Got some atrophy going on.

**Ricci82** · 09-26-2012, 07:15 PM

So i noticed that i got some testicular atrophy going on. Im well aware on how to fix this and i already have a appt. My question is; have any of you ever had this and do they shrink at the same rate. My right nut is smaller than my left. My left is smaller than it was 5 weeks ago but not much. Right is definetly smaller. The reason i dont have HCG prescribed is because my doc didn't think I would have atrophy with Androgel . Stupid i know. I told him I most likely would and well, here we are. Thanks.

**HRTstudent** · 09-26-2012, 07:31 PM

You can expect some atrophy. Again, everything is individual, but as far as I know it should atrophy and then reach a certain point and hold steady. It has been this way for me.

Quite frankly, some minor shrinkage doesn't exactly bother me, but I can see why it would for some people.

Different size testes really don't have anything to do with the androgel though and its just a genetic thing assuming you did not have some sort of unilateral disease or trauma.

Lots of guys use HCG , and there is plenty of anecdotes to read if you are interested. Long story of it is, for some men its a good addition to HRT, for some men it's not. No way to really know unless you try it.

**Ricci82** · 09-26-2012, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the reply. I knew this was going to happen, My doc said no it wouldnt, so he would not prescribe HCG . I said it would.We went back and forth for a few minutes. I know there are other ways to get HCG, but my job limits me to only get it prescribed. My nuts were the same size before i started the androgel .

**Vettester** · 09-26-2012, 08:39 PM

Sorry to hear this, Ricci. Makes one wonder how the guy can be licensed to give you a prescription?? Did the guy just figure your body would continue pulsing LH, as if no exogenous test was medicated?

I'll send you a PM

**ScotchGuard02** · 09-27-2012, 04:20 AM

If you're on TRT, do you really care if you atrophy? You are replacing the Test so you're bound to get some atrophy.

**steroid.com 1** · 09-27-2012, 09:18 AM

HRT, where you getting this from: "but as far as I know it should atrophy and then reach a certain point and hold steady."

Read the sticky on HCG lots of good info in there guys...things you should know.

**bass** · 09-27-2012, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

You can expect some atrophy. Again, everything is individual, but as far as I know it should atrophy and then reach a certain point and hold steady. It has been this way for me.

Quite frankly, some minor shrinkage doesn't exactly bother me, but I can see why it would for some people.

Different size testes really don't have anything to do with the androgel though and its just a genetic thing assuming you did not have some sort of unilateral disease or trauma.

Lots of guys use HCG, and there is plenty of anecdotes to read if you are interested. Long story of it is, for some men its a good addition to HRT, for some men it's not. No way to really know unless you try it.

not for me! i shrunk to the point they felt like mush, once on hCG they bounced back, then when i reduced the dose and did eod they shrunk again, now i am doing it twice a week with original dose (500iu) and they are bouncing back again, but i don't think they'll ever get to where they were!

**Hackamaniac** · 09-27-2012, 03:03 PM

I know everyone is different... I've been on trt for about 7 months without much atrophy, but i'm also only 32.

**Ricci82** · 09-27-2012, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Hackamaniac

I know everyone is different... I've been on trt for about 7 months without much atrophy, but i'm also only 32.

Ive only been on 6 weeks and im only 30. Ive read the sticky on HCG , I know its supposed to be used.

**Hackamaniac** · 09-27-2012, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ricci82

Ive only been on 6 weeks and im only 30. Ive read the sticky on HCG, I know its supposed to be used.

I haven't started hcg yet, trying to get everything else figured out. I'm on test injections and still not much atrophy... Surpised you are having problems so fast on androgel ...Good luck!

**Ricci82** · 09-27-2012, 04:33 PM

The androgel is working exceptionally well for me. I feel great, other than some mood swings. I am making huge gains in the gym, leaning out a bit. I suspect my e2 may be a little high, i have BW the third week in Oct. But yes, i was a little surprised when my wife said that they felt smaller than what they were 6 weeks ago. (not saying they were small in the first place)

**BillyBob210** · 09-27-2012, 05:11 PM

I am primary and have been on the gels for over 3 years. When I get some shrinkage, I will run some Hcg @ 300iu twice a week for two months and that keeps the boys plump for a few more months. Keep in ming that if you are primary it is just to keep them full up, secondary has much more clinical effect. At least that is how I perceive it from my readings here. Correct me if I am wrong guys!

Bill

**Brazensol** · 09-27-2012, 05:33 PM

I can't tell for sure if I have any shrinkage or not. Some days it sure seems like it but other days not so much. Anyone else have this yoyo effect going on? Before the test cyp they stayed pretty much constant in size (minus the swimming pool induced shrinkage)!

**Ricci82** · 09-27-2012, 05:39 PM

Doc is getting a call tomorrow. He should be writing a script for HCG . I already have a appt for next week but i do not want to prolong this anymore. I dont want my stones shrinking anymore.

**Vettester** · 09-27-2012, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by BillyBob210

I am primary and have been on the gels for over 3 years. When I get some shrinkage, I will run some Hcg @ 300iu twice a week for two months and that keeps the boys plump for a few more months. Keep in ming that if you are primary it is just to keep them full up, secondary has much more clinical effect. At least that is how I perceive it from my readings here. Correct me if I am wrong guys!

Bill

Bill, primary would usually indicate that there's failure at the testicular level, which would mean that the LH analogue is ineffective with stimulating the leydig cells /testes to produce natural test. If both testicles are damaged and non-responsive to LH, then HCG won't be beneficial for that situation.

**kelkel** · 09-27-2012, 06:40 PM

You guys are just nuts...

Small ones, but still nuts..

**Ricci82** · 09-27-2012, 06:57 PM

Small ones, but still nuts..

[/QUOTE]

Sorry i had to. Hahahaha

**steroid.com 1** · 09-27-2012, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Hackamaniac

I know everyone is different... I've been on trt for about 7 months without much atrophy, but i'm also only 32.

^^^^This.

It's generally thought that men <35 can go longer under HPTA suppession without seeing the neg effects on their testes. The thought is younger men have more active receptors on their leydig cells so even the minute amount of LH can keep them going just a bit longer.

Guys >35 it starts to get happen faster for the above reason only in reverse.

Make no mistake about it; if you are on any TRT protocol you will suppress/shutdown HPTA and once this happens you are causing a self induced organ shut down...your testes.

It is what it is...

HCG is the only peptide that can correct that action or else suffer the result.

The sticky gets into all the details.

**BillyBob210** · 09-28-2012, 05:13 PM

Vette,

My initial testing showed high LH and FSH with very low T and free T. Primary failure....right?. MRI showed normal pituitary function. Yet HcG inflates the boys. Testim keeps my total and free levels high normal. What am I missing here?

**LevMyshkin** · 09-29-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

You guys are just nuts...

Small ones, but still nuts..

You know, I never understood the desire to have a huge set any way. I mean, why would I want the most sensitive part of my body to be larger and thus more susceptible to impact events. I mean, it's not that I want to look like I'm smuggling marbles in a leather pouch down there or anything...

**bass** · 09-29-2012, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by LevMyshkin

You know, I never understood the desire to have a huge set any way. I mean, why would I want the most sensitive part of my body to be larger and thus more susceptible to impact events. I mean, it's not that I want to look like I'm smuggling marbles in a leather pouch down there or anything...

It's different when they shrink as apposed being small to begin with. No man wants to shrink!

**steroid.com 1** · 09-29-2012, 11:01 PM

^^^^And the scrotum can pull up real hard and tight like my 6 year old...who the hell wants that???

**FONZY007** · 09-29-2012, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

You can expect some atrophy. Again, everything is individual, but as far as I know it should atrophy and then reach a certain point and hold steady. It has been this way for me.

Quite frankly, some minor shrinkage doesn't exactly bother me, but I can see why it would for some people.

Different size testes really don't have anything to do with the androgel though and its just a genetic thing assuming you did not have some sort of unilateral disease or trauma.

Lots of guys use HCG, and there is plenty of anecdotes to read if you are interested. Long story of it is, for some men its a good addition to HRT, for some men it's not. No way to really know unless you try it.

Mine has done this.. Shrank a little an has gilded steady

**FONZY007** · 09-29-2012, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

^^^^This.

It's generally thought that men <35 can go longer under HPTA suppession without seeing the neg effects on their testes. The thought is younger men have more active receptors on their leydig cells so even the minute amount of LH can keep them going just a bit longer.

Guys >35 it starts to get happen faster for the above reason only in reverse.

Make no mistake about it; if you are on any TRT protocol you will suppress/shutdown HPTA and once this happens you are causing a self induced organ shut down...your testes.

It is what it is...

HCG is the only peptide that can correct that action or else suffer the result.

The sticky gets into all the details.

Oh man I better get ready, see doc in December might as well ask and see what he says

**steroid.com 1** · 09-29-2012, 11:43 PM

Fonz - Make sure you have the empirical evidence to prove your case in the event your Doc balks and won't provide.

Go to Dr. Crisler's website www.allthingsmale.com and see his paper on HCG ...it's old but still worth its weight in gold.

HCG is a wonderful peptide for men and for so many reasons...

**FONZY007** · 09-30-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Fonz - Make sure you have the empirical evidence to prove your case in the event your Doc balks and won't provide.

Go to Dr. Crisler's website www.allthingsmale.com and see his paper on HCG ...it's old but still worth its weight in gold.

HCG is a wonderful peptide for men and for so many reasons...

Does health insurance pick up the tab or not?

**steroid.com 1** · 09-30-2012, 11:37 AM

Probably not as it's most likely a fertility drug on most insurance plans formulary.

**Ricci82** · 09-30-2012, 07:19 PM

Other than Dr Crislers update to the HCG protocol paper, is there any other literature i can bring my Doc to sway him in the right direction?
What would be the dosage for someone taking the gel being that i apply everyday as apposed to someone that injects once a week?

**steroid.com 1** · 09-30-2012, 07:42 PM

For someone using a transdermal Crisler like to use 100iu daily of HCG . He says TD's with 100iu of HCG is his "go to" protocol.

Google HCG and Testosterone and start your own search...it's best to learn on your own with guidance here.

**FONZY007** · 09-30-2012, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

For someone using a transdermal Crisler like to use 100iu daily of HCG . He says TD's with 100iu of HCG is his "go to" protocol.

Google HCG and Testosterone and start your own search...it's best to learn on your own with guidance here.

I personally understand, been on injections for 3 years and been living with slightly smaller testicles.

Have hcg on hand, almond with the Bac water and slin pins. Was going to use 250ius a day before injection but decided to hold off

**Vettester** · 10-01-2012, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by BillyBob210

Vette,

My initial testing showed high LH and FSH with very low T and free T. Primary failure....right?. MRI showed normal pituitary function. Yet HcG inflates the boys. Testim keeps my total and free levels high normal. What am I missing here?

Bill, sorry for getting back to this party kind of late.

If you have it handy, I'd like to see exactly what the baseline numbers were for your LH and FSH? But yes, if baseline showed your LH to be high, and your total serum score was low and/or in the tank, then that would be the sign of primary hypogonadism. Of course it's good to rule out tumors, cysts, and other conditions at that point, which I think you did. If I can see your labs it will give me a better idea of what you were up against. Plus the total serum as well .... Thanks

**dec11** · 10-01-2012, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by bass

It's different when they shrink as apposed being small to begin with. No man wants to shrink!

fvck, ive a set of raisins at this stage and couldnt give a toss tbh, the javelin is still launching lol

**GreMos** · 10-01-2012, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

fvck, ive a set of raisins at this stage and couldnt give a toss tbh, the javelin is still launching lol

hhhhaaaaaaahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa

**kelkel** · 10-01-2012, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by FONZY007

Does health insurance pick up the tab or not?

If it doesn't, have your doc write a letter of medical necessity to your provider citing your need and provide evidence (paperwork, not a pic of your "boys.") Many HCG inserts now list Hypogonadism as a legitimate use. Mine does!

kel

**FONZY007** · 10-01-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

If it doesn't, have your doc write a letter of medical necessity to your provider citing your need and provide evidence (paperwork, not a pic of your "boys.") Many HCG inserts now list Hypogonadism as a legitimate use. Mine does!

kel

Thanks kel

**dreadnok89** · 10-04-2012, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

If you're on TRT, do you really care if you atrophy? You are replacing the Test so you're bound to get some atrophy.

ya its awful. there always tight, i notice more pissing at night and in general when they atrophy, ejaculating is lame and doesnt feel the same at all. and most erections feel like piss boners. thats what happened to me. the hcg worked great, but jumped up my e2 a lot. i barely have anything as it is i dont need less down there for christ sake, huge confidence killer

**Ricci82** · 10-04-2012, 01:32 PM

I have a Appt with the Doc tomorrow morning. I have DR Crislers HCG protocol printed out. I will update tomorrow.

**Brazensol** · 10-04-2012, 05:02 PM

My current doc brought up Dr. Crisler's name on my last visit. Basically called him a rogue for not following standard protocols... WOW!
So hard to find good help.

**juice2012** · 10-04-2012, 05:09 PM

That's more than my doctor had to say about him lol. I gave him all the printouts and he didn't even read them and I called him out on it.

**BillyBob210** · 10-05-2012, 05:49 PM

Thanks Vette, I will dig back in the files. I have bloodwork copies dating back to day one.

Anyway....I guess my question is does a man who is primary NEED HcG at all? I have found that it pumps the boys back up. Am I odd in this? I have no cares about fertility and such.......way past the need to have children.

I hate to keep spending the money and sticking myself if I am wasting all effort.

Bill