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  1. #1
    letsfixit is offline New Member
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    200mg raised my levels to 732

    My before was


    Testosterone , Serum (Total)---- 342 L -------ref range(ng/dl) 348-1197




    Doc gave me a shot Monday and and drew blood next Monday. She gave me another 200mg shot after blood draw. Next Monday results came in and she said my test is 732 and is too high. I told her I never felt better. She says keeping it this high can cause cancer. Prostate or pancreas, I don't remember. She wants my levels to be around 5-600 out of the 348-1197 ref range. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Trific's Avatar
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    It's not too high at 732, that's where some like to be, that's where I'd like to be.....but you will need to watch your E2 so that it doesn't get too high or you will need to add an AI. 200mg per week is twice as much as alot of people's doses....E2 gets too high you might not feel so good. It would also help your E2 by splitting your weekly dose into two pins= a pin every 3.5 days.
    If you are under the top of the range she should be happy imo....
    Last edited by Trific; 02-03-2013 at 08:48 PM.

  3. #3
    letsfixit is offline New Member
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    Is 500 acceptable for a 27 yo male?

  4. #4
    Trific's Avatar
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    It could be, just depends on how you feel there.... Even if you lowered your dose to 50mg every 3.5 days you might still end up at 732....it's early days yet and you might be able to convince her to leave you there. Are you on HCG too?

  5. #5
    letsfixit is offline New Member
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    No. I mentioned it to her but she was saying it wasn't proven. But she might do a trial. Ill have to remind her again but I gotta sell it to her pretty much.

  6. #6
    letsfixit is offline New Member
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    Also, I felt up and down on the 100. First day was ok then it would peak and then I would yawn a lot. On the 200 I was just pretty chill and my erections were rock hard. On the 100 it gets hard but not all the way. Maybe I'm jus being impatient and this is placebo. Too early to tell? Shouldn't she have drawn blood after being on a month not a week?

  7. #7
    Trific's Avatar
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    You should copy some info supporting what you want and take it in to her. Most of us probably want to be in the upper third of the normal range they give. Could tell her that the range was developed from the data they collected from sick people.
    lef.org has a bunch of test articles.
    Way too soon to tell yet, I read it takes 6 weeks for the testosterone to saturate one's system....she probably should have waited 4-6 weeks for bw.

  8. #8
    letsfixit is offline New Member
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    Then is she doing good by adjusting dosage by the week until she gets a right number? Or does it gradually rise with 100mg a week?

  9. #9
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    These doctors and their inabilities to diagnose, treat, and support patients with hormonal issues is maddening!!

    OP, there are many variables to all of this, and it's just not about a number. IMO, your doctor is doing everything wrong right out of the gate. Now some of the things I mention may have, or may not have been done by her, so please verify if any of this has been reviewed by her.

    When you first had labs that revealed your serum score to be 342ng/dl, your doctor should have been looking to see if this a primary or secondary diagnosis. 342 isn't in the tank, but low enough that it would warrant some investigation (IMO). I personally would suspect that your HPTA is mildly suppressed, thus producing lower than normal levels of LH/FSH, but that is speculation. By chance, do you have these labs (thyroid panels, etc.)? and others? Was this discussed with you? If so, did anyone discuss looking further with any MRI's, testicular exams, additional labs to find out why this is happening.

    Let's say that all of the above was done and confirmed ... Right out of the gate, what is her rationale for 200mg/wk? If she didn't like your 732 serum score after one week, she should have seen it at 2 to 3 days after injection, where I bet it was at least 1,000. The peak time on your medication is 2 to 3 days after injecting, which is why many of us here inject 2x per week, so that our serum level is stable. Did she take a PSA test and any prostate exams prior to starting you on this therapy?

    The normal routine for follow up after starting is six weeks after your first injection, where a COMPLETE set of labs are drawn, including PSA. If you have an existing condition, YES, testosterone can complicate it, but it by no means is a cancer inducer in healthy patients. In addition to everything, you and your doctor needs to be looking at the big picture, and not just fixated on this one hormone assay. How about free and bio testosterone? Throw this one at your doctor ... Ask her what is worse, Patient "A" with a 350ng serum level, or Patient "B" with a 750ng serum level. Of course she will say the patient with 750, right? Well, actually, patient "A" could have very low SHBG, and could very well have a 3.3% free test level, whereas Patient "B" could have very high SHBG, and maybe have only a 1.2% free test level. Free and bio available is what the body actually uses, as it is unbound from any proteins like SHBG and albumin ...

    Patient A - 350ng/dl at 3.3% = 11.55ng/dl
    Patient B - 750ng/dl at 1.2% = 9.0ng/dl
    If testosterone is the devil, then Patient A is worse off than Patient B

    Yes, if you have to be on testosterone cypionate , then it would probably be best to cut back. 100mg/wk, (50mgx2) is probably a better protocol, but you need other things reviewed, like E2, HCG if secondary (which might even reduce your cypionate more), and treatment for any other imbalances upstream and downstream. Please read Kel's sticky on finding a HRT doctor, which will have a comprehensive list of panels, and treatment suggestions. Much is needed if you're going to pursue this journey. Good luck!
    Last edited by Vettester; 02-03-2013 at 11:15 PM.

  10. #10
    Trific's Avatar
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    Maybe she'll just make one change a month until everyone's happy?

    If you want to help her to keep you on a higher amount of test you could do some things for your next blood draw to temporarily lower the total test like: do the blood drawn as far away in time from your last pin as you reasonably can....don't sleep the night before the blood draw....ejaculate once or many times shortly before the blood draw...
    Or just shop for a new doc that will be fine with you at the top of the range if that's where you want to be...
    Last edited by Trific; 02-03-2013 at 11:22 PM.

  11. #11
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trific View Post
    Maybe she'll just make one change a month until everyone's happy?

    If you want to help her to keep you on a higher amount of test you could do some things for your next blood draw to temporarily lower the total test like: do the blood drawn as far away in time from your last pin as you reasonably can....don't sleep the night before the blood draw....ejaculate once or many times shortly before the blood draw...
    Or just shop for a new doc that will be fine with you at the top of the range if that's where you want to be...
    Sorry Trific, but I can't agree with your advise here. 1)s It's just not a good idea to try and manipulate or skew anything in hopes that you can achieve a higher medication. Basically, it is what it is. A patient should just run their labs at face value, and let the cards fall. If the flaw is in the physician, then yes, it's probably time to just go get a qualified doctor who can treat efficiently. 2) Your advise to skew the serum level might be successful if it were based on just endogenous test, but this patient is medicating with exogenous testosterone , so no sleep, ejaculating, drinking, driving a nail into the nuts, or anything else ISN'T going to work, as the serum level will be mostly effected from the medication. Keep in mind, OP is already mildly suppressed, and heading for full suppression with the cypionate .
    Last edited by Vettester; 02-04-2013 at 08:05 PM. Reason: typo "endogenous"

  12. #12
    Trific's Avatar
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    I think letsfixit is worried about being able to keep feeling as good as he does now, guess I would be too, but I think he should savor that feeling and enjoy it. He isn't even using HCG yet and I've read that people often get a good feeling from it and he's getting a bit of a rollercoaster from only 1 big pin a week....he might end up needing a different doc but now he knows test makes him feel good and I think he'll find a way to keep that going.
    It's a much better place to be rather than someone who has started this journey but hasn't felt good yet!

  13. #13
    bullshark99 is offline Senior Member
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    With age and experience comes wisdom, I would take Vettes advice and roll with it. "May" seem like alot of hoops to jump thru but at the end of the day, isnt optimal health what you want....Been down that road, many here have, getting tested when you eat clean for a week, getting tested after not taking an injection for 2-3 weeks just so your levels are low on and on, one thing I've learned is I want to know where "I live" good or bad. Last summer I purposesly had blood work done after a 3 day bender, how else you gonna know what its doing???? Also, if you are pinning only once, get BW done on day 2 and next time on day 6 so to see the whole picture. As stated, if you were 700 on day seven, would bet my house you were over 1000 on day 2 or 3.

  14. #14
    DAAS's Avatar
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    If the "normal Range" for the blood test is. 348-1197 then I can't see how even medically she could say 732 is to high. According to the standard she is going by that is almost dead into the normal range. And if testosterone can cause cancer than all males are fvcked.

    Not sure what she meant by that

  15. #15
    APIs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAAS View Post
    If the "normal Range" for the blood test is. 348-1197 then I can't see how even medically she could say 732 is to high. According to the standard she is going by that is almost dead into the normal range. And if testosterone can cause cancer than all males are fvcked.

    Not sure what she meant by that
    Simple. She's a quack my friend & you're her Guinea Pig. Take our word for it. Follow Vette's advice; find a qualified "Male" TRT Doc to evaluate your case & go from there.

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