Is there an optimal time to have bloodwork done?

[killergoalie]

Just wondering if there's an optimal time to have blood work done so that the results show either the highest, or lowest levels for both Testosterone, and Estradiol. Or does it not make any difference? I don't mean time of day, I mean time following your last T injection, and/or A.I. dose.

[kelkel]

The optimal time is while your working so you get paid while your there! But seriously, first thing in the morning as you'll be fasting and right before you T injection. Your doc should be astute enough to factor everything else in. But in case he's not it's best as referenced above so the doc doesn't panic with a high reading and make a drastic, uneccessary change not considering relevant factors, e.g. peak from injection, half-life, etc.

[jm100]

As far as I know, most doctors just have you do bloodwork in the morning before your next injection so they can see your 'low point' (so, if you injected every Monday you'd get blood done Monday morning before you inject)

I'm a bit curious how much of a 'low' this is for people who pin every 3 days (since test cypionate tends to peak at 48-72 hours depending on different variables, it seems like you might be at your high point instead of a low right?) but I'm not really sure how that works

[killergoalie]

Thanks for the replies.

Just a note to how different lengths of time between your last injection, and getting BW done relate to the results...(Purely unscientific of course)

But On Nov 24th I had BW done at 11:30 A.M. which was 37 hours since my last Test-Cyp injection, and my TT level was 570.6 ng/dl.

On Dec 5th, I had BW done at 11:30 A.M. which was 21 hours since my last Test-Cyp injection (both were for the same amount of 40mg), and my TT level was 412.1 ng/dl. Don't know what that really means, but just thought it might be of some interest.

My E2 levels on both days were 92.6 pg/ml on Nov 24th, and 67 pg/ml on Dec. 5th. Just for reference.

[kelkel]

As far as I know, most doctors just have you do bloodwork in the morning before your next injection so they can see your 'low point' (so, if you injected every Monday you'd get blood done Monday morning before you inject)

I'm a bit curious how much of a 'low' this is for people who pin every 3 days (since test cypionate tends to peak at 48-72 hours depending on different variables, it seems like you might be at your high point instead of a low right?) but I'm not really sure how that works

Pretty much the point. You will test at and maintain at or near peak levels most of the time. An astute doc can gauge peaks and valleys.

[killergoalie]

So basically if injecting 3 x per week...every 56 hours or so, there's no really "best" time to do BW so that you get the highest reading/level possible? Just to help boost one's ego, and keep them from feeling down.

[kelkel]

Not unless you can time your peak based on your own metabolism. Bit difficult, right? Don't get stuck on a number. Base things on how you feel!

[killergoalie]

Not unless you can time your peak based on your own metabolism. Bit difficult, right? Don't get stuck on a number. Base things on how you feel!

Good point! Trouble is, I usually feel the same no matter what. Although I have noticed that I have a bit more energy lately...even though my TT levels have dropped. Maybe it's due to my lowering E2 level.

[kelkel]

Killer what is your entire protocol?

[killergoalie]

Killer what is your entire protocol?

Sunday 7 A.M. 40mg Test-Cyp SubQ
Monday 7 A.M. .5 mg Arimidex
Tuesday 3 P.M. 40mg Test-Cyp SubQ
Wednesday 3 P.M. .5 mg Arimidex
Thursday 11 P.M. 40mg Test-Cyp SubQ
Friday 11 P.M. .5mg Arimidex


Times may vary a bit, but I try and keep them on the same schedule as best as I can.

I mentioned hCG to my Endo in March, and he said not at this time, I'd like to get your other levels within "normal" range first. One thing at a time. he said.

[kelkel]

Ok.

1. Why 3 injections pw instead of 2?
2. 1.5mg of adex pw? That's alot. Consider people cycling at 500mg Test per week the normal dose is .25 EOD.
3. I don't believe that is a sensitive estrogen assay, correct?
4. Stats: Height, weight, estimated BF%

Your TT is low in my opinion based on what your injecting and I'm curious what the cause is.

[bass]

that is allot of AI!

[killergoalie]

Ok.

1. Why 3 injections pw instead of 2?
2. 1.5mg of adex pw? That's alot. Consider people cycling at 500mg Test per week the normal dose is .25 EOD.
3. I don't believe that is a sensitive estrogen assay, correct?
4. Stats: Height, weight, estimated BF%

Your TT is low in my opinion based on what your injecting and I'm curious what the cause is.

1) Well I was just going according to Dr. Crisler's suggestion that more frequent injections per week offer a more sustained level of T, and less of a "rollercoaster" effect.

2) Well my E2 level is so high, and I want to get it down A.S.A.P., plus I was told by several people that taking Arimidex 24 hours after each injection was a very good strategy. Also it's in capsule form, so I can't split it in half. (. 5mg per capsule, and I don't really feel like breaking them apart, measuring the powder etc.)

3) Unfortunately it's not the sensitive estrogen assay. That's not available here in Vancouver, B.C. Canada, and I can't afford to drive to the U.S. for the sensitive assay test. I was also told that as long as the test I do take has a specific range for males...which it does, and with levels as high as mine, it really doesn't make that much of a difference.

4) 6' 1", 352 lbs. (I've lost 8 lbs. since Sunday) BF % approx 30%. I have a beer belly...even though I don't drink, man boobs, and fat around my outer chest, and back.

[kelkel]

1) Well I was just going according to Dr. Crisler's suggestion that more frequent injections per week offer a more sustained level of T, and less of a "rollercoaster" effect. Understood and that's fine. Just twice per week will work just as well and wouldn't it be nice to inject less?

2) Well my E2 level is so high, and I want to get it down A.S.A.P., plus I was told by several people that taking Arimidex 24 hours after each injection was a very good strategy. Also it's in capsule form, so I can't split it in half. (. 5mg per capsule, and I don't really feel like breaking them apart, measuring the powder etc.) Yes, 24 hrs after injection is appropriate, but....to a point. Doc can't write you for 1mg tabs?

3) Unfortunately it's not the sensitive estrogen assay. That's not available here in Vancouver, B.C. Canada, and I can't afford to drive to the U.S. for the sensitive assay test. I was also told that as long as the test I do take has a specific range for males...which it does, and with levels as high as mine, it really doesn't make that much of a difference. Can you use a private lab to get the sensitive assay done? You need to know exactly where your at the the sensitive assay is the way to go. Especially when your having E issues.

4) 6' 1", 352 lbs. (I've lost 8 lbs. since Sunday) BF % approx 30%. I have a beer belly...even though I don't drink, man boobs, and fat around my outer chest, and back.

Ok. You can change that, right! With the extra BF your converting T to E heavily which exacerbates the problem.



In bold above...

[killergoalie]

Ok. You can change that, right! With the extra BF your converting T to E heavily which exacerbates the problem.



In bold above...

Yeah, twice a week to inject would be nice, although I'd have to buy a whole new set of syringes since the ones I have only go up to 50mg, and I'd need 60mg per injection...unless I guestimate the other 10 mg per.

Dr. can't prescribe me ANY arimidex. He claims he'd lose his license. Which is why I had to go to "alternative" sources. He even told me that if I could get some Arimidex on the "black market" to go ahead. All other Dr.s I've asked for a prescription, have told me the same thing about them losing their license if they'd write me a prescription.

We don't have private labs here in B.C.. I've phoned every lab in the city of Vancouver...2nd largest city in Canada btw, and the surrounding area, and not one has even heard of the "sensitive assay" Estradiol test. A few have different ref. ranges...most are < 156 pmol/L, One other one is <200 pmol/L, and one is <220 pmol/L. All are ranges of the test for adult males.

I'm doing my best to lower my BF, and just got my sleep apnea under control with CPAP therapy. FINALLY have some energy. Have completely changed my diet. But up until now I honestly had no energy to even get out of bed per se. Plus with my hormones so out of whack, it's played havoc on my Leptin levels...I am severely Leptin Resistant, so I'm working on becoming Leptin sensitive once again, which should help me in the weight loss situation.

Now with my E2 level FINALLY going down, it's given me incentive to keep working as hard as I can. When it was continually going up, regardless of what I was doing, I basically thought, "Why bother? If I'm doing as much as I am able to, following the recommended protocols etc. yet my body is basically saying, "screw you", why bust my ass, when my body isn't helping itself?"

But now I am feeling positive, and don't want things to start going downhill again.

Just wondering if changing my Test-Cyp dosage to 2x per week @ 50mg, followed 24hrs later with .5mg of Arimidex would have any noticeable effect, or make any noticeable difference in my levels?

[kelkel]

Try it and see. As I stated, one less day injecting right!

Don't let things go downhill. There is a light at the end of the tunnel with TRT and it's not always a train. All this takes time, hence the term we so often hear around here: "It's a journey, not a sprint." We've all had our individual hurdles to overcome. Some easier than others. For example, my journey started with a small tumor at the base of my brain. Not fun when you get such a diagnosis. But you know what? You just keep moving. It all gets better!

You'll be fine. Keep positive and work toward better health! We got your back here!

kel

[killergoalie]

Try it and see. As I stated, one less day injecting right!

Don't let things go downhill. There is a light at the end of the tunnel with TRT and it's not always a train. All this takes time, hence the term we so often hear around her: "It's a journey, not a sprint." We've all had our individual hurdles to overcome. Some easier than others. For example, my journey started with a small tumor at the base of my brain. Not fun when you get such a diagnosis. But you know what? You just keep moving. It all gets better!

You'll be fine. Keep positive and work toward better health! We got your back here!

kel

Thanks for the encouragement, Kel. Much appreciated.

Sorry to hear about your tumor...hope things are under control for you now.

Oh I'll be doing my best to keep moving forward.

I have more bloodwork scheduled for later this month, so perhaps I'll stay on the 3x per week injection/arimidex protocol until then, so that my E2 levels fall even more, then after the bloodwork, and hopefully my E2 levels will have fallen within range, so then I can go to twice a week injections/arimidex. Or even twice a week injections, and once a week arimidex so that my E2 levels don't fall too low.

Or maybe I'll take my 3rd scheduled injection for this week tonight, then on Sunday begin a twice weekly regimen of both Test-Cyp, and Arimidex. Sundays @ 9:00 A.M. and Wednesdays @ 9:00 P.M. followed 24 hours later of each by .5mg of Arimidex.

One more thing if you don't mind, but once my E2 level is at a good level, how should I dose the Arimidex so that it doesn't go down too low, but also doesn't begin to rise again too much?

Thanks again.

[JD250]

KG, if I've learned anything about TRT it would be patience, keep up the good work bro and stay after it the best you can, in a year you'll look back and be thankful you did. It isn't always easy but it does get better and easier with time and experience. The only way to keep control over your E2 in the beginning stages is to have regular blood work done as you lose weight and put on muscle everything in your body changes so stick with it.

[killergoalie]

KG, if I've learned anything about TRT it would be patience, keep up the good work bro and stay after it the best you can, in a year you'll look back and be thankful you did. It isn't always easy but it does get better and easier with time and experience. The only way to keep control over your E2 in the beginning stages is to have regular blood work done as you lose weight and put on muscle everything in your body changes so stick with it.

Thanks for the encouragement, JD. Oh I plan on sticking with it, trust me.

The trouble is, I'm very emotionally based. In other words, if I get "bad" news, such as having such high E2 levels, etc, it gets me depressed, and I don't feel like doing anything. i.e. working out, and I get the attitude of, "f**k it, why bother?!" But when I get "good" news, or something good happens, it gives me more inspiration to continue, and try even harder. So when I saw yesterday that my E2 levels have dropped quite a bit, that really inspired me to continue, and as I said, try even harder.

I've changed my diet and am eating super clean. Getting plenty of sleep now that my sleep apnea is under control, so things are starting to move it seems in the right direction.

I've long forgotten about wanting to feel as if I'm 25 again, like all the benefits of TRT threads alll claim will happen. Maybe it does eventually, but the way a lot of them put it, it'll happen almost overnight. So a person thinks OMG jab that needle in my ass, and tomorrow I'll feel incredible!! But when it doesn't happen, and a person comes back to reality, it can be a bit depressing at the start. It's only human nature.

So yeah, I have learned to be patient...except that I want my E2 levels to get to within a good range ASAP, but as far as everything else goes, I know this is for life, so basically a never ending marathon, and not an overnight sprint. One step at at time.

As far as my injection protocol goes, I think I will begin 2x a week injections (SubQ still) instead of 3 x per week, along with 2x per week of taking arimidex, and see how that goes until my next blood work in a few weeks. This will cause me to have to lower my weekly dose of Test-Cyp to 100mg instead of 120mg, so I'll see how much of an effect, if any, that has on my levels.

[JD250]

I hear ya bro, it's human nature to get depressed when things aren't better immediately, stay on top of the blood work and the diet/exercise and it will all be fine in the long run, we have ALL had our down moments.

[killergoalie]

Thanks again for the encouragement, JD. I just began a Leptin Reset, and eating an Epi-Paleo diet, and so far I feel amazing! Have lost 8 lbs. since Sunday, eating plenty of protein, very few carbs, and so far so good. I'm not going to look back.

Best of luck on your journey as well.