Average 29 year old male needing some honest advice and assistance

[Anon2016]

Hi guys,

none of you will recognize my username as I've signed up just now specifically to ask for advice about a physiological problem that I'm currently facing; nevertheless, I hope that some of you will be able to assist me.

When I was younger (in my late teens / early 20's) I was really into the bodybuilding scene and always ate well and trained hard, although I never really made any significant gains. I feel I should add (as there probably is some correlation between this and my current situation) that when I was 19 years of age, I did do a low-dose 12 week cycle followed by a month or so of PCT, although I don't remember exactly what the PCT was. Nonetheless, this was one of the least thought-out, poorest choices that I have made in my life, and now in hindsight, I sincerely regret my decision to mess around with my hormones and with my body. Unfortunately however, regret won't fix or change anything. On the bright side, over the past 10 years I've been consistent with my training and nutrition and now, for an average 29 year old male, think that I'm doing alright.

Anyhow, over the past 3 or 4 years I've noticed a gradual drop in many areas of my physiological well-being; particularly in my ability to sleep well, my energy levels, my moods, my strength and of course, my sex-drive. 2 years ago, my GP referred me to an endocrinologist here in Sydney, Australia to get some blood-work done and to see whether everything was in check. The tests showed that my testosterone levels were practically non-existent (both resting and free testosterone) and the endo then sent me off for an MRI to ensure that I didn't have any brain tumors that may have been putting pressure on the pituitary gland and preventing it from secreting hormones into my blood stream. Fortunately, the results came clear and back to the endo I went to get the final verdict as to what she suggests I do about my problem. She prescribed me with a one month supply of something called Testogel (50mg) and told me that I should use one sachet per day and go back to see her again in two months time to get some more blood tests done and to assess whether the medication had indeed raised my testosterone levels from their alarmingly low state.

Now I have never been a fan of using any type of serious medication and after researching Testogel, it became immediately apparent that this wasn't just some lady-da stuff that you could use without some serious prior consideration (although I'm sure there are a lot of people that would have jumped right on it). After doing my research, I decided not to ever start using the Testogel and now, 2 years later, I still have the stuff sitting in my medicine cabinet, un-opened. Unfortunately however, since that time, 2 years have passed and my condition hasn't gotten any better; in fact, it may have gotten worse. I always feel tired and lethargic, I often feel depressed, and my sex-drive is kaput. Fortunately, I have an amazingly understanding and caring fiance that has endured and continued to support me through this, however I feel like I owe it to her, and also to myself to no longer ignore this problem and to do something about it.

All those years back when I went to see the endo, I mentioned to her that I had heard that it was possible in some cases to stimulate the hypothalamus and to re-kick-start the production of natural testosterone, however she shot me down and told me that the only option was to go onto hormone replacement therapy, which to be honest, I wasn't entirely satisfied with. Recently I've been doing more research around the the internet and on bodybuilding forums, and have tried to acquire as much useful information as I can about how people get their body to start producing testosterone again naturally. Of course, my situation and the situation of these bodybuilders is completely different as their cases have been brought about by the usage of other medications, but nevertheless, the process of getting the body to start making testosterone again after it has stopped, must in many ways be the same.

The most common recommendations that I see on many of the forums is to use Nolvadex which I believe is used in the treatment of breast cancer (this seems odd to me), Clomid, and hCG. I've researched all of these three medications and how they are supposed to suppress estrogen and re-ignite the production of natural testosterone, however I don't know anybody that has actually tried any of these methods so I can only go by what I read on the internet; which, in many cases is shady at best. I've made another appointment to see the endocrinologist again however in the meantime I'm going to continue to do as much research as I can as I'm determined to find a solution to my problem without having to resort to the usage of steroids or any other hormone replacement therapy.

To those of you that have taken the time to read my rather lengthy post, thank you; I'm really hoping that some of you will be able to give me some worthwhile advice about my situation.

Many thanks,

Anon2016

[lovbyts]

Your best option is to make an appointment with another urologist and tell them everything you just told us.
Clomid, and/or hCG would be your best choice under doctors supervision. I would suggest using the HCG before trying the Clomid or a combination of both.

The test gel would have probably worked at least temporarily but you are right to seek other alternatives.

[Anon2016]

Thank you for your reply mate.

Would you recommend a urologist over an endocrinologist?

[lovbyts]

man that's a tough one because it all depends on where you are and the doctor. Some places it seems Endo's are better and other Urologist. My personal experience is the Urologist I saw was 10x better than my Endo in regards to being open to hcg, clomid, E2 testing and the works. My endo was here is your 6mo rx for test and see you next year. Not necessarily at bad thing depending on what you are looking for.

I would try the Urologist and see how they are. You should be able to call and find out their basic protocol if they typically prescribe HCG/Clomid or just test.

[Anon2016]

man that's a tough one because it all depends on where you are and the doctor. Some places it seems Endo's are better and other Urologist. My personal experience is the Urologist I saw was 10x better than my Endo in regards to being open to hcg, clomid, E2 testing and the works. My endo was here is your 6mo rx for test and see you next year. Not necessarily at bad thing depending on what you are looking for.

I would try the Urologist and see how they are. You should be able to call and find out their basic protocol if they typically prescribe HCG/Clomid or just test.

I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what they say.

Thanks a lot man.

[lovbyts]

NP please keep us updated and check back for other opinions.

[Anon2016]

most definitely will mate.

[bullshark99]

Anon, my initial thoughts were HcG as well, but trying to find a competint Dr should be priority number one. Might I add, keep an open mind to TRT if thats whats ultimetly needed, your well being and good health is obviously the objective. Even at your young age of 29, if TRT is truely needed, it may be a godsend, there are much worse things....

[Anon2016]

Thanks Bullshark99.

I wholeheartedly agree that the most important thing at this stage is finding the right doctor, however it seems like in my part of the world the number of reputable urologists is minimal at best and those that I can find are terribly far from where I live. Nevertheless, I'll be giving a few of them a call tomorrow to see if I can schedule an appointment some time soon.

As for TRT, I suppose you are right, and if it comes down to that then I may not have any other choice .. however until I'm as certain as I can possibly be, I really want to try and exhaust as many of my other options first. I'm praying that I'll come across something that works but I'm not feeling so confident that I will.

[bullshark99]

Anon, I feel ya, not only do you seem very sincere but I too went thru a similiar contemplation unfortunetly after I started treatment. At the end of the day, I decieded it was worth "staying on treatment". Someone has a similiar thread going about past mistakes, I too have regrets because I listened to someone who sold me a bill of goods, now my "fate' has been deceided because when I tried to "restart" to put it lightly, it didnt go over very well. Guess my point to you, take comfort in knowing you are not on this journey alone and more important, TRT can be the solution, not the problem! Good luck, and peace out.

[HRTstudent]

First of all, if you want to learn about bodybuilding then read bodybuilding forums, but if you want to learn about HRT then read HRT forums. Don't mix the two.

(I do realize this is a bodybuilding site, but this particular forum is strictly HRT - i.e. medical and prescribed use.)

Now, depending on what's important to you, it might be worth doing TRT or one of those alternatives that you mention. You didn't post actual blood work, but it sounds like your testosterone was truly abysmal. This might or might not mean that these other therapies will not work. We don't know. We can't know until you and your doctors figure out certain things.

If you have true damage to your testes, your best or only option might be testosterone. But if your brain simply cannot send a strong enough signal, then that is an entirely different situation.

There is a post on Dr Dach's blog about clomid stimulation tests. He seems to be a great doctor and he has a really nice web site. Check it out, read what experts in the field are saying (and ignore bodybuilding forums and talk about "post cycle therapy"... this will only confuse you further), and do your best to find the right doctor to treat you.

[Anon2016]

Thanks for your replies guys.

When I saw the endo a while back, all of the tests conducted indicated that my testes were in good health and of a healthy size and that the problem was more likely to be caused by a weak signal from the brain as you mentioned in your previous post.

I will check the website you suggested however from what I've gathered so far, the usage of clomid and the like is not common here in Australia and the doctors that I gave spoken to about this have all told me that I have no idea what I am talking about, which is terribly frustrating

[Trific]

I'm interested in that topic of weak signaling...I wonder in the long term how many people are truly helped by something like clomid or do they usually all end up on TRT within a couple of years anyway....and is there anything better than clomid out there to bump up the signal...like a peptide?

[Anon2016]

I too, wonder the same thing mate.

[Trific]

I started a new thread about signaling to get more attention about it in case any want to discuss it.