Possible candidate for trt after stopping competitive bodybuilding. With labs.

[Jon1000]

I am 30 year old male been using AAS for about two years and have been clean for almost two years now in fact April 2013 will exactly two years off all steroids. Always ran pct.

My current blood work is extremely concerning to me as I am having weird symptoms such as poor climax, vision problems and over lack of drive. Just do not feel the same don't know if it is hormonal or in my head?

Current taken in 12/12/2012

TESTOSTERONE, TOT.,S. 356.3 249.0-836.0 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE, FREE, SERUM 7.88 8.80-27.00 pg/mL
% FREE TESTOSTERONE 2.2 2.0-4.8 %
FSH 4.9 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
LH 6.0 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
ESTRADIOL 24.82 7.63-42.60 pg/mL
PROLACTIN, SERUM 12.7 4.0-15.2 ng/mL
SEX HORM.BIND.GLOB. 37 10-57 nmol/L
T3, FREE (FT3) 2.9 2.5-4.3 pg/mL
THYROXINE, FREE (FT4) 1.26 0.83-1.62 ng/dL
TSH 1.950 0.270-4.200 uIU/mL
25OH, VITAMIN D 12.9 32.0-100.0 ng/mL


TESTOSTERONE, TOT.,S. 423.5 249.0-836.0 ng/dL taken in 06/04/2011

Please help in any way possible. My current Doc put me on vitamin d3 at 5000IU and referral to urologist. Which I will be seeing sometime next week.

[HealthyMan]

Jon,

First off, welcome to the forums! Your blood work would seem that you are a healthy male with a limited T production. Given that you have a history with AAS then your results indicate a few things. Your Free T is just below the standard but lets remove the fact that there is a range. You feel like sh!t and given it is below that range then that tells me your body doesn't really know what to do with what Free T you have. I am guessing that your Vitamin B levels are in the tank as well. Your Total T is low but more history would have to be revealed to give reason.

Sounds like you are a candidate but do you have any history with testicle injury? Did you ever get results before your 6/4/11 blood work? When did you feel the best and what was your protocol?

[Jon1000]

Jon,

First off, welcome to the forums! Your blood work would seem that you are a healthy male with a limited T production. Given that you have a history with AAS then your results indicate a few things. Your Free T is just below the standard but lets remove the fact that there is a range. You feel like sh!t and given it is below that range then that tells me your body doesn't really know what to do with what Free T you have. I am guessing that your Vitamin B levels are in the tank as well. Your Total T is low but more history would have to be revealed to give reason.

Sounds like you are a candidate but do you have any history with testicle injury? Did you ever get results before your 6/4/11 blood work? When did you feel the best and what was your protocol?

results prior 6/4/11 was a few months after stopping test e at 500mg/week. I did standard pct with Clomifene at 50mg and around april 2011 and took blood at 6/4/11 which returned test lvl of 423 felt pretty decent and fast forward to 2012 I started getting weird symptoms. Throat pain/eye pain and just over drained feeling. One thing that really increased is my sleeping habits I was able to get really good sleep which when cycling I had terrible sleep.

I do not or at lease do not think I have any testicle injuries.

I felt pretty good at 500mg a week of test but that is bodybuilding cycle and I do not want to cycle anymore I looking to become completely natural and hopefully return my hormonal balance and If not get on trt also would love to have a child with my wife before doing trt.

thanks healthyman for taking your time to help me out.

[steroid.com 1]

I need to see more; not enough here.

Did you get a CBC and General Chem run?

If so, please post.

Prolactin is trending to the higher end of the reference range.

For some strange reason it almost looks like you're Primary...but everything else is normal.

Do you have Cortisol lab?

You're symptoms could point to something more pathological than associated to your past aas use.

Get cold easily? Hands cold? Sleep suck? How does salt taste to you? Get tired in the middle of the day for no reason?

Tell me about your lifestyle; are you stressed over anything? Type of work? Training? Diet?

Take this test and tell me how you fair: http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/take-t...l-fatigue-quiz

[Jon1000]

Lab: CBC w/DIFF, PLATELET CT.
Name Value Reference Range
MPV 10.2 8.2-11.9 fL
PLATELET COUNT 231 144-400 x10(3)/uL
IMMATURE GRANULOCYTES 0.0 0.0-1.6 %
BASOS 0.6 0.0-2.0 %
EOS 2.9 0.0-8.0 %
LYMPHS 30.0 12.0-48.0 %
MONOS 9.2 0.0-13.0 %
POLYS 57.3 36.0-78.0 %
RDW 13.4 10.9-16.9 %
MCH 31.7 25.0-34.1 pg
MCHC 34.8 29.0-35.0 gm/dL
HCT 40.0 39.3-52.5 %
MCV 91.1 80.0-100.0 fL
HGB 13.9 12.3-17.0 gm/dL
RBC 4.39 4.20-5.90 x10(6)/uL
WBC 4.87 3.40-11.80 x10(3)/uL

no colds for a year now.
no cold hands
sleep is awesome right now have no clue why.
Salt tastes like salt.
I don't get tired in the middle of the day.
work full time bartender
training almost no training just some snowboarding here and there.
diet I eat really clean but sometimes have junk food.

took the test and I faired pretty well no adrenal fatigue but can you really tell just from an online form.

[steroid.com 1]

I'd still investigate deeper, men 30 years old who are otherwise healthy shouldn't have testosterone serum levels like that of an 80 year old.

Something is holding it down but you're not HPTA suppressed and no adrenal fatigue.

There's something else going on...

[kelkel]

Agree GD. Leaning toward primary or partial primary at the moment. Still missing cortisol aren't we? And I don't think 5K D3 will do it for you. I'd up it a bit more and test it on your next BW.

[steroid.com 1]

kel, he should be producing more and he's not yet everything else looks pretty normal.

I thought possibly adrenal fatigue but looks like it's not...still want to to see cortisol.

He looks primary but the past aas use still has me thinking it's something else.

This is a good case.

Like to hear from Vet and HRT as well.

[Jon1000]

Agree GD. Leaning toward primary or partial primary at the moment. Still missing cortisol aren't we? And I don't think 5K D3 will do it for you. I'd up it a bit more and test it on your next BW.

yeah that will be terrible from what I understand about primary is that your gonads are dead right?

[steroid.com 1]

yeah that will be terrible from what I understand about primary is that your gonads are dead right?

Yes.

But there are conditions that can cause that to happen.

Let's get more opinions first before we go there...

[Jon1000]

Yes.

But there are conditions that can cause that to happen.

Let's get more opinions first before we go there...

Thanks gd.

btw my climax feels like I am shooting blanks. Just no feeling to it. Wife really worried about me.

Just out of curiosity If and when I start TRT will the feeling of normal climax come back or is that something else entirely.

[HealthyMan]

Jon,

I'm by no means an expert but I was going down that path of something is up with your gonads. Kel and GD are on it!

[Jon1000]

Jon,

I'm by no means an expert but I was going down that path of something is up with your gonads. Kel and GD are on it!

Also I wanted to mention each time I use clomid it raises my test levels pretty good. Why would that be if I am primary?

[HealthyMan]

The experts may have a more detailed explanation but as far as I know, Clomid promotes the release of hormones. It also stimulates your thyroid. Which is similar to how hCG keeps our testicles active and not completely shut down.

[kelkel]

yeah that will be terrible from what I understand about primary is that your gonads are dead right?

It's not all or nothing. There are degrees...

[M302_Imola]

kel, he should be producing more and he's not yet everything else looks pretty normal.

I thought possibly adrenal fatigue but looks like it's not...still want to to see cortisol.

He looks primary but the past aas use still has me thinking it's something else.

This is a good case.

Like to hear from Vet and HRT as well.

I didn't see where they tested reverse T3 so how can you rule out adrenal fatique?

OP, cortisol looks to be on the high end which could be the culprit but on the plus side your LH looks to be on the higher end which is good as your HPTA isn't shutdown and still making endogenous test. I think your SHBG is a bit high and if you could lower this (supplementing w/ 8-10K iu D3 every day) your bioavailabe test would be much better.

[Jon1000]

I didn't see where they tested reverse T3 so how can you rule out adrenal fatique?

OP, cortisol looks to be on the high end which could be the culprit but on the plus side your LH looks to be on the higher end which is good as your HPTA isn't shutdown and still making endogenous test. I think your SHBG is a bit high and if you could lower this (supplementing w/ 8-10K iu D3 every day) your bioavailabe test would be much better.

i will ask for cortisol test and reverse t3 test will also get more blood work in the coming weeks after using vit d3. This time i will have blood drawn at 9am in morning as the current labs i took they were around 2pm and i was stressed out beyond belief.


also getting Semen Analysis in the coming days will do that help with my overall picture on how my gonads are working?

[M302_Imola]

i will ask for cortisol test and reverse t3 test will also get more blood work in the coming weeks after using vit d3. This time i will have blood drawn at 9am in morning as the current labs i took they were around 2pm and i was stressed out beyond belief.


also getting Semen Analysis in the coming days will do that help with my overall picture on how my gonads are working?

sounds like a plan, keep us updated

[Jon1000]

also is giving blood when on trt something that has to be down or can it be managed with lower dosage etc?

[kelkel]

It all depends on how your body responds to therapy. Some people don't have to, some do. Keep in mind it really is a healthy thing to do both for you and society.

[steroid.com 1]

I didn't see where they tested reverse T3 so how can you rule out adrenal fatique?

OP, cortisol looks to be on the high end which could be the culprit but on the plus side your LH looks to be on the higher end which is good as your HPTA isn't shutdown and still making endogenous test. I think your SHBG is a bit high and if you could lower this (supplementing w/ 8-10K iu D3 every day) your bioavailabe test would be much better.

I went down this path:

no colds for a year now.
no cold hands
sleep is awesome right now have no clue why.
Salt tastes like salt.
I don't get tired in the middle of the day.
work full time bartender
training almost no training just some snowboarding here and there.
diet I eat really clean but sometimes have junk food.

took the test and I fared pretty well no adrenal fatigue but can you really tell just from an online form.

He took a very thorough online adrenal fatigue and renal fatigue test and he did well.

Not sure what RT3 tells us re adrenal fatigue other than he may or may not be in a state of hypothyroidism...which I doubt.

It's something else...

[Jon1000]

I went down this path:

no colds for a year now.
no cold hands
sleep is awesome right now have no clue why.
Salt tastes like salt.
I don't get tired in the middle of the day.
work full time bartender
training almost no training just some snowboarding here and there.
diet I eat really clean but sometimes have junk food.

took the test and I fared pretty well no adrenal fatigue but can you really tell just from an online form.

He took a very thorough online adrenal fatigue and renal fatigue test and he did well.

Not sure what RT3 tells us re adrenal fatigue other than he may or may not be in a state of hypothyroidism...which I doubt.

It's something else...

will semen analysis help? Give us a better picture?

[M302_Imola]

I went down this path:

no colds for a year now.
no cold hands
sleep is awesome right now have no clue why.
Salt tastes like salt.
I don't get tired in the middle of the day.
work full time bartender
training almost no training just some snowboarding here and there.
diet I eat really clean but sometimes have junk food.

took the test and I fared pretty well no adrenal fatigue but can you really tell just from an online form.

He took a very thorough online adrenal fatigue and renal fatigue test and he did well.

Not sure what RT3 tells us re adrenal fatigue other than he may or may not be in a state of hypothyroidism...which I doubt.

It's something else...

Oops sorry gdevine, I must have overlooked that. You're right, seems like we can rule out adrenal fatique. My doc said RT3 can be a good indicator of overtraining which could lead to adrenal fatique, but in the OP's case he's not really working out or active (other than snowboarding). Good catch!

[Jon1000]

Well things have gone from bad to worse for me. I have the worst flu cold infection in my life which has been going on for 6 days now. My test levels dropped and the only good news I have is the semen labs came back great count was 222m with normal volume motility and morphology. I am completey stumped on what do with myself. Doc's wants to starts hcg therapy or full blown trt.

Please help brother out.

Labs for march 2013.

TESTOSTERONE, TOT.,S. 251.5 249.0-836.0 ng/dL
ESTRADIOL 14.80 7.63-42.60 pg/mL
DHEA SULFATE 437 See Below ug/dL
FOLIC ACID 8.07 >5.38 ng/mL
VITAMIN B12 466 211-911 pg/mL
TSH W/RFX TO FREE T4 2.030 0.270-4.200 uIU/mL

Name Value Reference Range
WBC 11.29 3.40-11.80 x10(3)/uL
RBC 4.51 4.20-5.90 x10(6)/uL
HGB 14.4 12.3-17.0 gm/dL
HCT 40.5 39.3-52.5 %
MCV 89.8 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 31.9 25.0-34.1 pg
MCHC 35.6 29.0-35.0 gm/dL
RDW 13.4 10.9-16.9 %
POLYS 83.4 36.0-78.0 %
LYMPHS 7.8 12.0-48.0 %
MONOS 7.3 0.0-13.0 %
EOS 0.9 0.0-8.0 %
BASOS 0.4 0.0-2.0 %
IMMATURE GRANULOCYTES 0.2 0.0-1.6 %
PLATELET COUNT 223 144-400 x10(3)/uL
MPV 10.3 8.2-11.9 fL

[Trific]

I'm thinking that maybe you could stay on clomid or hcg as a monotherapy until you knock up the wife and then possibly go on TRT when she is doing well. FT3 looks low to me, but someone said that clomid boosted the thyroid so maybe you could wait on supplementing the thyroid till after you get going on TRT. Estradiol looks low to me right now.

Curious to see other views.

[Jon1000]

I'm thinking that maybe you could stay on clomid or hcg as a monotherapy until you knock up the wife and then possibly go on TRT when she is doing well. FT3 looks low to me, but someone said that clomid boosted the thyroid so maybe you could wait on supplementing the thyroid till after you get going on TRT. Estradiol looks low to me right now.

Curious to see other views.

I could knock the wife up right now because my semen labs are normal and my sperm is in perfect working order.

I am also confused why my estradiol dropped from 24pg to 14pg could it because of flu that I have?


Looks like I do not have anything else to try. Tomorrow getting my scripts for test cpy and hcg along with adex.

[Trific]

Looks like I do not have anything else to try. Tomorrow getting my scripts for test cpy and hcg along with adex

As long as you are aware that it is said that when you go on TRT your fertility becomes less...that's why I think you should stay on clomid until she is PG or think about storing some semen now.
It looks like some guys stay fertile on TRT and some don't. We don't know how you will be on TRT.

[Trific]

Think I'll go see if I can get gbrice75 to weigh in here....he is on TRT and the last I knew he wants to fertilize his wife's eggs and he has been studying it all.

Or you can contact him by PM or IM.

[gbrice75]

Think I'll go see if I can get gbrice75 to weigh in here....he is on TRT and the last I knew he wants to fertilize his wife's eggs and he has been studying it all.

Or you can contact him by PM or IM.

Hey guys, thanks for bringing me in, although i'm far from an expert on this side of the 'business'.

I had a semen analysis done at the end of December and as far as I can read it, all was looking good. I'm going to do another one around June to see what if anything changes. So far, I haven't knocked up the wife but honestly I think it's been more about poor timing on our part. We're going to pay strict attention next month to her ovulation cycle and hopefully, I can do it once more.

[Jon1000]

Hey guys, thanks for bringing me in, although i'm far from an expert on this side of the 'business'.

I had a semen analysis done at the end of December and as far as I can read it, all was looking good. I'm going to do another one around June to see what if anything changes. So far, I haven't knocked up the wife but honestly I think it's been more about poor timing on our part. We're going to pay strict attention next month to her ovulation cycle and hopefully, I can do it once more.

thats awesome dude how long have you been on trt and would you please outline your protocol?

[gbrice75]

thats awesome dude how long have you been on trt and would you please outline your protocol?

Sure. Been on for roughly 8 months now. I'm currently running 100mg test cyp every 3.5 days (Wednesday evening, Sunday morning). HCG 300iu's Mon/Wed/Fri. Arimidex at .25mg every Thursday and Monday (about 24 hours after test injection).

[Rusty11]

Nice, gbrice...looking good, dude! Your hard work definately shows.

[Jon1000]

Going to see doc on friday may 24th for complete blood work.

Currently on 200mg of test a week with .25mg of adex eod.


I have a few question hcg came in today and I do not know how to mix it properly any one help me with this?
Also what bloods should be taken.

Just give me the most important ones so I could bring them with me.

Thanks guys.

[LowT Mike]

LH
FSH
CBC
CMP14
Estradiol
DHT
PSA
TOTAL T
Free T
Lipids


You want to mix HCG so that its 1000IU per ml. So if you have a 10,000IU vial/kit. You need to add 10Ml of water. If its 5,000IU kit then add 5ml of water. Get it? Generally most men get full saturation of Leydig receptors for spermogenesis and endogenous T production with a dose of 250-500IU 2-3x per week. General protocol would be 300IU 2x per week. So that means at 1000IU per ML you would draw up .3ml or cc. Hope this helps

[Jon1000]

LH
FSH
CBC
CMP14
Estradiol
DHT
PSA
TOTAL T
Free T
Lipids


You want to mix HCG so that its 1000IU per ml. So if you have a 10,000IU vial/kit. You need to add 10Ml of water. If its 5,000IU kit then add 5ml of water. Get it? Generally most men get full saturation of Leydig receptors for spermogenesis and endogenous T production with a dose of 250-500IU 2-3x per week. General protocol would be 300IU 2x per week. So that means at 1000IU per ML you would draw up .3ml or cc. Hope this helps

lh
fsh

while on exogenous test shots you sure about that?

[Jon1000]

ESTRADIOL, SERUM
Name Value Reference Range
ESTRADIOL 33.16 7.63-42.60 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE, TOT.,S. >1500.0 249.0-836.0 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE, FREE, SERUM 46.69 8.80-27.00 pg/mL
Lab: VITAMIN D, 25-HYDROX, SERUM
Name Value Reference Range
25OH, VITAMIN D 19.4 32.0-100.0 ng/mL doc put me on supps for this.

everything else came back normal.

still waiting on dht.

Currently my protocal is test cyp mon/thur 200mg total a week with .25mg of adex tues and friday going to add hcg next week.

Any comments thoughts thanks guys.

[kelkel]

Yes. TT is to high. No need to be that high. Remember it's not a cycle. Drop it back to .75 x 2 which in turn will lower your E2 a bit and possibly help toward getting off of it totally, which should be your goal. Less ancillaries the better here. Keep an eye on your CBC as over time they will rise, especially at the dosage you're on now. Re: RBC, Hemo, Hema, etc.

You won't feel "worse" if you scale things back. I've yet to feel a difference between 900 - 1300. Your D is in the toilet so begin supplementing if you're not. I'd suggest maybe 5K per day of D3.

Be healthy!