High E2 or Low E2? - Or something else.

**2Sox** · 03-03-2013, 10:14 AM

The new clinic I just started with gave me my first treatment on Friday:
(Two weeks previous to this I had gotten a shot of 400mg test cyp from another doctor (who I quit) - no ai, no hcg . I had crashed terribly from this treatment.)

100mg test cyp
250mg HCG
.5mg anastrozole

This was based on bw as follows:
667 total test.
38 E2

Today I'm feeling really weak and foggy. Since the symptoms for high E2 and low E2 are similar, my question is this: Have my E2 levels gone up too much or has the ai lowered them too much? Or is there something else I'm missing here?

Took 50mg DHEA and Pregnenolone last night. Could this have anything to do with this?

Going to call the clinic tomorrow to give them an update but it would be good to get an idea of what's going on the the meantime.

**Trific** · 03-03-2013, 10:26 AM

My guess is the AI might have knocked down the E2 too much...how much AI are you taking per week? You might not need anymore while taking 100mg test per week...That 38 E2 wasn't too long ago was it?
Maybe if you know how much AI you've taken since the 38 E2 BW that might help us.

**Rusty11** · 03-03-2013, 10:34 AM

Do you really think anyone here can give you an answer to your question? Any comments are merely speculation by ppl on a website. Since you are going to clinic tomorrow, ask for bw, specifically e2. That's the only way to find out what's going on.
You've got 10 threads going. It's hard to keep track of your situation.

**2Sox** · 03-03-2013, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Trific

My guess is the AI might have knocked down the E2 too much...how much AI are you taking per week? You might not need anymore while taking 100mg test per week...That 38 E2 wasn't too long ago was it?
Maybe if you know how much AI you've taken since the 38 E2 BW that might help us.

The .5mg taken on Friday along with the shot was the first dose I ever took. (I posted that above.) I'm supposed to take another .5mg tomorrow night.

The BW results just came in the day before the shot.

**2Sox** · 03-03-2013, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Rusty11

Do you really think anyone here can give you an answer to your question? Any comments are merely speculation by ppl on a website.

The answer is, of course not. I know - we all know that answers here are speculation based on experience and personal knowledge.

[/QUOTE] Since you are going to clinic tomorrow, ask for bw, specifically e2. That's the only way to find out what's going on.
You've got 10 threads going. It's hard to keep track of your situation.[/QUOTE]

Good suggestion. Will be visiting the clinic on Friday - not tomorrow.

Ten threads? Really? I try to post specific questions and keep on topic when I open a thread . My apologies if there is any confusion. Please point out to me where I can do better on this. That would be useful to me. PM me if you like. Thanks.

A note: This subject is so interesting, I thought this would be good question to bring up. I wanted to get the benefit of the members experience on this. (I always try to do a search first to see if I could find it in the archives and often it comes back with nothing - or I'm just not able to find the thread.)

**Rusty11** · 03-03-2013, 11:04 AM

Nothing for you to do better.

And, I wasn't trying to be rude. My concern is that I don't want you, or anyone else for that matter, to give too much weight to what is stated here.....ESPECIALLY when only good old fashion bw is the only true answer. Now, regarding the threads, it might be more efficient to put all questions in one. I know the world of trt is confusing and asking questions is why these experts are here....they love to help. Didn't mean to imply that questioning is bad.

edit: Nor do I mean that folks giving advice, shouldn't.

**steroid.com 1** · 03-03-2013, 04:43 PM

2Sox, you're a good dude man and we all want to help you...make no mistake on that.

Rusty is right, we try to keep everything in one thread (case if you will) so we can keep track of details of each member in one thread not many.

I answer so many questions and am in and out of so many threads that it's very difficult for me to remember one members specific situation unless I can skim through the thread to remind me of what's going on.

I think it's possible your E2 has been supressed...as noted, AI's are very powerful antagonists in men.

**2Sox** · 03-03-2013, 04:58 PM

g,
I'm good with that. At this point, I'm not sure where to go! lol

Maybe I'll just stick with this thread and go with it. This one has my latest numbers. What do you think?

**2Sox** · 03-03-2013, 05:05 PM

I'm calling the clinic tomorrow but I'd like to know your opinions to have more information before I make that call. So, I'm asking for a suggestion on this one. Skip my next dose of anastrazole due Monday night, or take it and see what happens, or halve it. I took that shot of 100mg of cyp on Friday morning and it's like nothing happened except I'm just more tired. Crazy.

**HRTstudent** · 03-03-2013, 05:39 PM

Really, when youre just starting out on TRT you need frequent bloodwork. Otherwise, you're always in a state of confusion, trying to figure out what might be happening.

Short of gyno, it's sometimes hard to tell if your E2 is creeping up or crashing down.

If anything, I would change nothing and just get bloodwork done soon. Too often I see people making rapid changes without bloodwork, and that just invites more variables and further delays finding that elusive "sweet spot."

**2Sox** · 03-03-2013, 05:58 PM

HRT,
Very good point. I'm seeing that blood work is the key.

Just sent a brief email to the PA director of the clinic describing to her what I've described here to you. This way she'll be ready for my call. I requested blood work too.

**zerodarkthirty** · 03-03-2013, 07:35 PM

I feel for you, 2Sox. I've been on TRT since January and it has been anything but fun. I've had high E2, low E2 and everything in between. Currently on compounded cream, but switching to shots tomorrow hopefully. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further. Any panic attacks?

**joebailey1271** · 03-03-2013, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

Really, when youre just starting out on TRT you need frequent bloodwork. Otherwise, you're always in a state of confusion, trying to figure out what might be happening.

Short of gyno, it's sometimes hard to tell if your E2 is creeping up or crashing down.

If anything, I would change nothing and just get bloodwork done soon. Too often I see people making rapid changes without bloodwork, and that just invites more variables and further delays finding that elusive "sweet spot."

2sox, go with what HRT said, I would have sworn my e was low just by the symptoms, But infact it was 46. I was taking .5mg and based off symptoms thought it was low, so i decreased it of course and u can probably guess the rest

**Trific** · 03-03-2013, 08:03 PM

Another thing to consider is that injected T takes longer to stabilize than the other forms of T delivery....it can take 4 to 6 weeks at the same dose to get to the level it's heading to at that dose...

**2Sox** · 03-03-2013, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Trific

Another thing to consider is that injected T takes longer to stabilize than the other forms of T delivery....it can take 4 to 6 weeks at the same dose to get to the level it's heading to at that dose...

That really sucks. What's the explanation for this?

Took every transdermal delivery there is, and pellets, and I responded in a day or two. Felt great. But no one would give me hcg or ai's so I went with shots with a clinic that would.

**Trific** · 03-03-2013, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

That really sucks. What's the explanation for this?

Took every transdermal delivery there is, and pellets, and I responded in a day or two. Felt great. But no one would give me hcg or ai's so I went with shots with a clinic that would.

Now we're gettin somewhere....you've been spoiled by the fast actions of the other delivery systems...read this thread and see if you can find the answers you are seeking and if not we'll chat some more:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...T-work-you-ask

**Trific** · 03-03-2013, 11:53 PM

I glanced at that thread but didn't notice what I was looking for.....It's because of the esters in the Test injection that slows down it's delivery...it's so one doesn't have to inject every day....I think that you could inject some without the delaying ester but that would negate the good part of not having to inject every day...we suggest every 3 or 3.5 or maybe even 5 days. In Europe they have Nebido and that is an injection like every quarter of the year, so only 4 injections (unless you are Ren and nebido doesn't work for him as suggested) a year....instead of a daily application like a gel.

**2Sox** · 03-04-2013, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Trific

Now we're gettin somewhere....you've been spoiled by the fast actions of the other delivery systems...read this thread and see if you can find the answers you are seeking and if not we'll chat some more:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...T-work-you-ask

Just read the thread. Thanks. And thanks for the explanation. I definitely am spoiled by the fast action of the transdermals.

I've been thinking of staying with the shots until I can get a reliable, legitimate source for hcg and ai's. Actually, some folks on the forum have been helping me out with this already. (Just need a source for ai's.) Then I'll go back to daily gels. Enough of this up and down shite.

**Trific** · 03-04-2013, 07:16 PM

You're welcome!
You might adjust to and even like injections in time...
Up in the top right of the page, our sponsor ar-r has a liquid AI that's suppose to work well.

**2Sox** · 03-05-2013, 05:39 PM

Trific,

Thanks for the lead. I'll look into it.

**2Sox** · 03-15-2013, 01:34 PM

I thought I'd post this information for some feedback.

Just took my third test cyp shot today along with my third shot of Hcg . Starting to feel very good, I think mainly from the effects of the Hcg. My stones had been asleep for the last seven months and I'm beginning to remember what they felt like when they were awake and at work. I really feel more like a whole man and now I know what you other guys have been talking about - and how important this is. I couldn't see doing TRT without Hcg - ever.

I'm not sold on injections yet. My total was taken on Wed. and it came back 875. That may sound high but it's the high side of mediocre to me. I was running in the 600's -700's on Androgel and I felt like Superman. I remember Dr. Crisler saying something about the greater amounts of DHT produced by gel addresses ED issues better. I can attest to that. My "member" was jumping to attention more when I was on Androgel! Can someone explain how this DHT connection works?

Gonna do the shots for a few more weeks just to be able to make a scientific comparison, but I'll likely go back to Androgel eventually and supplement with Hcg.

I gotta say that this whole thing has been an adventure. :-)

Edit: Dr. Crisler advises to wait 24 hours after the shot to take the a.i. Can someone tell me what is the reason for this? I'll hold off on my Arimidex until I hear an answer. Thanks.

**fireeater49** · 03-15-2013, 02:39 PM

Brother,
In my personal experience (4-5 month TRT) need to give it time for your body to adjust. BW is a good followup but remember its a snapshot of what is going on at that moment of the blood draw. Check your diet (carbs early in day, low carb, simple vs complex, possible wheat/gluten reactions/stress(job kids wife G/F). For me personally it really has not been a quick, huge explosion of feeling great, strength, etc etc. It has been getting better despite my current Dr program (working on new dr). With that said, could it be better? I am sure of that. Am I better than having no TRT (minus the boys being sore) no.

I think of TRT like my workouts. Its best to stay on one awhile to see how the body improves and adjust to it. If you keep bouncing around you will end up with falling expectations. Think of it like this.........it is going to be your life now on TRT. You have a whole lifetime to get it right. Patience and education. Good luck!

**2Sox** · 03-15-2013, 03:40 PM

Fireeater (I love that handle)

Got that right. Got lots of time to wait and see and I have pretty good health habits. I don't drink alcohol - at all, and I don't eat wheat. I'm 155lbs soaking wet and a former long distance runner who walks his dogs 3.5 miles a day now. I'm a retired school teacher and a full time beekeeper - in season. Work stress is a thing of the past. My new stress if finding things to do when the bees aren't flying in winter.

Now from my experience, a few days after I started with transdermals, I started to become a new man. I slept better, my mind worked better, I had more energy, and I was thinking about sex more than I had in years - and sex was much better, and I felt closer to my wife. This was before I ever took a shot of test cyp. Test cyp has not yet shook my world. It's wait and see and I have a very open mind about it.

I'm a trained scientist and I'm approaching this as one.

Edit: Any answers to my questions in post #21 above?