Splitting Nebido Reandron

[milord]

Hi guys,

Im new here, but whatever i could find about nebido in the previous threads i did read. I also read every medical paper or trial, what was avalible online or on other forums. My big problem is with nebido that it only provides 800ish levels in the first few weeks. After couple weeks it drops to 450 500 befor your next injection. So my idea was to split the nebido to about 1 ml portions and inject every 8 days. Based on my calculations made based on the half life data provided by the medical papers it should give a solid level of 850 +-20 ng/dl. This is my goal because i didnt felt very well when i was in the 500ng/dl area.

Who has any experience with this, did someone tried to split and inject it more frequently?

I know some people will say its not made for splitting or they might feel allright when injecting only every 10 weeks. You are might be right, but i think im more sensible to the roller coaster effect it gives me. So please post only if you have tried and failed, tried and succided , or want to try.

Thanks guys, i will post some bloodwork in couple days, iv got my 3th shot of nebido.

[marcus300]

Use Nebido as it states by the manufacturers, its alot more stable once you get over the frontload and your running at peak levels.

Been on it for a few yrs now and its the best therapy ive ever been on.

[milord]

Hi Marcus, first of all thank you for your reply. Iv read all your comments on the forum, I do know that it is getting better with the time , but let me show you and all fellow members a picture copied from the andrologyjournal's article.

This supports what im saying, that there is a 50% decrease in testosterone levels by the end of the cycle. Im 24, i really do feel when i have even a tiny bit less testosterone in my body then i should. So i have to have stable levels, without any roller-coaster effect.

My opinion is that this testosterone preparation is the same as the other oil solutions, just with a longer half-life.

There was a study made in China , where the hypogonadal men recived 500mg instead of 1000 , but there was also a controll group , reciveing 1000 like we do.

Quote:Pharmacokinetic analysis showed a terminal elimination half-life of 18.3+/-2.3 and 23.7+/-2.7 days and showed a mean residence time of 21.7+/-1.1 and 23.0+/-0.8 days for the lower and higher doses, respectively. The area under the serum T concentration-time curve and the T-distribution value related to serum T concentration were significantly higher following the 1,000-mg dose than following the 500-mg dose. The 500-mg dose, when given as the second injection, yielded optimal pharmacokinetics (defined as mean peak T values not exceeding the normal range and persistence of normal levels for at least 7 weeks), suggesting that repeated injections of 500 mg at 6-8-week intervals may provide optimal T replacement.

This showes me that the half life is getting a litte shorter, probably because of the smaller surface, but anyways, it is working in smaller doses too. This leeds me to my conclusion that there has to be a way to inject every 8 days approximately.

Let me quote an another interesting text, it is from nebido-s own website:

What happens if only 1-2 ml of Nebido® (250-500mg testosterone undecanoate) are injected?

No clinical studies have been performed applying such regimens. It would lead to insufficient testosterone substitution requiring a shorter interval until the next injections and therefore losing one of the products main features, the long intervals of about 3 months between administration

There it doas not say that it couldent work, but it says that the product is loosing its main feature, which i dont care for personally.

Let me include the last picture made by me , based on the clinical trials and the half life i made a regression , to calculate the optimal dose for injection. This formul needs further specification because of the changeing half life parameters, but it shows very well how stable levels can be achieved with no fluctuation at all (by injecting 8 days interval) 100ng/dl fluctuation (by injecting every 16 days) , and also on the right there is the official fluctuation showing the decrease of 50% by the end of the 10-12th week

[Back In Black]

Are you actually under a doctors supervision for TRT?

[marcus300]

I wouldn't change the standard protocol because I feel like 21 again and Ive never had any problems. There are many many studies on Nebido from 2 yrs studies to 15 yr studies and the protocols Ive seen range from 8 weeks to 12 weeks and they are come in stable if you run the compound long enough. I know a few people on it and they all love the stuff but a few do moan during the first few injections but it takes time to build up and full effects established. The whole idea is 4-5 injection per year with stable blood levels and my endos he's never seen so many happy low test patients who run Nebido lol....if you want to start dividing the injection up thats your call but I wouldn't, i would run it like they tell you to and let it build up and see how you feel. If you want to start injection every few weeks you might aswel go on test e. What does your endo say?

[milord]

SteM im under doctors supervision. But here in Hungary endos are not really well aquinted with trt, so pretty much it is a 2 way communication between the patient and the doctor. Im pretty much guiding him.

Marcus, i know that you are happy with it and it is probably because you are much less sensitive then i am in this case. You might feel good on 500's but i really suffer. This is my 3th shot in 6 week intervals (so i did 3 loading injections) and now im feeling good after 10 days of my last (3th) injection (my level befor my third injection was 466, one week after my 3th injection i had a testosterone level of 1085, but followed by a very high estrogen level, within the range but exactelly on the top)

Based on my calculations (1085-466/7 --- 7 because nebido reaches its peek after 7 days , so if i divide the difference by 7 and i assume that the growing of test levels is linear then i can calculate) i started to feel good when i was in the mid 800's reaching 900 , so i think i want to maintain this levels. Currently i stopped with my hcg shots and im not takeing any AI's to be able to measure the half- life , and the decline of nebido in vivo. When im finished with it, i will be able to calculate a personal regression on nebido, to be able to set the proper intervals and dosage of nebido.

The problem with test e is that what i can get from the hungarian nhs (oep in hungary) is the nebido or the androgel which i dont want, so im stuck with the nebido.

The endo pretty much aggrees with me, and he supports what im trying to do. Im lucky in this way. I will post my results about my nebido my experiments.

[milord]

My experience with nebido in the 800-900 range is very-very good! I have morning wood, no brain fog, nice libido, better sleep. It is a good stuff i think. Befor nebido when i started trt i was in the 500's no desire for sex no concentration, bad sleep.

[marcus300]

Sounds like you didnt even give it chance to work, its takes time to feel the full effects of Nebido. I know other gusy who prfer higher end levels and they are totally happy with Nebido once they got it up and running correctly. I know Bona makes his own and takes it monthly I think thats the only person I know all the rest of them have been amazed by the therapy. Sounds like you have made your own mind up and to be honest when the patient is advicing the doctor its time to find someone who knows what he is talking about no matter the cost or location..best of luck

[milord]

You are might be right, and i do not question your personal opinion.

When we are talking about the bulid up period, we do speak about the remainig testosteron in our body, which is accumulated with time, and that gives higher levels of testosterone. This is the effect probably what people are talking about when they say with time it is getting better. And yes it is getting more even but it drops by the end of the period anyhow. I would really like to hear from Bona how he is doing, based on my calculations he is experiencing an up and down from 200-300 ng/dl if he injects every month.

In my country trt is not a common thing especially not for younger guys, and not with test levels of 500. I vgot the best doctor currently who is avalible.

[marcus300]

You are might be right, and i do not question your personal opinion.

When we are talking about the bulid up period, we do speak about the remainig testosteron in our body, which is accumulated with time, and that gives higher levels of testosterone. This is the effect probably what people are talking about when they say with time it is getting better. And yes it is getting more even but it drops by the end of the period anyhow. I would really like to hear from Bona how he is doing, based on my calculations he is experiencing an up and down from 200-300 ng/dl if he injects every month.

In my country trt is not a common thing especially not for younger guys, and not with test levels of 500. I vgot the best doctor currently who is avalible.

There is enough studies done on nebido to know how it works and what to expect, think ive seen studies running for 3yrs 8yrs and 15yrs so I would run it as prescribed and proven. Yes it takes around 4-9 months in some people to get them running at full speed and also feel the full benefits. Its a therapy whats suppose to be injected anywhere from 8 wks - 12 weeks and enough money has been pumped into research to know whats best.

You would of been better running it as prescribed and then adjusting to suit your. I am very intune with my body and I was fine on a 12 week protocol but did feel a slight drop at wk 10 so my doctor has me on 11 wk protocol now and everything is great....

I wouldnt do your own calculation, run it as prescribed and no matter what your better finding a proper doctor who knows what he is talking about..

[Far from massive]

What about all the partially processed depots you will be creating on your body?

The instructions for Nebido are very specific as to how to place the injection depot, and how long to wait before the next injection. I am sure there are very good reasons for this and I would not want to try to circumvent them without fully understanding all the possible outcomes.

As everyone has said just stick to the protocol.

[milord]

Marcus i read every single one of those studies you posted, non of them was saying that it would be harmful to do multiple shots. And as i qouted there was a study done in China which stated that more frequent shots are needed when giving 500mg nebido each time. They did not say it would be harmful, the only thing they said was that you need to shoot more often. And the biggest problem with nebido and the maufacturers prescription is, that they find it okey to let your levels drop 400ng/dl by the end of one cycle. This is too much for me because im very sensitive to that , i know what is it like to be in the 500's and I dont want to be even close to that (even if the doctors consider 500 a good level) . This drop (400) is shown on the longterm studies too , as I quoted this drop was measured after the 13th injection!

The partially processed depots will contribute to the total test level. This is why i say to maintain an average level of 850 ng/dl approximatelly 0.95 ml nebido is needed every 8 days. Please see the following spredsheet: the decreasing and increasing is calculated based on

[marcus300]

Marcus i read every single one of those studies you posted, non of them was saying that it would be harmful to do multiple shots. And as i qouted there was a study done in China which stated that more frequent shots are needed when giving 500mg nebido each time. They did not say it would be harmful, the only thing they said was that you need to shoot more often. And the biggest problem with nebido and the maufacturers prescription is, that they find it okey to let your levels drop 400ng/dl by the end of one cycle. This is too much for me because im very sensitive to that , i know what is it like to be in the 500's and I dont want to be even close to that (even if the doctors consider 500 a good level) . This drop (400) is shown on the longterm studies too , as I quoted this drop was measured after the 13th injection!

The partially processed depots will contribute to the total test level. This is why i say to maintain an average level of 850 ng/dl approximatelly 0.95 ml nebido is needed every 8 days. Please see the following spredsheet: the decreasing and increasing is calculated based on

There is no big problem with nebido, everyone ive known who was prescribed it said it was great and far better than test e. My levels have never dropped to 400 on nebido and I doubt yours will.......I also never said it was harmful at any dose.

I would use it as prescribed and not make your own protocol up, thats all I am saying.

best of luck

[milord]

Thank you Marcus , i will keep everybody posted about how my therapy goas.

[Renholder]

What about estradiol control with the 8-12 week injection protocol?

My E2 spikes after the Nebido injection and probably drops off through the end of the cycle. I suspect it's one of the reasons my libido is suffering and is unstable.

I've been on Nebido since May, started feeling better only in November (when I quit drinking coffee), but my libido is still a mess.

I want predictability and stability, so I'm considering a more frequent injection protocol or gels.

I will post my new BW taken 8 weeks after a Nebido shot.