what happens if you quit trt(read whole post please)

[powerlifterty16]

one of my biggest fears about trt, is that one day i wont be able to afford it,i wont have insurance covering it, and after my testicles are shut down permanently i will have to stop.

What would happen if I were on trt for 20 years, and then all of a sudden I had to stop it? Would my testosterone go to 0? Would I lose any muscle I had and just turn to bone and fat, or possibly die from having 0 testosterone? I'm serious here lol.

I'm also scared I may have testicular cancer....I feel some movable things in my scrotum...I actually started feeling them in august, don't know if they've gotten bigger, but nervous about that....seems my right testicle is very small now a days too....like it's atrophied.

fyi, im 23, and have a history of low testosterone, and symptoms. I have never taken steroids before,/smoked/drank and even though a testosterone specialist offered to put me on trt when i was 19-20 i declined....because he didnt seem to know what he was doing.(dr barry gordon) he was rude too vitamin d3 and b12 have helped my test go up a lot but it's still in the 400s as of a few years ago(gave up on dr's since then but going to go back this week bc of the possibility of testicular cancers ....i've had the lump since around august i think.

i'm in nj if anybody knows good drs. I've heard shippen is good but he's pretty far.

[2Sox]

If you haven't yet seen one, first thing is to find a good urologist in your area and get a complete examination with blood work - and have your testicles looked at to find out for sure what's going on. You don't want to do anything before you get the results of this exam.

Maybe you can say more about your "history" of low testosterone.

[Trific]

Welcome!

Maybe you have a varicocele, lots of guys do:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicocele

[powerlifterty16]

I would say right now my main concern is just making sure I dont have cancer, and then after that, I'd like to look into the low test. Unfortunately I'm on medicaid, so I'm going to a primary care dr. It will be my first visit with her, and I dont want her to think I'm after steroids. I also don't want her to discount my symptoms since i'm 6'2 205 pounds and I would like to think i have some muscle(i have been lifting for a decade though and it's been an incredibly slow process). The dr im seeing according to reviews online has won patient's choice, and compassionate dr award''

anyway, I'll go into my history, sure. I started lifting weights at the age of 15 and one month due to being tired of being skinny. I was 5'8 110 pounds and could not even do one pushup. I did bodyweight stuff for 2 months, and then at about 15 and 3 months I went to the gym. I kid you not, I couldnt even do one rep of the empty bar for bench. I didnt squat or dl back then...but after a year of building my upper body, i tried to dl 135 and it was hard lol...i was 6'0 130 at the time. As a senior in highschool, i was 6'2 160, and i maintained that weight despite my best efforts to grow. I finally asked my primary doctor at 18 to test my testosterone. This guy was an old school quack, that I had been seeing since I was a child. I only realized his quackery when he told me that my 270 test level at 18 was fine. The range was 240-900 or so? idk..it was a quest test lol. He did say my vitamin d was low though....I took 2000 units for a bottle, felt good gained weight to 179 and gained 25 pounds on my lfits that hadn't moved in years. Bumped it up to 10k units/day and have been taking that ever since. Got my test levels rechecked at an endo, and was in the 440? range. I got another level checked a year or so later at 440 or so...and another level checked when i went to columbia to a neuro endo at 535. That was the highest level that I physically saw. I was also in correspondence with ''testosterone junkie'' dr e barry gordon. He ordered me a testosterone test via fax without me even meeting him. He neevr sent me the results but claimed i was in the 600s, although he still begged me to take trt lol. I haven't had a blood test in atleast 2 years?

FYI, i plateaued again at 179 pounds, and even declined down to 169. That was when I added methyl b12 10-15k mcg/day. That slowed my metabolism down a lot and im not 200-205.

I've suffered with migraines, low energy, incredibly slow muscle and strength gain, poor facial/body hair growth, i used to have an ok libido, but it seems to be getting worse. I also have mental fog, inability to focus, and I have shyness/anxiety. I'm basically a beta male LOL. I don't work now, and usually am forced to nap in the middle of the day from being tired. I don't leave my couch much of the day either.

[powerlifterty16]

Maybe you have a varicocele, lots of guys do:

man I hope so. I have been looking into that. If I were to have one, the pioneers of micro variocele surgery are in nyc/nj and i can get that bastard removed and be a testosterone machine lol.
btw my post was marked as spam because you had a url in it, and new member cant post urls. This forum should distinguish between quoted urls and originally posted urls lol.

[powerlifterty16]

but yeah, if one fo you guys stopped taking the test, what would happen to you? I assume you guys make 0 test now. Would you just lose all of your muscle, and die? I mean I don't see how you can survive on no testosterone.

[powerlifterty16]

oh, and i was considering requesting clomid for an alternative to trt to see if i can raise my natural test and make my balls bigger /

[2Sox]

I had a brief experience in Dr. Gordon's practice in Brooklyn. His protocols seem to be outdated and careless.

[Trific]

but yeah, if one fo you guys stopped taking the test, what would happen to you? I assume you guys make 0 test now. Would you just lose all of your muscle, and die? I mean I don't see how you can survive on no testosterone.

I haven't heard of 0 test so far...one would almost have to be castrated to have 0....most have above 200 usually and if they come off test they can sometimes get back to that. Clomid is an option for you.

[powerlifterty16]

the spam feature is very frustrating. when i went to gordon, he told me that e doesnt increase with t, and that i can do a trial of t and come off of it with no ill effects. he also was anti e blockers or h.c.g

[powerlifterty16]

i get very nervous when i go to the drs, because they never listen. i want the dr to run my thyroid numbers, my free test, total test, and an ultrasensitive estrogen, vit d and b12

How do i educate her on the ultrasensitive estrogen? When i tried to get that ordered years ago the dr said regular e2 is fine.

[Trific]

Yah, 2SOX was telling us that Dr. Gordon is old school.

Good luck on convincing any doc of anything, but here is that info:

• Estradiol (specify “sensitive” assay for males) - E-Sensitive 140244 - CPT Code 82670

Sometimes we just give up and go to a lab and order our own tests.

[ctenosaura]

Geez dude, your 23. In twenty years you'll be 43. I started TRT at 50. That tells me one thing, there is something else going on with your system and you may need an endocrine MD and not a TRT doc at this stage. You should be a testosterone monster at 23. Get blood work and and seek a MD specializing in hormones and not one that treats old ****ers like me trying to regain something of their youth.

[2Sox]

ct,
You got that right!

powerlifterty16,
Over the course of about 12 years, I've established a relationship with my allergist and we have become friends. I see him once a month for allergy shots. Essentially he's been my GP and has run blood work on me annually for my check up. If I need extra blood work, I ask him and he writes the script because he's a decent guy. He's done other nice things like this for me. My insurance covers it. I'm lucky.

If you have a family doctor you can turn to like this, give it a try. I'm sure whatever lab you go to the guys on this forum could give you the appropriate codes for what you need to get done. Then you'll have a copy of your labs and you can find a TRT doc. BUT, big BUT - find a good endocrinologist/urologist and get checked up.

I finally found Ageless Men's Health in Manhattan. Took my first shot of test cyp, hcg and pill of anastrozole on Friday. (They found my E2 level from that 400mg shot from Gordon 2 weeks previous was 38! My total was 667 and I was still feeling like crap! It's no wonder. The PA there called me an "E converter".) Their cost is not bad and their support seems to be excellent. $210 a month all meds and bloods inclusive.

[VTX1800]

Get to the doc Monday morning and get that stress off your shoulders.

[powerlifterty16]

Get to the doc Monday morning and get that stress off your shoulders.

probably going to the doc's on wed thurs or friday, I like having someone go to the doc with me, since i always get intimidated by the doctor's telling me im normal...i like the support that having someone there brings. My dad is not available until wed thurs or friday, I dont think ill have the gall to argue about her testing me properly without him...and if she says ''you're 23 no need to test testosterone ill break down in tears there LOL''....not really my approach is going to be tot tell her that i have a history of low testosterone, and that a testosterone expert was going to put me on trt before my insurance changed. That should get me some credibility. I'll probably also say that gordon reccomends sensitive estrogen asssay and bring in an article from online. Is it necessary to do both free and bioavailable t? arent they the same thing? bio just has loosely bound?

also, i had a question. I know yu are supposed to take the testosterone test in the morning, since your levels are the highest, but wouldnt it be smarter for me to do it in the middle of the day? For instance, if my testosterone is 500 at 9 am and 300 at 12 and 175 at 9pm dont i deserve trt? Im not trying to trick the system...im just trying to get an accurate measure.

but yeah any thoughts on the origianl quesiton about whether someone would die/turn into a woman off of trt would be cool noone addressed it haha
thanks.
oh and does trt help with shyness/anxiety?

[Trific]

Is it necessary to do both free and bioavailable t? arent they the same thing? bio just has loosely bound?

also, i had a question. I know yu are supposed to take the testosterone test in the morning, since your levels are the highest, but wouldnt it be smarter for me to do it in the middle of the day? For instance, if my testosterone is 500 at 9 am and 300 at 12 and 175 at 9pm dont i deserve trt? Im not trying to trick the system...im just trying to get an accurate measure.

but yeah any thoughts on the origianl quesiton about whether someone would die/turn into a woman off of trt would be cool noone addressed it haha
thanks.
oh and does trt help with shyness/anxiety?

I don't think I'd get the bioavailable just to save $.
Hah, I don't want to comment on if I think you should have your total early in the day or late.
I said that most guys don't fall below 200. Guys on TRT that go to prison don't get to keep having their TRT I've heard but they still live....mostly lay around though...but well, it is prison.
Yes, I think trt can and probably would help with both shyness and anxiety.

[powerlifterty16]

I don't think I'd get the bioavailable just to save $.
Hah, I don't want to comment on if I think you should have your total early in the day or late.
I said that most guys don't fall below 200. Guys on TRT that go to prison don't get to keep having their TRT I've heard but they still live....mostly lay around though...but well, it is prison.
Yes, I think trt can and probably would help with both shyness and anxiety.

i thought most prisoners had high testosterone lol.
can i ask why you didnt want to comment on the time of the labs? I want to make sure i do this right lol. I'm just going to get the labs at quest with the prescription

[Trific]

can i ask why you didnt want to comment on the time of the labs?

Because if I say yah cheat your total down...crash it so you get treated...well then Keikel will pound on me and have you seen his avi lately? LOL He believes one should not tweak it lower and that one should take the blood draw close to 8am.
If you wanted to lower it I've heard you could take the blood draw later in the day if the doc will let you, stay up all night the night before, ejaculate the night before, probably a cold or the flu would knock it lower too...soy sauce...drinking....

A case could be made that probably some of the guys are in prison because they had low test and felt so terrible that they did stupid things that put them in prison.

If you have a varicocele, fixing it might raise your test levels.

[powerlifterty16]

Because if I say yah cheat your total down...crash it so you get treated...well then Keikel will pound on me and have you seen his avi lately? LOL He believes one should not tweak it lower and that one should take the blood draw close to 8am.
If you wanted to lower it I've heard you could take the blood draw later in the day if the doc will let you, stay up all night the night before, ejaculate the night before, probably a cold or the flu would knock it lower too...soy sauce...drinking....

A case could be made that probably some of the guys are in prison because they had low test and felt so terrible that they did stupid things that put them in prison.

If you have a varicocele, fixing it might raise your test levels.

ahh ok, yeah thanks for explaining. I defininitly am not looking to cheat, the test, but get an accurate draw. If i were looking to cheat the test, id stay up all night squatting, and masturbating. I am just saying, i dont think taking the absolute highest reading is accurate, and midday is a true measure, you know? I think what i'll do is wake up around 810and take it around 1., I don''t think i'd be happy taking it first thing in the morning bc i dont feel it is accurate! HA.
i do hope i have a variecele though, although i dont want anyone performing surgery on my nuts but meh w/e bro lol.

[powerlifterty16]

ok now i have a problem...I dont know what to do. It seems there are two decent drs in my insurance plan, one with whom I already have an appt with , but another who i'm thinking of going to instead. The reason I'm considering the other is because it says he does ant aging on his profile.

Here is his page....does he sound pro trt?
he is almost 60 years old lol....and he went to a foreign medical school
agelesssolutionsmdDOTcom/about_dr._goldberg.html

[powerlifterty16]

Take out the dot

[Trific]

ok now i have a problem...I dont know what to do. It seems there are two decent drs in my insurance plan, one with whom I already have an appt with , but another who i'm thinking of going to instead. The reason I'm considering the other is because it says he does ant aging on his profile.

Here is his page....does he sound pro trt?
he is almost 60 years old lol....and he went to a foreign medical school
agelesssolutionsmdDOTcom/about_dr._goldberg.html

Don't let Kelkel see that he believes in the HCG diet....LOL.....but yah, an antiaging doc should sure be pro TRT....but try calling him.

[powerlifterty16]

Does he look anti aging from that description...sometimes people use antiaging loosly. I dont know much about the hcg diet, but if it's bad maybe he is too old school?
The dr i currently have an appt with has high ratings as well and is female...is a female better? I sure would rather have her examine me though lol...idk if i should cancel my appt with her.

[Trific]

Does he look anti aging from that description...sometimes people use antiaging loosly. I dont know much about the hcg diet, but if it's bad maybe he is too old school?
The dr i currently have an appt with has high ratings as well and is female...is a female better? I sure would rather have her examine me though lol...idk if i should cancel my appt with her.

Alot of people believe that the HCG diet is a scam and that any doc that pushes that diet should lose their license.
I look at it like hey, cool, now he will have the HCG to sell you for the TRT if you do that, because we use HCG to keep our nuts happy.
I don't think you can guess who would likely give you better care by what sex they are...

[powerlifterty16]

hmm well i guess on the plus side, he sounds like he would be more open to giving me trt, and ordering the blood work, but on the other hand i think the female dr would be better for healthcare. I think i'll give the female dr a try, and if i dont like her i can always try this guy....a female knows how to do a testicle exam as well as a male right? How do they teach that in medical school? She would be able to feel a verecele and diagnose it right?

[Trific]

hmm well i guess on the plus side, he sounds like he would be more open to giving me trt, and ordering the blood work, but on the other hand i think the female dr would be better for healthcare. I think i'll give the female dr a try, and if i dont like her i can always try this guy....a female knows how to do a testicle exam as well as a male right? How do they teach that in medical school? She would be able to feel a verecele and diagnose it right?

If she is certified to do the work then yes she should know how to do it. Give her a whirl then and tell us what she finds.

[powerlifterty16]

ahh ok, yeah thanks for explaining. I defininitly am not looking to cheat, the test, but get an accurate draw. If i were looking to cheat the test, id stay up all night squatting, and masturbating. I am just saying, i dont think taking the absolute highest reading is accurate, and midday is a true measure, you know? I think what i'll do is wake up around 810and take it around 1., I don''t think i'd be happy taking it first thing in the morning bc i dont feel it is accurate! HA.
i do hope i have a variecele though, although i dont want anyone performing surgery on my nuts but meh w/e bro lol.

not to be a pain in the ass, but i was wondering if anyone else could give some input on this^^^^^^


also for thyroid is tsh, t3, and t4, good enough or do i need free t3 and t4..i jsut am worried if iask for too many tests ill get the cold shoulder.

[powerlifterty16]

i feel like a hypocrite though. Im sure that the anti aging guy would give me trt, and i doubt this woman will....but in the end, you guys think any doc who gives hcg diet advice is garbage so i might as well see what this woman has to offer.

If she is certified to do the work then yes she should know how to do it. Give her a whirl then and tell us what she finds.

[Trific]

i feel like a hypocrite though. Im sure that the anti aging guy would give me trt, and i doubt this woman will....but in the end, you guys think any doc who gives hcg diet advice is garbage so i might as well see what this woman has to offer.

It kinda depends on what you really want to do....you are so young you should be trying to avoid TRT and have your nuts checked first.

[steroid.com 1]

Yah, 2SOX was telling us that Dr. Gordon is old school.

Good luck on convincing any doc of anything, but here is that info:

• Estradiol (specify “sensitive” assay for males) - E-Sensitive 140244 - CPT Code 82670

Sometimes we just give up and go to a lab and order our own tests.

Are you talking about Dr. Mark Gordon?

If so, he is probably one of the worlds top Interventional Endocrinologists.

[Trific]

Are you talking about Dr. Mark Gordon?

If so, he is probably one of the worlds top Interventional Endocrinologists.

No, this is E. Barry in NYC...

[powerlifterty16]

if it is found i have no vrecele, and my test comes back at 500 or below, is clomid my best option?

[powerlifterty16]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2lr1NvknM4

No, this is Barry E. in NYC...

[powerlifterty16]

just my luck, i switch my dang insurance, and the female dr doesnt take it...and what's worse is the stupid receptionist said she did...some real bullshit..guess i have to cancel my appt urgh

[powerlifterty16]

it turns out that female doctor does take my insurance.....so i'll probably go to her....still thinking of the anti aging dr though. Here is his protovol on rtt, id appreciate if you guys can look..he is big on patches and gels lol
http://www.agelesssolutionsmd.com/men_menopause_.html

[powerlifterty16]

ok nvm ill just suffer =(

[powerlifterty16]

ahh ok, yeah thanks for explaining. I defininitly am not looking to cheat, the test, but get an accurate draw. If i were looking to cheat the test, id stay up all night squatting, and masturbating. I am just saying, i dont think taking the absolute highest reading is accurate, and midday is a true measure, you know? I think what i'll do is wake up around 810and take it around 1., I don''t think i'd be happy taking it first thing in the morning bc i dont feel it is accurate! HA.
i do hope i have a variecele though, although i dont want anyone performing surgery on my nuts but meh w/e bro lol.

not to be a pain in the ass, but i was wondering if anyone else could give some input on this^^^^^^


also for thyroid is tsh, t3, and t4, good enough or do i need free t3 and t4..i jsut am worried if iask for too many tests ill get the cold shoulder.

if it is found i have no vrecele, and my test comes back at 500 or below, is clomid my best option?

it turns out that female doctor does take my insurance.....so i'll probably go to her....still thinking of the anti aging dr though. Here is his protovol on rtt, id appreciate if you guys can look..he is big on patches and gels lol
http://www.agelesssolutionsmd.com/men_menopause_.html

ok nvm ill just suffer =(

that feel..

[powerlifterty16]

that feel..

...

[powerlifterty16]

anyone?