Estimate of total test levels

**Mario L** · 10-06-2012, 08:12 PM

If I was sitting between 900-1000 total T for the past year and stopped injections, where would you estimate my levels would on the 20th day?

**gearbox** · 10-06-2012, 08:36 PM

This calls for "how long is a piece of string"

**Times Roman** · 10-06-2012, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mario L

If I was sitting between 900-1000 total T for the past year and stopped injections, where would you estimate my levels would on the 20th day?

I would need to know what you were injecting (which esther), and the half life. From there, one can make a reasonable approximation. Not sure how accurate it would be as I would be assuming a straight line desaturation method based on the half life of the esther.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-06-2012, 10:06 PM

It all depends upon how you metabolize as every man is different; but let's just say for shits and giggles that you were injecting Test C or E weekly (dosage doesn't matter and esters are very close) with no HCG and you weren't Primary Hypogonadal; in 20 days you'd be almost totally tanked given that you were 100% HPTA suppressed and probably nearing adrenal fatigue on top of it as a result.

Tanked = Feeling like total shit and wishing to God you could get back on your protocol.

Help?

**Vettester** · 10-06-2012, 10:15 PM

On cyp or enath, I can get pretty much go to baseline at 21 days. I did it one time (never again) about 3 years ago for my GP, and I believe the serum labs were drawn on day 23. To embrace GD's verbiage, I was in the "tank" at that point. You will really feel the drop off at/around 2 weeks. By day 21, if like me, you will find a dark place with it all.

**SEOINAGE** · 10-06-2012, 10:15 PM

edit: you're right it was pointless

**steroid.com 1** · 10-06-2012, 10:33 PM

^^^^WTF is the point of that response???

**Mario L** · 10-07-2012, 06:06 AM

My local doc is taking over my care. And we decided that a baseline bloodwork would be a good idea just in case the insurance co asked for it. I was off evertthing for 21 days after being on 60mg cyp,250iu hcg and .25 adex each x2/week. By the 14 day I swear I felt like a 80 year old man. And got even worse up until the 21 day mark. Obviously my doc and I knew this and he said as soon as you get you blood work done give yourself a shot. I was just curious what everyone thought my level would be at. Ill find out in 2 weeks.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-07-2012, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Mario L

My local doc is taking over my care. And we decided that a baseline bloodwork would be a good idea just in case the insurance co asked for it. I was off evertthing for 21 days after being on 60mg cyp,250iu hcg and .25 adex each x2/week. By the 14 day I swear I felt like a 80 year old man. And got even worse up until the 21 day mark. Obviously my doc and I knew this and he said as soon as you get you blood work done give yourself a shot. I was just curious what everyone thought my level would be at. Ill find out in 2 weeks.

would be interested to see u log a little bit of how this goes for u

although im sure its gonna suck!

i would like to note that i find it funny they would consider going off test to be "baseline" considering that ur shut down from doing the test and therefore IMO itd be a false baseline. to me baseline was what it was before u took ur first shot.

**Mario L** · 10-07-2012, 09:38 AM

Yes it is a false baseline but he said sometimes the insurance wants to see that you really need the TRT. He also said if the insurance questions the TRT and asks for a recent BW it's going to show I'm hovering around 1000 and the insurance will say ok he's all better and doesn't need treatment. The insurances are funny like that.

**Brazensol** · 10-07-2012, 10:23 AM

I hope I never have to go throught this. It would surely suck. Good luck.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-07-2012, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mario L

Yes it is a false baseline but he said sometimes the insurance wants to see that you really need the TRT. He also said if the insurance questions the TRT and asks for a recent BW it's going to show I'm hovering around 1000 and the insurance will say ok he's all better and doesn't need treatment. The insurances are funny like that.

yeh its a joke. u would think theyd be more aware of reality than that.

**Mario L** · 10-07-2012, 10:56 AM

It did suck but it's over now. After 14 days I was like a grumpy old man. Very irritable. Very sore for days after excercise. Didn't even think about sex once per day. Very tired by 630 I was done ready for sleep. Even after a good night sleep still tired in the am. All is good now Just curious to see what kind of t level I was at.

**HEVEW8** · 10-07-2012, 11:10 AM

This discussion brings up a question, If you had to come off of TRT protocol, what would be the best way to do so.... slowly down the dose week by week?

**Times Roman** · 10-07-2012, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by HEVEW8

This discussion brings up a question, If you had to come off of TRT protocol, what would be the best way to do so.... slowly down the dose week by week?

you would stop. then you would aggressively pct.

but the question remains why would anyone come off trt, unless the reason they went on trt wasn't valid?

**Viking13** · 10-07-2012, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

you would stop. then you would aggressively pct.

but the question remains why would anyone come off trt, unless the reason they went on trt wasn't valid?

To play devils advocate for a sec. But maybe coming off to have another a child could be a reason.

**Times Roman** · 10-07-2012, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Viking13

To play devils advocate for a sec. But maybe coming off to have another a child could be a reason.

that could be valid reason.....

....didn't think of it.

**Brazensol** · 10-07-2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

you would stop. then you would aggressively pct.

but the question remains why would anyone come off trt, unless the reason they went on trt wasn't valid?

Sounds like he had to do it for the whims of his insurance company.

**Vettester** · 10-07-2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Viking13

To play devils advocate for a sec. But maybe coming off to have another a child could be a reason.

For this purpose, the BEST route to go IMO is just get on HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin) therapy. It's basically the exact same thing guys are doing with HCG , but the FSH analogue is also added with HMG.

If you think about, guys will come off TRT, with hopes to PCT their HPTA into producing LH/FSH, so that in turn it will signal the testes and stimulate spermatogenesis. The hormone/glycoprotein needed to achieve this is LH/FSH; primarily FSH for the fertility part of it. I would presume most secondary patients are on TRT, simply because the pituitary is non functional in this respect. This is exactly why we add HCG to our protocol, so that we can provide LH to our Leydigs, to keep the testicles operating healthy like they were when the HPTA was functioning properly. Again, HMG provides both LH/FSH. If stacked with a little HCG, you will be every bit as successful as if you were able to restart your HPTA completely.