Just started TRT

**Moparman** · 02-19-2013, 10:10 AM

well i just just started with a program that is out of state. My insurance doesnt cover the test cyp which is odd since i always thought it was pretty good insurance.

Anyways, the program sent me an order for blood work and I took it to a local lab. Once the lab faxed the results, they set me up with test cyp 200 mgs a week, HCG twice a week and anastrazole for about a 10 week cycle. Prices were great. Initial consult was about $400 which was refundable if i didnt qualify. I also chose sermorelen w ghrp2 w an epi pen. They also supply the syringes and needles and mixing instructions and support.

Im two weeks in and feeling great! I cant complain one bit.

Originally Posted by kelkel

Hello Mopar.

Well, it sounds like you landed with a clinic. Clinic's make money by dishing out more substances for you to buy and your contact there more than likely works off a percentage as well. Not always the best way to go. Remember, TRT is NOT a cycle. It's normally for a lifetime.

My question to you is simple. What was the causative factor for your low T? Or did they just say your T is low and this will fix your problems. In otherword, put a bandaid on the problem? I'd love to see you paste your original post here in the HRT Forum itself along with your blood work with ranges (pre trt) so we can analyze it for you.

When it comes to dosage, 200 seems to be a standard issuance by clinics. In reality it is the high end of TRT dosages and may put you into a supraphysiologic range. It is always best to start low (say 100mg per week) and titrate up based on BW, not start high and then hope to mitigate sides along the way. It's quite possible on a more moderate dosage and protocol you could get by without an AI if testing bears this out.

More is not better in TRT. It all needs to be based on BW. Remember, the more T injected at one time = a greater spike in E2. Therefore the opposite is true as well, less injected = less of a spike in E. Once again, less is more in TRT.

What dosage did they prescribe for Anastrazole and HCG out of curiosity? Also, it may be a good time to check our lowtestosterone.com for more responsible treatment.

kel

Ok so Ive been tired lately. I used to be very high strung. full of energy. horned all the time. couldnt gain weight easy/

But the last few years ive been yawning by lunch time. Not feeling the urge to to the deed. having memory issues and such Now prior to this, I had gone to my local doc and he ran my bloodwork for testosterone levels and said they were in the normal range (but on the low side) so he thought maybe it was something else. He sent me for a sleep study.

I am 49 yo going to be 50 this year. I was not over weight- i am 6'6" 235 lbs and mainly muscle. I was working out 3x a week following the Testosterone Transformation workout from Mens Health trying to kick me up a notch but all I did was maintain and maybe get stronger.

So I see this ad on FB that my cousin liked for a Testosterone TRT clinic and i contacted them. They ran my blood and my results were

Total Test 381
Free test 59.4
Bio Avail 124.7
Six Hormone Binding gobulin 26
Albumin, Serum 4.6

Estradiol 28

The Anastrazole pills I forget the dosage. I will check tonight. But the HCG was 25 on a the scale for the insulin needle. I think thats 250 iu???? and I take the anastrazole monday and thurs and the HCG every other day.

i went with these guys due to cost. supplies were $300 for 10 weeks versus some of the other outrageous prices ive seen. I also opted for the sermorelin GHRP and tadalafil. They will check my bloodwork again in 10 weeks to see how this are shaping up. I know one thing- I am definitely shaping up!

**steroid.com 1** · 02-19-2013, 10:57 AM

Did you get a full blow Thyroid work up done?

Many of the symptoms of Hypogonadism are the same for Hypothyroidism and in deed Hypothyroidism can and will cause Hypogonadism.

IF not, talk to your Doctor and don't just get TSH you want all Thyroid labs.

**Moparman** · 02-19-2013, 11:36 AM

They did it all as far as I can tell. 6 or 7 tubes of blood.

T3 uptake was hi at 39
T4 total was 6.3
Free t4 index (t7) was 2.5
Tsh. Was 1.11

**Moparman** · 04-15-2013, 07:11 PM

So 8 weeks later and a new set of results:

Total T is 1138. Range is 250-1100
Free T is 212.5 range is 46-224
Bioavailable T is 427.5 range is 110-575
Shbg is 29 range is 10-50

Now I've been having swollen ankles and thought my estradiol was high. So I had been taking my 1 mg anastazole eod instead of just Mondays and thursday. Well my results show

Estradiol <15 range is <=39

Before starting Test cyp I was at 29. So I tanked my estradiol.

So if my estradiol didnt go up and cause my swollen ankle, what did??

A couple of things that are out of spec are

Creatinine is 1.36 high w range .60-1.35
ALT is 73 high w range 9-60

Is Alt high because of injecting IM??

Any comments?

**Moparman** · 04-15-2013, 07:16 PM

Oh ya and my HDL dropped from 53 to 40.

At least My Vit D total went up to 56 W range 30-100

DHEA SULFATE was 129 w range 45-345.

**steroid.com 1** · 04-15-2013, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Moparman

So 8 weeks later and a new set of results:

Total T is 1138. Range is 250-1100
Free T is 212.5 range is 46-224
Bioavailable T is 427.5 range is 110-575
Shbg is 29 range is 10-50

Now I've been having swollen ankles and thought my estradiol was high. So I had been taking my 1 mg anastazole eod instead of just Mondays and thursday. Well my results show

Estradiol <15 range is <=39

Before starting Test cyp I was at 29. So I tanked my estradiol.

So if my estradiol didnt go up and cause my swollen ankle, what did??

A couple of things that are out of spec are

Creatinine is 1.36 high w range .60-1.35
ALT is 73 high w range 9-60

Is Alt high because of injecting IM??

Any comments?

You look pretty good man for what you posted. E2 is measured how on your labs. Interesting it tops out at 39.

ALT is a liver enzyme; could be anything. It's a marker for inflammation in the body. You could have injured yourself or any other reason like taking meds or even drinking. Just look to make sure there's not a pattern on your next drinking.

And now you know 1 mg of an AI EOD is very excessive. Might want to reduce to .5 mg twice a week. Talk to your Doctor.

**Moparman** · 04-16-2013, 06:02 AM

After reading about raised ALT I've found that it could go up if you eat fast food like McDonald's. As out of the ordinary as it is for me, the week before the test I actually ate at McDonald's twice. Both times I had a double quarter pounder w cheese and filetofish. Maybe?? Well I wont go anymore. I hadn't been there in months but I was late coming home from the gym and didn't feel like making dinner.

Says it can also go up from aspirin. I've recently started taking 2 low dose aspirin in the morning and two at nite. I guess I'll reduce that too

Also says it could be from intense workouts which I've been doing lately. I have been lazy this past week but before that I was in the gym for 2 hours a day four days a week working my butt off. That would explain why my creatinine is slightly high.

Btw I suppliment w creatine. I take 5 gms a day. I guess that would raise it too, wouldn't it? EDIT- after googling it I found a study that says creatine would raise creatinine levels.

Could my swollen ankles be related?? You say inflammation and my ankles are pretty big. Plus with my rigorouse workouts I'm sure I'm causing a lot of muscle inflammation.

For sure ill cut back on the anastazole. I'll try the .5 mg twice a week the day after I inject the test. I was also thinking of cutting back on the test from 100 mg twice a week (200 mg a week) to 70 mg twice a week (140 mg a week).

**Moparman** · 04-16-2013, 07:32 AM

One more point. My blood test for 8 week results was done at 11:30 Monday morn on march 8. I had my last test shot of 80 mg of test on the sat before. Normally I take it on Fridays and Monday's but I was runni g out and couldn't get a refill until Tuesday.

So my normal 100 mg on Friday was reduced to 80 mg on Saturday and I didn't get another shot until tuesday (after the blood test on Monday)

**Moparman** · 04-16-2013, 10:01 AM

Here's my full set of labs

1/28/2013
4/8/2013

Thyroid Panel w TSH
T3 Uptake
22-35%
39 H
31
T4 (Thyroxine), Total
4.5-12.0 mcg/dl
6.3
5.8
Free T4 Index (T7)
1.4-3.8
2.5
1.8
TSH
0.40-4.50 mIU/L
1.11
1.97
Lipid Panel
Cholesterol Total
125-200 mg/dl
188
182
HDL Cholesterol
> or = 40 mg/dl
53
40
Triglycerides
<150 mg/dl
114
138
LDL- Cholesterol
<130 mg/dl
112
114
Chol/HDLC ratio
< or = 5.0
3.5
4.6
Non HDL Cholesterol
LDL + 30 mg/dl
135
142
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Glucose
65-99 mg/dl
87
82
Urea Nitrogen (BUN)
7-25 mg/dl
14
23
Creatinine
0.60-1.35 mg/dl
1.18
1.36 H
eGFR Non-African American
> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
72
61
EGFR African American
> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
83
70
BUN/Creatinine ratio
6-22 (calc)
NA
17
Sodium
135-146 mmol/L
138
141
Potasium
3.5-5.3 mmol/L
4
4.2
Chloride
98-110 mmol/L
102
104
Carbon Dioxide
19-30 mmol/L
27
27
Calcium
8.6-10.3 mg/dl
9.5
9.3
Protein, Total
6.1-8.1 g/dl
6.4
6.4
Albumin
3.6-5.1 g/dl
4.5
4.5
Globulin
1.9-3.7 g/dl (calc)
1.9
1.9
Albumin/Globulin ratio
1.0-2.5 md/dl
2.4
2.4
Bilirubin, Total
0.2-1.2 mg/dl
0.8
0.5
Alkaline Phospatase
40-115 U/L
60
60
AST
10-40 U/L
25
37
ALT
9-60 U/L
29
73 H
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy, LC,MS,MS
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total
30-100 ng/ml
25
52
56
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3
NA
25
23
25
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2
NA
<4
29
31
Hepatic Function Panel
Protein, Total
6.1-8.1 g/dl
6.4
6.4

Albumin
3.6-5.1 g/dl
4.5
4.5
Globulin
1.9-3.7 g/dl (calc)
1.9
1.9
Albumin/Globulin ratio
1.0-2.5 md/dl
2.4
2.4
Bilirubin, Total
0.2-1.2 mg/dl
0.8
0.5
Bilirubin, Direct
< or + 0.2 mg/dl (calc)
0.2
0.1
Bilirubin, Indirect
0.2 - 1.2 mg/dl
0.6
0.4
Alkaline Phosphate
40-115 U/L
60
60
AST
10-40 U/L
25
37
ALT
9-60 U/L
29
73 H
IGF I, LC/MS
52-328 ng/ml
131
144
Z Score
-2.0 - +2.0
-0.2
0
CBC (includes Diff/Plat)
White Blood Cell Count
3.8-10.8 Thous/uL
7.5
4.2
Red Blood Cell Count
4.20-5.80 Mill/uL
4.55
5.18
Hemoglobin
13.2-17.1 g/dL
14.3
15.7
Hematocrit
38.5-50.0 %
42.9
48.2
MCV
80-100 fL
94.3
93.1
MCH
27-33 pg
31.5
30.3
MCHC
32-36 g/dL
33.4
32.6
RDW
11 - 15 %
13.7
14
Platelet count
140-400 thous/uL
192
219
Absolute Neutrophils
1500-7800 cells/uL
5790
NA
Absolute Lymphocytes
850-3900 cells/uL
1073
NA
Absolute Monocytes
200-950 cells/uL
458
NA
Absolute Eosinophils
15-500 vells/uL
150
NA
Absolute Basophils
0-200 cells/uL
30
NA
Neutrophils
%
77.2
NA
Lymphocytes
%
14.3
NA
Monocytes
%
6.1
NA
Eosinophils
%
2
NA
Basophils
%
0.4
NA
Vitamin B12
200-1100 pg/mL
441
461
DHEA Sulfate
45-345 mcg/dl
NA
129
FSH
1.6-8.0 mIU/ml
2.6
NA
LH
1.5-9.3 mIU/ml
1.8
NA
Estradiol
< or = 39 pg/ml
28
<15
PSA, Total
< or + 4.0 ng/ml
0.9
NA
Testosterone , Free, Bio and Total
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS
250-1100 ng/dl
381
1138 H
Testosterone, Free
46.0-224.0 pg/ml
59.4
212.5
Testosterone, Bioavailable
110-575 ng/dl
124.7
427.8
Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin
10-50 nmol/L
26
29
Albumin, Serum
3.6-5.1 g/dl
4.6
4.4

**ZenFitness** · 04-16-2013, 11:14 AM

How are you feeling with the lower E2 vs. before? I think you and I may be similar in terms of E2.

**Moparman** · 04-16-2013, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by ZenFitness

How are you feeling with the lower E2 vs. before? I think you and I may be similar in terms of E2.

I was feeling like crap actually.

When I first started the T I felt great. Horny all the Time. excellent gains at the gym. Not so tired during the day

But then I started feeling weird. Head kinda numb. Thought it might be allergies. Heck maybe it is. I don't kno. But I started losing my mojo. My libido dropped and my ankles swelled. So I took MORE ANASTRAZLE!! Lol. Figured I was hi E. blood test says different

So I'll lower my ai and see what happens.

**Moparman** · 09-03-2013, 10:47 AM

Ok. Six month update. I've played with the anastrozole dose and even .25 mg 2x a week is too much. I started feeling like crap again after going back on it. I stopped all ai a few weeks ago and I'm feeling much better now. Not sure how low I got but I am now at 30 on my E2

I also reduced my test to 160 mg split twice a week (40 ml or 80 mg every 3.5 days). Hcg was 250 iu mwf. I just changed that after this bw to 350 iu 2x a week on my test inj days. So here's my results (quest labs)

Total t is 996 range is 250-1100
Free t is 218.5 range is 46-224
Bioavailability T 449.4 range is 110 to 575
Shbg is 22 range is 10-50
E2 is 30 range is <39

**Moparman** · 09-05-2013, 06:39 AM

I forgot to mention. This set of bloods were taken on a Friday morning. I usually inject Sunday morn (80 mg) and Wednesday nite (80 mg). I skipped the Wednesday shot and no Hcg all that week.

I'm a little concerned with my creatinine levels. I've been taking 10 mg of creatine every day. I've read that can raise the creatinine levels so I stopped taking it starting today.

Any thoughts? My levels were normal before trt and I was taking the creatine then too. But I may have upped it to 10 mg back around the time I started trt

**dreadnok89** · 09-05-2013, 07:16 AM

Ya man estrogen is strange. I notice I'm horny as hell with normal or little more estrogen. Also I can tell my E is low when sexually when I finish isn't as strong. When I get in that sweet spot its almost godly hahahaha. If your not getting hard at all your E is def high. Hard as a rock and lame ejaculating usually means low. That's personally me. But that godamn estrogen is key

**FRDave** · 09-05-2013, 12:28 PM

I would drop your test dosage since you would have been a good 200-300 points higher if you had not skipped your test shot Wed and stopped taking HCG . This will also help with your high hematocrit levels. Next time stick to your protocol when getting blood work so you can accurately make changes and not skew results. Your E2 may be a bit high as well if you had not changed your protocol the week of your labs.

As for creatinine, you are most likely dehydrated. Drink lots of water daily and morning of your labs.

**Moparman** · 09-17-2013, 08:03 AM

So I think dropping the creatine is working. I've been having high creatinine levels for a while and sorry to gross you all out but my poop had been a really light clay color for a while- all indicating kidney issues.

Well I'm happy to report it's back to normal color yesterday and today. This is the first time it hasn't been light grey clay colored since march.

Just thought someone else might benefit from this. The real test is when I go back for bloodwork on 10/11.

Oh ya, I've dropped my test dose to 120mg a week split in two. Hopefully my hematocrit levels will drop as well.

**ChiSao** · 09-18-2013, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Moparman

Here's my full set of labs

1/28/2013
4/8/2013

Thyroid Panel w TSH
T3 Uptake
22-35%
39 H
31
T4 (Thyroxine), Total
4.5-12.0 mcg/dl
6.3
5.8
Free T4 Index (T7)
1.4-3.8
2.5
1.8
TSH
0.40-4.50 mIU/L
1.11
1.97
Lipid Panel
Cholesterol Total
125-200 mg/dl
188
182
HDL Cholesterol
> or = 40 mg/dl
53
40
Triglycerides
<150 mg/dl
114
138
LDL- Cholesterol
<130 mg/dl
112
114
Chol/HDLC ratio
< or = 5.0
3.5
4.6
Non HDL Cholesterol
LDL + 30 mg/dl
135
142
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Glucose
65-99 mg/dl
87
82
Urea Nitrogen (BUN)
7-25 mg/dl
14
23
Creatinine
0.60-1.35 mg/dl
1.18
1.36 H
eGFR Non-African American
> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
72
61
EGFR African American
> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
83
70
BUN/Creatinine ratio
6-22 (calc)
NA
17
Sodium
135-146 mmol/L
138
141
Potasium
3.5-5.3 mmol/L
4
4.2
Chloride
98-110 mmol/L
102
104
Carbon Dioxide
19-30 mmol/L
27
27
Calcium
8.6-10.3 mg/dl
9.5
9.3
Protein, Total
6.1-8.1 g/dl
6.4
6.4
Albumin
3.6-5.1 g/dl
4.5
4.5
Globulin
1.9-3.7 g/dl (calc)
1.9
1.9
Albumin/Globulin ratio
1.0-2.5 md/dl
2.4
2.4
Bilirubin, Total
0.2-1.2 mg/dl
0.8
0.5
Alkaline Phospatase
40-115 U/L
60
60
AST
10-40 U/L
25
37
ALT
9-60 U/L
29
73 H
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy, LC,MS,MS
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total
30-100 ng/ml
25
52
56
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3
NA
25
23
25
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2
NA
<4
29
31
Hepatic Function Panel
Protein, Total
6.1-8.1 g/dl
6.4
6.4

Albumin
3.6-5.1 g/dl
4.5
4.5
Globulin
1.9-3.7 g/dl (calc)
1.9
1.9
Albumin/Globulin ratio
1.0-2.5 md/dl
2.4
2.4
Bilirubin, Total
0.2-1.2 mg/dl
0.8
0.5
Bilirubin, Direct
< or + 0.2 mg/dl (calc)
0.2
0.1
Bilirubin, Indirect
0.2 - 1.2 mg/dl
0.6
0.4
Alkaline Phosphate
40-115 U/L
60
60
AST
10-40 U/L
25
37
ALT
9-60 U/L
29
73 H
IGF I, LC/MS
52-328 ng/ml
131
144
Z Score
-2.0 - +2.0
-0.2
0
CBC (includes Diff/Plat)
White Blood Cell Count
3.8-10.8 Thous/uL
7.5
4.2
Red Blood Cell Count
4.20-5.80 Mill/uL
4.55
5.18
Hemoglobin
13.2-17.1 g/dL
14.3
15.7
Hematocrit
38.5-50.0 %
42.9
48.2
MCV
80-100 fL
94.3
93.1
MCH
27-33 pg
31.5
30.3
MCHC
32-36 g/dL
33.4
32.6
RDW
11 - 15 %
13.7
14
Platelet count
140-400 thous/uL
192
219
Absolute Neutrophils
1500-7800 cells/uL
5790
NA
Absolute Lymphocytes
850-3900 cells/uL
1073
NA
Absolute Monocytes
200-950 cells/uL
458
NA
Absolute Eosinophils
15-500 vells/uL
150
NA
Absolute Basophils
0-200 cells/uL
30
NA
Neutrophils
%
77.2
NA
Lymphocytes
%
14.3
NA
Monocytes
%
6.1
NA
Eosinophils
%
2
NA
Basophils
%
0.4
NA
Vitamin B12
200-1100 pg/mL
441
461
DHEA Sulfate
45-345 mcg/dl
NA
129
FSH
1.6-8.0 mIU/ml
2.6
NA
LH
1.5-9.3 mIU/ml
1.8
NA
Estradiol
< or = 39 pg/ml
28
<15
PSA, Total
< or + 4.0 ng/ml
0.9
NA
Testosterone , Free, Bio and Total
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS
250-1100 ng/dl
381
1138 H
Testosterone, Free
46.0-224.0 pg/ml
59.4
212.5
Testosterone, Bioavailable
110-575 ng/dl
124.7
427.8
Sex Hormone Binding Gobulin
10-50 nmol/L
26
29
Albumin, Serum
3.6-5.1 g/dl
4.6
4.4

If I posted that on another site they would call it,"Spam Advertising About Blood Work" Suspended a week! lol