wow! just got blood work reults. i'm switching back to IM testosterone injections!

[rollingthunder]

about 2 months ago, i switched from IM test cyp injections to subq. just got my recent lab results...
free test dropped from 24 to 9! yikes!

i'm going back to IM!

(the title should read "blood work RESULTS" not "reults"...)

[PistolPete33]

Interesting. I'm curious what the others thoughts are on this. I can def. see the benefit of SubQ for ease of injecting but if it's not being absorbed the same then I'm all set. Thanks for sharing.

[LT75]

What were you injecting each time and how many times a week?

[J DIESEL3]

My free and total increased from sub q

[Doug350SD]

This is just another example that all of our bodies are different and respond in their own ways, gels and creams work for some, while sub q is great for others.
What is your full protocol? Are you using HCG ? How long have you been treating TRT, perhaps hpta shutdown now causing the drop?

[bass]

mine was the same, but better e2 management! I am off AI's because if SQ.

[steroid.com 1]

about 2 months ago, i switched from IM test cyp injections to subq. just got my recent lab results...
free test dropped from 24 to 9! yikes!

i'm going back to IM!

(the title should read "blood work RESULTS" not "reults"...)

Something else is at play here; there should be no difference in how your body cleaves and metabolizes your exogenous Testosterone via IM or SQ.

The reason for SQ, as bass notes very well here, is to increase the number of injections with smaller doses eliminating serum spikes and lowering the risk for increased E2.

There are many things that can effect your free serum levels - like increased SHBG or E2 levels - and I highly doubt it was because you switched to SQ injections.

SQ injections are being recommended by more and more TRT Physicians for all the many benefits.

[rollingthunder]

i had my numbers pretty well "dialed in" before switching to sub q:
10/12/2012 lab work
free test - 24.8
dhea-sulfate - 264.2
estradiol - 21.9
protocol had been 100 mg test cyp once per week IM. .5 mg arimidex 2x/wk.

10/20/2012 lab work
free test - 9.3
dhea-sulfate - 159.9
estradiol - 33.9
new protocol was 50 mg test cyp sub q tues/fri. HCG 250 iu MWF. stopped taking the arimidex because others (ie bass) indicated they did not need the AI after they went to sub q. in addition, i have been taking 100 mg/day micronized dhea from lef.org, but had missed a few days in the week or two before the blood draw.

there may well be something else in play here, gdevine. however, for now, i'm going back to IM and see if i can these numbers back to where they were.

[kelkel]

It appears now you are converting more T to E which in and of itself will lower your T level. Your E went up about 1/3 actually. Some people still need a low dose AI even with SQ. Also remember no two lab pulls will ever be exactly the same. We all fluctuate physiologically. I'm curious how you feel though, not considering the numbers? Joints, libido, etc.

I don't know exactly what caused all of this but I do know it is preferable to be on as little AI as possible. Personally I would prefer to up the T slightly and use a smaller amount of AI than the opposite.

[unscarred]

It appears now you are converting more T to E which in and of itself will lower your T level. Your E went up about 1/3 actually. Some people still need a low dose AI even with SQ. Also remember no two lab pulls will ever be exactly the same. We all fluctuate physiologically. I'm curious how you feel though, not considering the numbers? Joints, libido, etc.

I don't know exactly what caused all of this but I do know it is preferable to be on as little AI as possible. Personally I would prefer to up the T slightly and use a smaller amount of AI than the opposite.

This may sound redundant, but am I right in assuming if one has higher E2 levels than appropriate that by simply lowering your E2 via arimidex for example such individual should see an increase in testosterone levels since the test is no longer being converted to E as much?

Seems obvious and like something I should already know...but wasn't sure if it really works out like that in the real world that someone with elevated E2 levels will increase their testosterone simply by taking Adex.

[steroid.com 1]

This may sound redundant, but am I right in assuming if one has higher E2 levels than appropriate that by simply lowering your E2 via arimidex for example such individual should see an increase in testosterone levels since the test is no longer being converted to E as much?

Yes you got it correct. Read the sticky on Estradiol it will help you.

Seems obvious and like something I should already know...but wasn't sure if it really works out like that in the real world that someone with elevated E2 levels will increase their testosterone simply by taking Adex.

I wouldn't have changed your AI protocol till you got blood work after you started SQ to determine if you should reduce your dosage of come off it completely...therein lies your answer.

[kelkel]

^^^Yep. One change at a time is always best. Otherwise it's difficult to determine exactly what caused the change...

[rollingthunder]

I'm curious how you feel though, not considering the numbers? Joints, libido, etc.

i would definitely say i have felt worse in joints, libido and energy level the past few weeks.

good point about changing one thing at a time. i was concerned about crashing my E2 levels, however, so that's why i stopped the AI. another variable thrown in was i added HCG to my protocol right about the same time i switched to sub Q injections. too many variables to be able to identify the problem.

my plan is to return to the protocol that was working for me. once lab results are back where i'd like them to be, then possibly retry sub Q, but changing just one component at a time.

[kelkel]

Remember it doesn't have to be SQ ALL the time. I rotate between SQ, glutes and delts (never quads) with a variety of syringe sizes for all. I don't want to pin in one location only. That, in and of itself would bother me.

kel

[rollingthunder]

most recent lab results after returning to IM protocol...

total serum testosterone : 821, ref range 348-1197
free testosterone: 31.3 ref range 7.2-24.0
dhea-sulfate: 445.5, ref range 44.3-331.0
estradiol: 34.8, ref range 7.6-42.6

the free testosterone number is the highest it has ever been for me. i returned to my previous protocol of 100 mg test cyp IM injection 1xW. cut arimidex back to .5 mg 1xW. HCG , 250 iu 2xW.

it sure seems as if the IM injections work better for me than the subq.

after this latest blood work, i will adjust protocol as follows:

80 mg test cyp IM 1xW
.4 mg arimidex 2xW
250 iu hcg 2xW

retest in 6 weeks.

[letsfixit]

What is your goal levels for test.?

[rollingthunder]

What is your goal levels for test.?

free testosterone right about 24

[Black]

i had my numbers pretty well "dialed in" before switching to sub q:
10/12/2012 lab work
free test - 24.8
dhea-sulfate - 264.2
estradiol - 21.9
protocol had been 100 mg test cyp once per week IM. .5 mg arimidex 2x/wk.

10/20/2012 lab work
free test - 9.3
dhea-sulfate - 159.9
estradiol - 33.9
new protocol was 50 mg test cyp sub q tues/fri. HCG 250 iu MWF. stopped taking the arimidex because others (ie bass) indicated they did not need the AI after they went to sub q. in addition, i have been taking 100 mg/day micronized dhea from lef.org, but had missed a few days in the week or two before the blood draw.

there may well be something else in play here, gdevine. however, for now, i'm going back to IM and see if i can these numbers back to where they were.

You only went 8 days in between lab tests?

[rollingthunder]

You only went 8 days in between lab tests?

sorry. that is a typo on the 2nd date. should be 12/20/2012.