO) is not necessary. There are indeed sides and some risks to taking it, and I personally know someone here that it caused some problems with. xtitan1, how do you know the doctor isn't getting any incentives to promote the medications? In many cases, the clinics and doctors these days are directly tied to their compounding pharmacy, and that's exactly where the money is at for them. I've personally been involved with a clinic that focuses on the meds as the cash cow. Go to AAG, Spectrum, Body Logic, and you will have no choice but to purchase your meds from their pharmacy. Not to mention they will tack on the freight and other hidden areas for more profit.

The best thing that OP has going for him is his HPTA and ability to produce an excellent amount of total serum. The doctor (Again, IMO) is going to make sure to take that away from him. Bye bye LH and naturally produced total test, hello weekly injections of cyp, and then HCG to mimic the same exact thing. Again, the only thing I see that's needed is to lower the SHBG. 160mg per week of test?? Don't doctors prescribe that when we have low testosterone? Like 100, 200, 300 type low? Hell, I don't take that much test and I have secondary hypogonadism! The OP is neither primary or secondary, BW doesn't lie!

I don't know which one is worse ... The doctors who won't give a guy testosterone when he's at a 250ng/dl score, or the ones that mill them out when you have a 750 score. They're both disturbing!

[xtitan1]

Agree that the thyroid medicine (IMO) is not necessary. There are indeed sides and some risks to taking it, and I personally know someone here that it caused some problems with. xtitan1, how do you know the doctor isn't getting any incentives to promote the medications? In many cases, the clinics and doctors these days are directly tied to their compounding pharmacy, and that's exactly where the money is at for them. I've personally been involved with a clinic that focuses on the meds as the cash cow. Go to AAG, Spectrum, Body Logic, and you will have no choice but to purchase your meds from their pharmacy. Not to mention they will tack on the freight and other hidden areas for more profit.

Short Answer: whether or not the Armour was a good or bad call is gray to me, there's arguments on both sides. Again, I think what you guys are saying about not doing the TRT and focusing on reducing SHBG makes a ton of sense.

Long Answer:

For the thyroid meds issue: I'm a big fan of the stopthethyroidmadness.com website. She also has a book out that my Doctor provided information for and is referenced in. It's not an end all be all, but I'm just saying I'm not making this up. From this page "If not on thyroid medication: ... 2) if your free T3 is mid-range or lower, and in the presence of hypothyroid symptoms, you may have hypothyroidism, no matter how low the TSH." To say this Doctor is purposely prescribing medication he knows his patients don't need is I think jumping to conclusions. Remember, T3 is really the end product here, it's what really determines what makes you feel good. I am personally being treated with Armour myself (diagnosed with Hypothyroidism 2.5 years ago), and my Doc goes by getting into those optimal ranges as well. But again, I recognize it's not black and white and perhaps the Armour was too aggressive. All I was saying is you can't conclude this guy is a quack from giving a small dose of Armour to someone who has sub-optimal FT4 and FT3 and feels tired.

As for his prescribing of the cypionate given the fact that the OP's total T was great, as well as not suggesting options for reducing the very high SHBG level to bring up the OP's free T levels, that's a different story.

Now, as far as the incentives to promote medications issue: no, I don't have definitive proof that he isn't getting incentives for prescribing Armour Thyroid indirectly through compounding pharmacies. When I said directly, I meant directly, as in he breaks federal law and is paid off by the makers of Armour (Forest Pharmaceuticals) to prescribe it to people he knows don't need it. Although I will say, if the guy was really just out to put the OP on stuff that will get him money, he'd probably go with the more expensive gels instead of injections (wayyy more cash) instead of injections, right? Or am I making assumptions. Although we can simply ask the OP if he is using a compounding pharmacy that his Doc insisted he go to (which indeed would be suspicious).

[kelkel]

A lot of very relevant posts above. To sum up, in my opinion, all the op needs is to reduce his SHBG as many of us noted. Both Vette and myself have used Drisdol with success (I still do) to bring up vit D levels. I also added stinging nettle. Dr. Crisler, as I noted above, will also prescribe Danazol in effort to lower SHBG levels. A very simple fix for a problem that has been very over-complicated. I'd strongly recommend discontinuing further T injections and approach your issue along the lines many of us have recommended.

Keep us posted please.

[steroid.com 1]

"I don't know which one is worse ... The doctors who won't give a guy testosterone when he's at a 250ng/dl score, or the ones that mill them out when you have a 750 score. They're both disturbing!"

No better words have been written.

BTW, who wants to bet if the OP gets his SHBG inline with his Free T that his Thyroid panels will adjust accordingly...any takers

[xtitan1]

BTW, who wants to bet if the OP gets his SHBG inline with his Free T that his Thyroid panels will adjust accordingly...any takers

Nope!

[Vettester]

Me agree ... The body is tenacious with restoring balance in other departments once the problem areas are discovered and addressed.

GD should capitalize if there's any takers!

[RetSurfer]

Hi guys, THANK You for all your input. I see the doctor tomorrow and will have plenty to talk about…
BUT, no one has commented on my cholesterol levels, weather their related to my hormones or not I’ve never seen anything here or else ware to indicate that. My old doctor used to tell me its hereditary and loaded me up with Statins….
Any ideas?

Thanks again

[kelkel]

Take a look at this article: http://www.livestrong.com/article/43...-testosterone/
Remember test is synthesised from cholesterol.

Ask your doc about non-statins while your there.