my 8 week test results injecting test-c via sub-Q

[FRDave]

My current protocol is as follows:

- 50mg test-c on Sun morning & Wed night injected sub-Q (rotate between left & right butt cheek) using a 26g 3/8" syringe
- 400iu HCG on Sat morning & Tues night injected sub-Q (rotate between left & right love handles) using a 30g 3/8" syringe
- 100mg daily micronized DHEA (Life Extension)
- 100mg daily micronized Pregnenolone (NutriCology)
- 10,000iu daily vitamin D3
- 2,000mcg daily vitamin B12 (lozenge)

I will be getting additional blood work through Kaiser this Sunday to help better adjust my protocol. I have requested the following:

- DHEA-S
- Pregnenolone
- Vitamin D3
- Vitamin B12
- PSA
- SHBG
- Cortisol
- TSH with T3 & free T4
- Estradiol 'sensitive' (I will be lucky if I get this test and not the standard already included in the LabCorp results attached)


***As you can see, injecting testosterone sub-Q is working great for me but I need to get my estrogen under control.

Dave

[Trific]

Is 746 total test a trough level...if so that's pretty nice....
Are you gonna try like 40 or 45mg twice per week or are you gonna take an AI to lower the E2?
I've heard zinc with some copper might lower the E2.
You're a good example on what's possible for some people on "just" 100mg per week.

[FRDave]

Is 746 total test a trough level...if so that's pretty nice....
Are you gonna try like 40 or 45mg twice per week or are you gonna take an AI to lower the E2?
I've heard zinc with some copper might lower the E2.
You're a good example on what's possible for some people on "just" 100mg per week.

trough level? Not quite sure what you mean. As for the test levels, my Dr wants me in the mid 700's and I am never tired any more and my workouts are the greatest ever, so I would ideally like to stick with the 50mg twice weekly.

I will most likely either drop the HCG dosage a little bit or try 3x a week vs the current 2x a week. Based on blood work Sunday, I may lower DHEA and/or Pregnenolone. I will get a script for armidex but would rather not use it if I can get away with it.

Dave

[Trific]

Trough level is testing your total at it's lowest level or right before an injection was due, but with pinning twice a week your level shouldn't be fluctuating much.

[FRDave]

Trough level is testing your total at it's lowest level or right before an injection was due, but with pinning twice a week your level shouldn't be fluctuating much.

Oh, gotcha. Ya, got blood draw on Wednesday morning at 8am and my injection was later that evening so technically I should have been at my lowest.

Dave

[HRTstudent]

Looks good and sounds good. Feeling good is the name of the game here.

If you wanted to bring down the E2, you could try to lower the DHEA or split it up. Excess DHEA can and will convert to estrogens.

Also, as someone else mentioned Zinc (with copper to prevent deficiency) has quite the high regard from notable Dr Mark Gordon. He uses, I believe, 50mg of zinc citrate dosed 3 times per day. Works well for him.

[FRDave]

Do either of you know the ideal copper to zinc ratio if I go this route?

Thanks, Dave

[Trific]

Do either of you know the ideal copper to zinc ratio if I go this route?

Thanks, Dave

Found this in an old post of gdeine's:

Dr Mark Gordon almost never uses an AI in his approach to TRT protocols in men but rather uses high-dose zinc to inhibit the aromatase enzyme. In Gordon's book he discusses Zinc Citrate dosages in the amounts of 160mg per day, in divided doses. (Any man thinking of taking this amount must add Copper to their supplements in the ratio of roughly 25:1 of zinc:copper.)

[FRDave]

Found this in an old post of gdeine's:

Dr Mark Gordon almost never uses an AI in his approach to TRT protocols in men but rather uses high-dose zinc to inhibit the aromatase enzyme. In Gordon's book he discusses Zinc Citrate dosages in the amounts of 160mg per day, in divided doses. (Any man thinking of taking this amount must add Copper to their supplements in the ratio of roughly 25:1 of zinc:copper.)

Awesome, that's exactly the info I was looking for, thanks.

Ill determine a plan after I get my new blood work done this sunday and get my results back, but will most likely add zinc/copper.

Thanks again,
Dave

[FRDave]

Alright, so I got some zinc and copper labs back as follows:

Zinc - 100 mcg/dL on a range of 50-110
Copper - 92 mcg/dL on a range of 70-140

With the above in mind, is this safe to supplement with an additional 150mg of Zinc daily (copper would be 6mg at a 25:1 ratio).

Thanks in advance,
Dave

[FRDave]

I have also changed my protocal, now injection 250iu HCG on Mon, Wed & Fri with test still 50mg sub-q, but now on Sat morning and Tues night.

Still waiting on my DHEA and Pregnenolone results in which I may drop the dosage on them as well...

Dave

[HRTstudent]

Alright, so I got some zinc and copper labs back as follows:

Zinc - 100 mcg/dL on a range of 50-110
Copper - 92 mcg/dL on a range of 70-140

With the above in mind, is this safe to supplement with an additional 150mg of Zinc daily (copper would be 6mg at a 25:1 ratio).

Thanks in advance,
Dave

If those were blood Zinc and Copper labs then, unfortunately, I don't think they can tell you much. If you had a toxicity issue that might show up. But otherwise, these minerals are found inside the cells so you would need a different test, like Spectracell to tell if you had enough zinc and copper where it counts.

Nonetheless, Dr Mark Gordon seems to use it ubiquitously and he is an expert at what he does. Results speak for themselves, and assuming my doctor was fine with me taking Zn and Cu then I'd go for it.

Also, I've heard 50:1 Zn:Cu is okay. I am not certain that that's what Gordon does... but when I looked into this matter I came away with this. (I happen to take it at 33:1 just because of the pill sizes.)

[38onTRT]

FRDave, what is your BodyFat guesstimate? Thx

[FRDave]

If those were blood Zinc and Copper labs then, unfortunately, I don't think they can tell you much. If you had a toxicity issue that might show up. But otherwise, these minerals are found inside the cells so you would need a different test, like Spectracell to tell if you had enough zinc and copper where it counts.

Nonetheless, Dr Mark Gordon seems to use it ubiquitously and he is an expert at what he does. Results speak for themselves, and assuming my doctor was fine with me taking Zn and Cu then I'd go for it.

Also, I've heard 50:1 Zn:Cu is okay. I am not certain that that's what Gordon does... but when I looked into this matter I came away with this. (I happen to take it at 33:1 just because of the pill sizes.)

Yes, they were blood labs. Guess I'll just wing it and see how I feel. I already have two bottles of Solary branded 50mg Zinc with 2mg copper, so i'll take 3x a day and go from there.

Thanks for the info.,
Dave

[FRDave]

FRDave, what is your BodyFat guesstimate? Thx

I am about 20%, maybe slightly less. All in my gut, love handles and chest :-/ I know dropping body fat will help, but my strength gains are going great right now, best ever in my life to be exact, so I am afraid to cut at the moment since last time I lost all my strength gains on my cut :-(

Dave

[HRTstudent]

I am about 20%, maybe slightly less. All in my gut, love handles and chest :-/ I know dropping body fat will help, but my strength gains are going great right now, best ever in my life to be exact, so I am afraid to cut at the moment since last time I lost all my strength gains on my cut :-(

Dave

excess fat is strongly linked to increased aromatase. for what its worth, if you cut some bodyfat you may be able to lower or stop the AI. it's all variable on a per person basis of course.

[FRDave]

So I received my results back from DHEA-S and I was at 506 (this was 24hrs after my last DHEA intake) so I am thinking the day of I am probably quite high, thus the reason for the increased estrogen.

I am going to drop back down from 100mg to 50mg daily, but divided in two doses and see how it goes. I also dropped my test from 50mg to 40mg twice weekly as I noticed my DHT jumped from 20 to 49 and this scares me as I don't want to loose my hair lol.

Any suggestions on lowering DHT (I inject test via sub-Q every 3.5 days, not using a transdermal)?

Dave

[badrad123]

FRDave, what were your Pregnenolone levels? Thanks!

[FRDave]

FRDave, what were your Pregnenolone levels? Thanks!

Taking 100mg daily in one morning dose (Nutricology micronized), I was 62 on a scale of 13-208 ng/dL. Keep in mind this is 24hrs after my last pregnenolone intake, so day of I would be higher. I think I will leave this as/is and keep taking 100mg daily.

From what I have read the pregnenolone blood test are not that accurate :-/

Dave

[badrad123]

Thanks FRDave. I agree, the test is somewhat suspect. My last test showed my levels above the range and my doctor told me he thought I had the highest levels in his practice. This was before TRT and any supplements.