Due for my third Nebido shot today, still feel like hell. Should I give up?

**Renholder** · 08-30-2012, 03:33 AM

Hello all,

I`m due for my third Nebido shot today. No improvements since I started TRT, except that I`m doing OKAY in the gym, but nothing dramatic. I even got a new symptom: a heavy feeling in the head and some minor headaches, which I have never had in my entire life.

I almost feel like giving up and I don`t even know what to do next. Is there someone I could consult with online or hire? I will not get any help in this country, 100% positive.

I`m currently supposed to be applying for jobs and I`m dead broke, but I don`t even have the energy to go through the papers. I am a resourceful and smart person, but it`s no use when my body does not cooperate.

I met an incredible girl this weekend who spent the night and next day with me. Luckily, I was able to perform adequately as it was one of my good days, but the days after I`ve been almost impotent. I would really like to pursue a relationship with this girl, but I don`t have the energy or drive to do so, so I will probably have to let her go like I`ve done with so many girls the last years...

Don`t know what I want with this thread either. Just feel like talking out loud to someone who maybe understands how it is, since everyone around me says it`s "in my head".

Renholder

**edmundo22** · 08-30-2012, 08:39 AM

Sorry to hear its not working out for you just yet Ren, wish I had better advice to give to you other then hang in there and stick with it.

**Brohim** · 08-30-2012, 08:56 AM

Did you get the initial shot and the booster shot 6 weeks later?

**Renholder** · 08-30-2012, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by edmundo22

Sorry to hear its not working out for you just yet Ren, wish I had better advice to give to you other then hang in there and stick with it.

Thanks, buddy.

Originally Posted by Brohim

Did you get the initial shot and the booster shot 6 weeks later?

Yes, after 5 weeks actually.

I planned on taking the third after 8 weeks, but I forgot it, so I`m due today after 9 weeks. I don`t think my problem really is low testosterone . I had normal/high testosterone from HCG mono prior to Nebido and still no improvements. If testosterone was the issue, I`m sure I would at least see an improvement by now, but if you count the new headaches, I`m actually worse.

**xtitan1** · 08-30-2012, 10:30 AM

I've been in a similar situation for years. I have such low energy that I'm unable to do basic errands or even keep up with regular hygiene. I used to sometimes be taking two showers a day until I got sick with this.

If you keep strong and keep proactive and self-educate, you will find an answer. Never give up man. You only get one shot at life and you can't let the fact that it's 50 times as hard for you as it is for other people keep you from fighting. Your legs may have been chopped out from under you but keep f'ing crawling!

Do you have another thread somewhere where we can get your stats, situation, and blood work?

**Renholder** · 08-30-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by xtitan1

I've been in a similar situation for years. I have such low energy that I'm unable to do basic errands or even keep up with regular hygiene. I used to sometimes be taking two showers a day until I got sick with this.

If you keep strong and keep proactive and self-educate, you will find an answer. Never give up man. You only get one shot at life and you can't let the fact that it's 50 times as hard for you as it is for other people keep you from fighting. Your legs may have been chopped out from under you but keep f'ing crawling!

Do you have another thread somewhere where we can get your stats, situation, and blood work?

Thanks, man. So, your situation is unresolved as well?

I know, and I try to count my blessings, after all, life is pretty good comparatively, but this is really preventing me from having a good life. I`m merely surviving. And the worst part is not knowing what the hell it is that is wrong and if I can even get well.

I have a thread here, but it did not generate much interest. Probably since my case is a "difficult" one.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...Am-I-impatient

Thanks,

Renholder

**bass** · 08-30-2012, 11:21 AM

sorry to hear it, maybe you're just stressed because you worry too much! we will need to see complete blood work to pinpoint the problem.

**bass** · 08-30-2012, 11:25 AM

just looked at your other thread and the blood work you posted, you got pretty good responses, don't know what else to add except see another doctor!

**Renholder** · 08-30-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by bass

sorry to hear it, maybe you're just stressed because you worry too much! we will need to see complete blood work to pinpoint the problem.

Look at the link, please.

I have considered that angle myself, but quite honestly I`m 100% sure that is not the issue at all. Typically, the first thing I notice when I wake up is how zapped I am and how my body aches, all before I have even stepped out of the bed. Not to mention that I rarely have morning erections.

But there are periods where I feel normal, not fantastic, but normal/good. Had two days last week. No causality that I can follow though and it appears random, but I know that my average state is far from normal based on this.

**Renholder** · 08-30-2012, 11:35 AM

Truth be told, I don`t think there is any doctors in this country that can help me. I don`t have the money to keep fooling around with that either as I have tried so many already. I have been thinking if there is someone I could consult online out of the country that have the competance I need.

**marcus300** · 08-30-2012, 11:39 AM

Have you had a full blood work panel done, if so what are your numbers?

Nebido takes it time to work but once it does its amazing therapy.

**Renholder** · 08-30-2012, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Have you had a full blood work panel done, if so what are your numbers?

Nebido takes it time to work but once it does its amazing therapy.

Several times, but I have not been able to get any done lately because my doctor was away, so I will get a new panel on Monday including cortisol in saliva and urine.

Testosterone was already good prior to going on Nebido from HCG mono. The reason I went on Nebido in the first place, is that I had read how some people had good bloodwork on HCG, but for some reason did not reap the benefits of increased testosterone. Out of desperation, I went on Nebido and my levels were good on the last test.

I don`t doubt the efficacy of Nebido, I just think that my problem is not related to or limited to testosterone (although it was low), which is a pity, because it would be a simple solution.

**edmundo22** · 08-30-2012, 03:28 PM

I hear you on trying to find a simple solution to something that may be complex but do think raising your test level has to have some sort of benifet, on the consultation issue why not get one with Dr.Crysler?

**juice2012** · 08-30-2012, 03:39 PM

I feel like I'm in the same boat. Today marks the 3 week point for me on TRT and I feel no better. If I get anything less than 10 hours of sleep I'm dying at work all day long and my only option is to take Ritalin which makes me moody and tired when it wears off at the end of the day. I try to avoid taking it but I must carefully balance not losing my job and not feeling like shit.

I feel like I will probably up my T dose at the 6 week mark after blood work of course.

Have you had a sleep study done?

**Renholder** · 08-31-2012, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by edmundo22

I hear you on trying to find a simple solution to something that may be complex but do think raising your test level has to have some sort of benifet, on the consultation issue why not get one with Dr.Crysler?

Yes, I don`t think I want to go off testosterone now at least.

Crisler may be an option. I need to check his rates. Thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by juice2012;613***4

I feel like I'm in the same boat. Today marks the 3 week point for me on TRT and I feel no better. If I get anything less than 10 hours of sleep I'm dying at work all day long and my only option is to take Ritalin which makes me moody and tired when it wears off at the end of the day. I try to avoid taking it but I must carefully balance not losing my job and not feeling like shit.

I feel like I will probably up my T dose at the 6 week mark after blood work of course.

Have you had a sleep study done?

Well, to encourage you, 3 weeks is not a long time at all. I`m past the 4 month mark on increased testosterone.

If you do not improve, you should look into cortisol if you have not already. Mine is high in the blood, over range actually, but I`m curious if I can discover something there as the doctor have been hesitant to let me take the right tests earlier.

No sleep study. Maybe I should get that done?

**Renholder** · 08-31-2012, 03:04 AM

Current state as of writing this: aching sensation in my muscles, nausea, no energy, brain fog, difficulty concentrating and even writing this, low libido, completely limp penis this morning, zero motivation. The only thing I feel like doing is lying down, but I don`t want that either.

What the hell can it be?

I hope it is low cortisol output, because that would at least give me an answer as to what it is that is wrong. Cortisol tested high in blood in the morning, but I know it may not be accurate.

Yesterday I met a friend in the city and felt pretty much like shit, but suddenly I noticed the "sickness" let go and I felt normal for the next hours. Very weird.

**DanMan250** · 08-31-2012, 04:09 AM

Forget Crisler, I think your case is too complex. You should do a phone consult with Dr Roman Mariano. Read his old posts on meso-rx under his screen name of Marianco. His site is definitivemind.com

**Renholder** · 08-31-2012, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by DanMan250

Forget Crisler, I think your case is too complex. You should do a phone consult with Dr Roman Mariano. Read his old posts on meso-rx under his screen name of Marianco. His site is definitivemind.com

Does he offer phone consultations? I will check it out.

I know his name and have always had him in the back of my mind, but assumed it would be too expensive. Also, I assumed that testosterone would fix my problems since I had low testosterone , so I did not really think I needed any advance help. Ironically, if I had gone to him the first time, I would have saved myself a lot of money.

Thanks for the tip.

**DanMan250** · 08-31-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Renholder

Does he offer phone consultations? I will check it out.

I know his name and have always had him in the back of my mind, but assumed it would be too expensive. Also, I assumed that testosterone would fix my problems since I had low testosterone , so I did not really think I needed any advance help. Ironically, if I had gone to him the first time, I would have saved myself a lot of money.

Thanks for the tip.

He does phone consultations for educational purposes, but there is no doctor-patient relationship established. For treatment you need to have a face to face consultation with him atleast once a year. I wouldn't be concerned about the cost. This is your health we're talking about! You will spend much more time and money running around from one doctor to the next looking for solutions to your problems, when you can get the answers by going to the best.

**dec11** · 08-31-2012, 07:49 PM

im getting on great on Nebido, sometimes over thinking and worrying can bring about symptoms mate. i def noticed a big diff after my 3rd shot.

i felt as if i was dipping at weeks 9-10 so my GP has dropped the interval from 12wks to 10wks.

**Renholder** · 09-01-2012, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by DanMan250

He does phone consultations for educational purposes, but there is no doctor-patient relationship established. For treatment you need to have a face to face consultation with him atleast once a year. I wouldn't be concerned about the cost. This is your health we're talking about! You will spend much more time and money running around from one doctor to the next looking for solutions to your problems, when you can get the answers by going to the best.

Do you have experience using his services or know anyone else who have? Rates?

And will I get any treatment, diagnosis or recommendations if I only use his educational service? I already sent him an email, so I am optimistic.

Regarding money, I have already spent so much money on private health care here in Norway (we have public, but I have exhausted the private sector out of my own pocket) and I`m currently BROKE, but I suppose I will have to lend the money from someone or rob a bank. If I can finally get help, it is worth the cost.

**Renholder** · 09-01-2012, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

im getting on great on Nebido, sometimes over thinking and worrying can bring about symptoms mate. i def noticed a big diff after my 3rd shot.

i felt as if i was dipping at weeks 9-10 so my GP has dropped the interval from 12wks to 10wks.

Glad to hear it.

I am aware of the thinking and worrying, but I am quite sure that is not the case for me. I went long periods in the past not even thinking about it all and just trying to live my life, but the symptoms persisted.

**dec11** · 09-01-2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Renholder

Glad to hear it.

I am aware of the thinking and worrying, but I am quite sure that is not the case for me. I went long periods in the past not even thinking about it all and just trying to live my life, but the symptoms persisted.

it def got better for me as i went along, had my 4th shot start of Aug, but from 3rd to 4th i noticed a vast diff. before that i was feeling dodgy at around wk7 but just got on with it and my bloods at wk12 still had me within range, at the low end but still there.

i mentioned to the doc that joints were getting sore at 9-10wk, she informed the endo and they both agreed to shorten my interval to 10wks. im on a monster of a cycle atm so cant really say much about the nebido this interval but it does def gradually change for the better with each shot.

marcus300 is on it quite a long time, he'd be best to tell you when it felt just right. my only other therapy option was 250mg sust A MONTH!!!! that would have been crap lol

**BigIce** · 09-01-2012, 01:07 PM

If you are gaining weight and moody perhaps you need to look at your progestin levels

A college of mine got Prolactinoma and had all the symptoms you have.

I am not trying to scare you and I have not seen the BW results you have posted, but if it has not been looked at you should look into it.

My Nebido treatment has changed my life, but it did take time.
I am at a 9 week interval and if I get the change to ever see my doc I will request that I will be put on an 8 week interval.

Hope you will find a way to get healthy soon mate.
Keep on posting, one day someone will figure out what is needed.

**Renholder** · 09-01-2012, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by BigIce

If you are gaining weight and moody perhaps you need to look at your progestin levels

A college of mine got Prolactinoma and had all the symptoms you have.

I am not trying to scare you and I have not seen the BW results you have posted, but if it has not been looked at you should look into it.

My Nebido treatment has changed my life, but it did take time.
I am at a 9 week interval and if I get the change to ever see my doc I will request that I will be put on an 8 week interval.

Hope you will find a way to get healthy soon mate.
Keep on posting, one day someone will figure out what is needed.

I know it takes time and I was initially patient, but if it really worked, I would be at least seeing IMPROVEMENTS by now, right? Quitting testosterone is not an option now anyway as a potential shutdown would complicate things further, so I will keep using Nebido.

A prolactinoma would show elevated prolactin, no?

Elevated prolactin levels also kill libido, but since mine actually are fine, I do not think it is a prolactinoma. But I will ask my doctor to schedule me for an MRI. I have also sent a mail to Dr Mariano, so hopefully I`ll receive some help there.

Glad to hear it is working so well for you!

Regards,

Renholder

**DanMan250** · 09-01-2012, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Renholder

Do you have experience using his services or know anyone else who have? Rates?

And will I get any treatment, diagnosis or recommendations if I only use his educational service? I already sent him an email, so I am optimistic.

Regarding money, I have already spent so much money on private health care here in Norway (we have public, but I have exhausted the private sector out of my own pocket) and I`m currently BROKE, but I suppose I will have to lend the money from someone or rob a bank. If I can finally get help, it is worth the cost.

No personal experience, but i've been in correspondence with several people who have seen him for complex problems and been helped and now they are very happy. I don't what his rates are, you will have to check with his office. Can you borrow some money from your parents or other family members? It is very important that you get your health back. You can't really put a price on good health.

**Brickhouse** · 09-01-2012, 05:05 PM

Is there anyway of getting some Enth' or Cyp' as Nebido may not be for you? It is undecaonoate so very long acting, maybe something like Cyp' would be better and something like 0.5mg of Arimidex twice per week to lower your E2 levels? I am far from being any real good with TRT, but what I have read and being an ex-abuser of AAS gives me the ideas of what I have put.

**Renholder** · 09-01-2012, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by DanMan250

No personal experience, but i've been in correspondence with several people who have seen him for complex problems and been helped and now they are very happy. I don't what his rates are, you will have to check with his office. Can you borrow some money from your parents or other family members? It is very important that you get your health back. You can't really put a price on good health.

Do you mind saying what kind of complex problems and what the treatment was?

I don`t even know if he is able to help me over mail and what his "educational service" really entails.

Regarding cost, I don`t have anyone to borrow from, but I will probably work something out, depending on how much it is of course. I need my health back, if not, I`m not useful to anyone or will not be able to earn any good money anyway. So I need to get this handled.

**Renholder** · 09-01-2012, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Brickhouse

Is there anyway of getting some Enth' or Cyp' as Nebido may not be for you? It is undecaonoate so very long acting, maybe something like Cyp' would be better and something like 0.5mg of Arimidex twice per week to lower your E2 levels? I am far from being any real good with TRT, but what I have read and being an ex-abuser of AAS gives me the ideas of what I have put.

I`m not really sure, as I had good levels of testosterone on HCG alone and also good levels on the first test after starting Nebido. So, with good levels in blood, I would imagine that would conclude that Nebido does "work".

But I`m really not sure. You may very well be right.

**dec11** · 09-01-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Renholder

I`m not really sure, as I had good levels of testosterone on HCG alone and also good levels on the first test after starting Nebido. So, with good levels in blood, I would imagine that would conclude that Nebido does "work".

But I`m really not sure. You may very well be right.

imho opinion, an AI is unnecessary on nebido mate, im no doc but estro shouldnt be a concern on that dosage. my estro has come up perfect each time and at the start i had mentioned the chances of it being high with nebido, he replied that he has yet to see it high on any of the hundreds of men he's treated.

**edmundo22** · 09-02-2012, 01:13 PM

If your not seeing results soon it could be as simple as just upping the dosage, go by how your feeling, some guys may feel great @ say 600 ng/dl but I literaly felt like hell, I upped my dose and am feeling so much better.

**Renholder** · 09-03-2012, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by edmundo22

If your not seeing results soon it could be as simple as just upping the dosage, go by how your feeling, some guys may feel great @ say 600 ng/dl but I literaly felt like hell, I upped my dose and am feeling so much better.

Just a theory, but with total testosterone over 700 ng/dl and free testosterone being very good as well, I do not think increasing the dose helps considering that I don`t feel any improvements at all from doubling my levels. I may be wrong, but this is my theory. Optimizing levels is one thing, but I should at least have felt a little better. Dr Mariano says that if there are no improvements over 650 ng/dl, the real issue is not with testosterone.

How are you feeling these days? Did you not switch therapy as well? From injections to gel? Or was it opposite?

I`m getting new BW tomorrow, so hopefully I can get some answers. In particular interested in cortisol.

**Renholder** · 09-03-2012, 12:53 AM

Does anyone have experience with Shawn Bean?

He offers consulting over mail and I can afford his rates, IF I can trust that he knows what he`s doing and can be trusted. The thing is that I hear so many different opinions about him, ranging from completely clueless and irresponsible, to a brilliant genius.

Anyone?

**dec11** · 09-03-2012, 01:42 AM

are you in the UK mate? if so, they dont really delve into the other hormones, its more or less 'there is your test shot, good luck'.

**Renholder** · 09-03-2012, 07:51 AM

I`m in Norway and I think it`s the same here. My GP actually googled "testosterone " in front of my very eyes, so it`s not like most people here are at a really advanced level when it comes to hormones.

Anyway, I`m off to the lab tomorrow to get some special bloodwork that I have not been able to get earlier, including saliva and urine cortisol.

I am not quite sure if it would have been better to take my Nebido shot and then BW next week in order to get a more accurate picture of my complete hormone panel or if I can go ahead and do it now. I know that testosterone probably will come back lower, but as long as it does not affect other hormones, it does not matter.

**Renholder** · 09-05-2012, 03:09 AM

I have taken a LOT of new blood work yesterday and today. The nurses commented on it both times. Also cortisol in saliva and urine.

I hope I make some new discoveries. As of writing this, I feel pretty decent.

Will take my Nebido shot today and also start using Ovidrel.

**Renholder** · 09-14-2012, 07:50 AM

I think my new blood work is finished over the weekend. Excited to see if I can find any answers.

Lately, I`ve been thinking that perhaps my iron actually is low. As mentioned earlier in other posts, I suspected hemachromatosis back in the day with ferritin rising and almost at 700. Since the gene test came back negative, iron panel was normal and ferritin eventually dropped fast after phlebotomy, I suspect it may have been an inflammation instead.

But because of the focus on iron being too high, I never considered that my iron could actually be low. Having donated a lot of blood for the last years, my iron is now looking pretty low. Should I supplement? How much? And what really are optimal levels of iron?

I should add that in the past, before donating blood, I think my iron panel and saturation was pretty decent and I still had the same symptoms, but I had bottom range testosterone then, so that`s different.

Iron saturation 19 (15-57)
Iron 14,2 (9,0-34,0)
Iron binding capacity 74 (49-83)
Ferritin 58 (20-300)

Any opinions?

Could low iron explain why I`m hypothyroid with T3/T4 levels TOP range? Could it also explain why I`m not having benefits from TRT?

Thanks in advance,

Renholder