HCG started three days ago Questions

First, I want to confirm my mixing and doses.

5000iu mixed with 5ml's bacteriostatic water.
Injected 20 units which should be 200mg of hcg, right?

Second, I've been on TRT for 3-4 years at inially 300mg e2w then dropped to 200mg e2w.

On day 12 of my every 14 day injection schedule I injected 20 units of HCG
On day 13 I did the same.
Today is day 14 and I injected my 200mg test with no hcg.

Want to get testes back and thus far I've seen little to no affect on my testes. Should I have? Should I up the dose to get them started? I have read the sticky and know about too much HCG being bad.

Planned protocol was to take 200mg HCG on day 12 and 13 as indicated above at end of test week two and then take another 200mg every 3 to 4 days as maintenance.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Notpretty

First, I want to confirm my mixing and doses.

5000iu mixed with 5ml's bacteriostatic water.
Injected 20 units which should be 200mg of hcg, right?
You should have read the sticky on HCG it would tell you how to do this correctly. No need to add 5ml to a 5000iu vial. You could have used 2ml and drawn up to the 10 mark on you slin pin to get 250 iu. But what you did is close enough for HCG and you will be fine.

Second, I've been on TRT for 3-4 years at inially 300mg e2w then dropped to 200mg e2w.
You know about the half life of Testosterone injected right? You know e2w is not good...right?

On day 12 of my every 14 day injection schedule I injected 20 units of HCG
On day 13 I did the same.
Today is day 14 and I injected my 200mg test with no hcg.
All of this is wrong...is this under a Physicians' care?

Want to get testes back and thus far I've seen little to no affect on my testes. Should I have? Should I up the dose to get them started? I have read the sticky and know about too much HCG being bad.

Planned protocol was to take 200mg HCG on day 12 and 13 as indicated above at end of test week two and then take another 200mg every 3 to 4 days as maintenance.

Thoughts?

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Your entire protocol is all wrong with no consideration to compound half life.

You need to read the stickies and start to learn.

I don't want to beat you up here, that's not what I want to do. But for a man who has been on TRT for 3-4 years and not to know that your injection protocol isn't correct is baffling to be honest.

Consider this:
Test Cyp. 50 mg twice a week like Monday morning and Thursday night.
HCG 250 iu three times a week like Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

Testosterone Cyp peaks at about 72 hours after injection and has a half life of about 6 days or so. By day 12 it's done.

Your serum levels are on a hormonal roller coaster and doing probably more harm than good.

What did your last E2 lab say???

Read and learn...there's a lot here both in the stickies at the top of the forum and in the search function.

Your protocol needs help!

First of all, let's keep the terminology of units correct ... When talking HCG, we are talking IU's, or Int'l Units, not mg's. Not trying to school you on this, but just letting you know so it doesn't get confused with other meds, like test, that go by mg's.

Look at breaking your test dose down to at least 1x per week, or better yet, 2x per week. Serum levels wil be more consistent, and E2 plus other sides related to peaks and troughs will be avoided.

Next time on the HCG, just look at mixing 2ml of the bac water. 10 units will = 250iu, and you should see more consistency with not having so much water.

I'd look at doing 3x per week on the HCG. 250iu x 3/wk is what I do, as do many other members here. My nutometer starts acting up after day 3 with not having any HCG, so don't deprive your nuts of the LH analog when it's right there in front of you.

And in the midst of typing, GD beat me to the post. :whipping:

OP, as you can see, we are both basically saying the same thing. Might be worth exploring.

^^^^Great minds my dear friend;)

Luv ya bro!

gd

Editttttttttt...........



Thx

Should 200iu yesterday and today of hcg have triggered my testes by now? And should I have seen some size change yet?

Should I take more to kick start them? I know the sticky, it doesn't talk about kick starting or anything like that...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gdevine

^^^^Great minds my dear friend;)

Luv ya bro!

gd

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I feel the luv indeed ... And my Avi should merge with your Avi :drool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Notpretty

Should 200iu yesterday and today of hcg have triggered my testes by now? And should I have seen some size change yet?

Should I take more to kick start them? I know the sticky, it doesn't talk about kick starting or anything like that...

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OP, nothing needs kick started on this. If your testes haven't been getting LH for 3 or more years, there's a good chance that they will not respond to the analog. There is a point of no return with this stuff. A lot also depends on your original diagnosis, and if there were any initial issues that indicated primary hypo.

If you run regular serum labs, use them as the standard. Run HCG for 4 weeks, then run another set of labs, that will tell if you are producing any endogenous test. The problem though is the timing of the labs with your injection schedule. Your serum levels will be all over the place with doing your injections every 2 weeks.

I wish you would have been talking with us 2 or 3 years ago.

Edit

So when on HCG, should your LH and FSH values increase?

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Originally Posted by Dante Diamond

So when on HCG, should your LH and FSH values increase?

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They never will. HCG only mimics LH. It does not induce ANY natural production from the HPTA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vettester

They never will. HCG only mimics LH. It does not induce ANY natural production from the HPTA.

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I thought so because mine always stays the same. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gdevine

Consider this:
Test Cyp. 50 mg twice a week like Monday morning and Thursday night.
HCG 250 iu three times a week like Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

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I assume these would all be sub-q injections?

You came to the right place for answers....

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Originally Posted by dfwo

I assume these would all be sub-q injections?

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HCG always SQ

Test can be either; your preference.

Go to Youtube and search for Dr. Crisler's videos on injecting SQ...they are very good.

The good news is they have come to life. Strong... I'd say 90% back to normal. I must say I am lucky and glad I got off TRT twice in the last 4 years to let my very weak but still functioning system kick on for long enough to keep it an option.

So, now that l am functioning I plan on a protocol of 250iu three times a week. Are most people finding that sufficient to keep testes normal without causing desensitization. I was thinking I might try a lower dose and see if any shrinkage...if not then great. Try to find lowest optimal dose...smart thinking.

Longterm...anything to know or do?

Notpretty, YES, 250iu x 3/wk is usually an excellent protocol to run with your HRT. I wouldn't worry about the desensitization subject.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vettester

Notpretty, YES, 250iu x 3/wk is usually an excellent protocol to run with your HRT. I wouldn't worry about the desensitization subject.

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Man I can't say enough how nice it is to have my boyz back. I don't look like I was chopped anymore.

I'd like to keep them like this but using a drug that has not been studied for long term use with this protocol concerns me a bit. In my readings only one study 2 years long was done. Has anyone heard more...know more about long term use? I do know tons of people are using hcg..for diets...long life care...etc. I have not read anything that concerned me yet...accept desensitization.

Last...my mixing was with 5ml bac which 2 seems to be the standard when using 5000iu hcg. I will do 2 ml next time, but all my method means is I diluted it to 1000iu per ml and an injection of 1/4 ml should be 250iu...Right?

Thx

Notpretty, you're making it more difficult than it needs to be. HCG just simply mimics the LH analog, which the pituitary is supplying to other men for life when their HPTA functions correctly. When we were young, the HPTA fired up and started producing LH & FSH to no end, thus stimulating the testicles to go crazy with producing testosterone and stimulating the sertoli cells to achieve spermatogenesis. Have you ever heard of anyone getting desensitized because of that? If a 60yo male has excellent natural testosterone levels, then that means he's been also getting healthy levels of LH all along. So why is it everyone wants to panic when an exogenous form of this hormone is administered? Think about it ... Also, if it matters, I've been at it straight for more than 3 years with HCG. If I start getting desensitized, this board will be the first to know.

On the reconstitution ... 5,000iu mixed with 2ml .... 2ML = 5,000, 1ML = 2,500iu, ---> 10 units on your insulin syringe will = 250iu. If going by your current reconstitution, then yes, 25 units will = 250iu.

One more question...

Is there a norm for how much a 250iu three times a week will increase a person's testosterone blood work levels? I'm on 200mg test e2w. Is this change in t level so much an individual specific thing that its not possible to say? Just wanting to know so if im tested again soon for total and free T I'll maybe reduce or adjust as needed. If I go too high they'll want to know why.

Also, does HCG affect hypothyroidism? I'm mildly hypo thyroid. I take a very low dose of levothroid...50mcg daily for hypothyroidism

Thx

Anyone on these last two questions?

Notpretty, re-read post #2 by GD. You might consider this Test protocol over your current one of 200mg. Test e2w. Don't know about hypothryroid, but someone will.