My Endo experience

**HEVEW8** · 11-09-2012, 07:18 PM

My primary care doctor referred me to endocrinology, so out of curiosity I went to see what he had to say. I thought it might be worth while to see if maybe my treatments could be covered under my medical plan. So from the moment he entered the room he looked at me and said, "wow, most

of my patients are skinny and weak like me." He then asked me why I was there to see him. I told him my story and he began to tell me how dangerous testosterone is and that I'm in danger of having a stroke or heart attack. His advise is for me to stop testostrone immediately and come back

later in the year after my body was back to normal so he can evaluate me to find the problem. I told him that since treatment i feel 100% better, he said, "so do people that are addicted to crack".... He looked at my blood work and said "look at your red blood count, anything over 17% is heart

attack / stroke risk" then he saw how high my hematocrite is and said, "your blood is getting thick, thats what testosterone does, your heart is working overtime to move it through your body, and your chances of stroke are very high due to clotting." I asked about my high IGF-1 and he said,"little

is known about the true effects, but they believe it can make dormant cancer cell's come to life." BTW, my wife was with me for all of this,... He then said, don't get me wrong, I do prescribe testosterone to my patients that need it, we get them back to normal range, around 400. He then said, If I

do decide to stop and come back that they would treat me for life under my coverage plan.. He then told me he was retiring in a month and that he wanted me to speak with another one of the doctors. One last thing he mentioned, he had never heard of anyone using HCG with testostrone.

So my wife and I get to the car, and my wife breaks down crying because she thinks I have

jeopardized our family and that I should stop using test and get coverage through Kaiser. The only thing that is concerning me right now is my high red blood count, I'm going tomorrow to donate blood, and I have started taking in more fluids and pedylite, along with grapefruit and a nightly baby

aspirin,.. I'm also going to drop my dose to 80mg a week in hopes of lowering red blood cells,... If I cant get it down, or continue to feel the sides effects, HBP,itchy skin, brain fog, fatigue, ringing in the ears,.. Im going to stop test.... I don't want too, but honestly, some of what the doctor said

scared the crap out of me. If it wasn't for the thick blood, I would have walked out of there laughing my ass off, but im really worried about the thick blood symptoms. What would you do?

Thanks
Ruben

**Vettester** · 11-09-2012, 09:12 PM

Ruben, gather your composure my friend. Let me ask you, as you've been a member here for quite some time ... When was the last time you heard of one (1) single HRT forum member here having a heart attack?? Don't drink the kool aid on this one.

Yes, higher red blood cell count can and does exist, but you already provided your solution. Just donate blood and ALL of that is fine, plain and simple, it's a fact. I donate approx. every 6 weeks! I only regret not doing it sooner, as I have an issue with high ferritin levels, which caused me problems in my younger years. Donating back then could have probably spared me those issues.

The best thing that endo can do for the sake of truth in medicine is to indeed retire!! Yeah, let's get the patient controlled at/around the 400ng/dl level!! LOL! We get guys on here starting TRT when they get down to 400ng/dl.

Here's the thing, each of these dill rod endos seems to have a different story. I had one that swore the number was 600ng/dl, and anything over that would cause death! Yours says 400ng/dl!! They all have their own little opinionated statement about this stuff; NONE of it supported in the real medical world. Again, it's their opinions, they can't even come together collectively with agreeing on the same story.

Guys like this are why the HRT clinics have risen and risen strong. The modern day endo reminds me of the how people acted during the Salem witch trials. When you don't have facts, and can't represent the truth, then all that is left is ignorance!

**GetItHot** · 11-09-2012, 10:22 PM

Donate blood and move on. We're all going to get cancer. Deal with it.

**steroid.com 1** · 11-10-2012, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by Vettester

Ruben, gather your composure my friend. Let me ask you, as you've been a member here for quite some time ... When was the last time you heard of one (1) single HRT forum member here having a heart attack?? Don't drink the kool aid on this one.

Yes, higher red blood cell count can and does exist, but you already provided your solution. Just donate blood and ALL of that is fine, plain and simple, it's a fact. I donate approx. every 6 weeks! I only regret not doing it sooner, as I have an issue with high ferritin levels, which caused me problems in my younger years. Donating back then could have probably spared me those issues.

The best thing that endo can do for the sake of truth in medicine is to indeed retire!! Yeah, let's get the patient controlled at/around the 400ng/dl level!! LOL! We get guys on here starting TRT when they get down to 400ng/dl.

Here's the thing, each of these dill rod endos seems to have a different story. I had one that swore the number was 600ng/dl, and anything over that would cause death! Yours says 400ng/dl!! They all have their own little opinionated statement about this stuff; NONE of it supported in the real medical world. Again, it's their opinions, they can't even come together collectively with agreeing on the same story.

Guys like this are why the HRT clinics have risen and risen strong. The modern day endo reminds me of the how people acted during the Salem witch trials. When you don't have facts, and can't represent the truth, then all that is left is ignorance!

^^^^So well stated and compassionate as well.

Follow what the wise one above said...it's the best advise you can get without spending a dime!

**HRTstudent** · 11-10-2012, 01:34 AM

That doc sucks.

But to be fair, high hematocrit is a legit concern. You need to lower the dose and/or donate blood. I'd probably opt for both if your T doesn't drop too much and you still feel good.

But if you ignore the hematocrit you are indeed making your heart work harder. I'm not sure how much the aspirin will help, but at best I would only use that until I donated blood. Aspirin won't really be more than a bandaid here.

**HEVEW8** · 11-11-2012, 08:48 AM

Thank you for the advise guys, I did my first sub Q injection this morning with a 1/2 cc insulin syringe, I filled it to 20 mark which I believe is 40mg of test cyp and injected ever so slowly... I have been hydrating like a mofo, I actually feel better, the high blood pressure is dropping and the flushing and itchy skin has gone away. I did catch a cold from

my wife and the symptoms of that have been plugged up ears stuffy head and mucus in the mornings which don't help when I'm trying to evaluate my health. I'm still on the fence about stopping my TRT, I feel like I'm walking on egg shell's, constantly worried about not having too much iron, or salty food's,... I wish there was a way to check my

hematocrit levels daily, that would give me piece of mind that my efforts are working and not just going off how I feel.... So here is the million dollar question for you, how long do I wait to check my levels again, and if the blood is still to thick and I decide to stop treatment what is the best way to come off....

Thank you all for your knowlege!

Ruben

**kelkel** · 11-11-2012, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by HEVEW8

Thank you for the advise guys, I did my first sub Q injection this morning with a 1/2 cc insulin syringe, I filled it to 20 mark which I believe is 40mg of test cyp and injected ever so slowly... I have been hydrating like a mofo, I actually feel better, the high blood pressure is dropping and the flushing and itchy skin has gone away. I did catch a cold from

my wife and the symptoms of that have been plugged up ears stuffy head and mucus in the mornings which don't help when I'm trying to evaluate my health. I'm still on the fence about stopping my TRT, I feel like I'm walking on egg shell's, constantly worried about not having too much iron, or salty food's,... I wish there was a way to check my

hematocrit levels daily, that would give me piece of mind that my efforts are working and not just going off how I feel.... So here is the million dollar question for you, how long do I wait to check my levels again, and if the blood is still to thick and I decide to stop treatment what is the best way to come off....

Thank you all for your knowlege!

Ruben

Sorry for your anxiety over this. Remember, even people not on HRT can have issues with Hemo/Hema levels. Keep drinking your fluids, donate and retest in a couple weeks. All meds can have side effects that need to be dealt with. This is one for our chosen medicine. You will be just fine. Educate the wife to all the facts here. Not just what the "Dill Rod" Doc (quoting vette) so ridiculously threw out.

Think about the opposite. Being a young man living with the testosterone level of an old man may be a bit more difficult than giving blood every few months, right!