Important Test From LabCorp!!!

[Nate02]

I didn't test either of these before TRT. But on three weeks of Androgel 1.62% these are tests I just received today! Lab Test Results

Lab Test Results


Growth Hormone, Serum <0.1 0.0-2.9 Normal!


Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 438 83-344ng/mL High!


Estradiol, Sensitive <3 3-70 Low!

What is this about???

[steroid.com 1]

I didn't test either of these before TRT. But on three weeks of Androgel 1.62% these are tests I just received today! Lab Test Results

Lab Test Results


Growth Hormone, Serum <0.1 0.0-2.9 Normal!
This serum level changes through out the day and is hard to pin down. Its primary function is to regulate your metabolism and how you process food for energy so it's a moving target. Did you fast for 12 hours or more before your draw? If this was elevated it usually points to a pituitary tumor.

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 438 83-344ng/mL High!
You're just high in IGF-1 which is a good thing my friend. Many a man would change places with you in a NY second with that score. No HGH for you!


Estradiol, Sensitive <3 3-70 Low!
Your estrogen is way way to low. Are you taking any type of inhibitor???

What is this about???

Bold.

[Trific]

Estradiol, Sensitive <3 3-70 Low!

That'll make a guy feel like dogshit...

[Nate02]

Bold.

Thanks for the response gdevine. Need your advice haha.

I did fast for 12 hours. Okay well thats good news on the HGH. But is the insulin like growth factor a cumulation too? That seems high which I did expect. And the estrogen is way low!!! No I take absolutely nothing! Just Synthroid and Androgel. Could the fasting affect that? I wouldn't think so.

That'll make a guy feel like dogshit...

I guess so. But I would of never expected it! That means I have low t and low e. How does that even happen??

I should add... In my other thread you'll see that me estrogen levels is normal. But clearly my estradiol is low.

[steroid.com 1]

Not to put a scare into you but you may want to talk to your Doctor about further testing of your liver.

Your IGF-1 is very elevated. IGF-1 is produced mainly by the liver via Growth hormone and you are very elevated.

Estrogen is produced via aromitization where there is usually high levels serum levels (or spikes) of testosterone and you are almost at the very bottom of the reference range. What is your current testosterone serum levels and how much weight are you carrying.

Your Growth hormone is produced in the pituitary gland and released into released the blood stream which then stimulates the liver to produce IGF-1. But look how low your Growth serum level is and how high your IGF-1.

Funky! Who did your labs here and can you post your most recent labs.

I am surprised your Doc didn't say anything about this.

edit: Paragraph three.

[Trific]

You didn't check your Test total on this lab?

It might still be low.

[Nate02]

Not to put a scare into you but you may want to talk to your Doctor about further testing of your liver.

Your IGF-1 is very elevated. IGF-1 is produced mainly by the liver via Growth hormone and you are very elevated.

Estrogen is produced by your liver and you are almost at the very bottom of the reference range. One would suspect that you are not producing enough estrogen in the liver for some reason.

Your Growth hormone is produced in the pituitary gland and released into released the blood stream which then stimulates the liver to produce IGF-1. But look how low your Growth serum level is and how high your IGF-1.

Funky! Who did your labs here and can you post your most recent labs.

I am surprised your Doc didn't say anything about this.

Sorry, should of added. These weren't available when I met with her. Just got them today.

I thought my Growth Hormone was good you said?

And liver function huh? That's interesting. I have occasional jaundice of my hands, mainly after I drink. However, I notice it more now that I am on testosterone. Could the testosterone be causing liver problems? Because as you can see, my normal estrogen at least was normal before testosterone.

And could liver function affect testosterone as well? If I have so little estrogen I am surprised my testosterone level is so high.

My doctor told me my liver looked fine from my other results.

....

Results: Test One- Issued by my Family Doctor

Testosterone , Serum: 265 (348-1197)
"""""
Test Two

TSH: 2.360 (0.450-4.500)
LH: 4.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 1.1 (1.5-12.4)
Testosterone, Serum: 330 (348-1197)
Prolactin: 8.5 (4.0-15.2)
"""""
Test Three- Issued by an Endocrinologist

Free Testosterone(Direct): 9.4 (9.3-26.5)
Testosterone, Total, Lc/Ms: 253.9 (348-1197)
LH: 4.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 1.1 (1.5-12.4)
"""""
Test Four- Issued by an Endocrinologist-- I had been off Prozac for one week at this point. This is the only test I was off it.

Cortisol: 20.8 (2.3-19.4)
TSH: 4.2: (0.450-4.500)

I had an MRI done, and the results came back clear.
"""""
Test Five- Test I requested-- Issued by Family Doctor-- This test was after taking Synthroid 50mcgs

Thyroid Panel With TSH
TSH: 1.930 (0.450-4.500)
Thyroxine (T4): 9.6 (4.5-12.0)
T3 Uptake: 34 (24-39)
Free Thyroxine Index: 3.3 (1.2-4.9)
Thyroid Antibodies
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab: 8 (0-34)
Antithyroglobulin Ab: <20 (0-40)
Luteinizing Hormone (LH): 7.3 (1.7-8.6)
FSH, Serum: 1.3 (1.5-12.4)[/U]
Calcitonin, Serum: <2.0 (0.0-8.4)
Reverse T3, Serum: 21.5 (9.2-24.1)
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy: 32.6 (30.0-100.0)
Triiodothyronine (T3): 115 (71-180)
Estrogens, Total: 83 (40-115)
Ferritin, Serum: 70 (30-400)
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum: 3.7 (2.0-4.4)

Additions (February):

Obviously, my Adrenal Glands are struggling. I wonder how my anxiety and stress come into play.

Salivary Cortisol Test
Morning - 3.8 ng/mL (7.0-10)
Midday - 3.1 ng/mL (3.0-6.0)
Evening - 2.5 ng/mL (2.5-4.0)
Night - 2.2 ng/mL (<1.5)
"""""

Recently, it came to my attention that Gluten Intolerance can cause a wide array of hormonal imbalances. I didn't expect anything, however my T-Transglutaminase (Ttg) lgg is high.

Celiac Disease Comprehensive:
T-Transglutaminase (Ttg) lgg: 8 U/mL (0-5 U/mL)
Immunoglobulin A, Qn, Serum: 102 mg/dL (91-414 mg/dL)
T-Transglutaminase (Ttg) Iga: <2 (0-3)
Deamidated Gliadin Abs, Iga: 3 (0-19)
Deamidated Gliadin Abs, Igg: 6 (0-19)
Endomysial Antibody Iga: Negative
"""""

This test was completed with Androgel 1.62%- 2.5 mgs. I just increased to 3.75 mgs.

Testosterone, Serum: 474 ng/dL (348-1197 mg/dL)
Dihydrotestosterone: 65n g/dL ("Normal")
Estradiol: 20.6 pg/mL (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Free TestosteroneL 19.3 pg/mL (9.3-26.5 pg/mL)

You didn't check your Test total on this lab?

It might still be low.

I moved my test to three pumps. But on two, I test levels of 494. So I assume three put it nicely within range. I just haven't gotten tested again, yet.

[38onTRT]

Jaundice... hmm... After "A" drink, or like a weekly binge?

[Nate02]

Jaundice... hmm... After "A" drink, or like a weekly binge?

I guess it would be considered binging. After 5-8 drinks I'd say. I am a college student. RARELY do it anymore with the health issues though. But drinking more water has seemed to help the jaundice. I dont know...

[wannabeme]

I thought the liver CLEARED excess estrogen, not produced it. Not the case GDevine?

[Trific]

Like to see how you feel if you get your E2 to like 25 and your Test 800+

[Nate02]

Like to see how you feel if you get your E2 to like 25 and your Test 800+

I mean is that something I should look into now? Increasing Estrogen? Or is there something that could cause this all. This is just the worst feeling.. it's like every test that comes back there is just more and more wrong with me. Just makes me feel like a freak.

[Trific]

I'd want to hear from the vets about it but your E2 needs to come up...sooner the better, I just don't know if you should take some flax seed or actually take some estradiol.

[steroid.com 1]

I thought the liver CLEARED excess estrogen, not produced it. Not the case GDevine?

Yea, my bad...that's what happens when you rush and try to get the hell out of the office and not thinking while completing a thought...I am going to edit that error now so it's corrected.

E2 is produced via aromatase activity...geeze I need to slow down...I am LMAO right now.

Thanks man

[Nate02]

I'd want to hear from the vets about it but your E2 needs to come up...sooner the better, I just don't know if you should take some flax seed or actually take some estradiol.

Neither do I. I'm just wondering if something could be causing this all!

Yea, my bad...that's what happens when you rush and try to get the hell out of the office and not thinking while completing a thought...I am going to edit that error now so it's corrected.

E2 is produced via aromatase activity...geeze I need to slow down...I am LMAO right now.

Thanks man

Well good! At least it's probably not my liver then, still wondering about that jaundice though, but where does this leave me? Anything I should look into for this??

Let me ask. Is there someway I could have a pituitary tumor??? I've had an MRI for it before but is it possible the MRI just missed it for unknown reasons or that it could be so small? I don't know. Just hormones are all out of whack, clearly.

And I want to thank all you guys for helping me out...really. There is just so much a doctor is willing to look for or try to look for in my case. Without you guys who knows what would be going on.

[steroid.com 1]

Neither do I. I'm just wondering if something could be causing this all!



Well good! At least it's probably not my liver then, still wondering about that jaundice though, but where does this leave me? Anything I should look into for this??

Let me ask. Is there someway I could have a pituitary tumor??? I've had an MRI for it before but is it possible the MRI just missed it for unknown reasons or that it could be so small? I don't know. Just hormones are all out of whack, clearly.

And I want to thank all you guys for helping me out...really. There is just so much a doctor is willing to look for or try to look for in my case. Without you guys who knows what would be going on.

The high IGF-1 is not good. It means something is producing to much Growth Hormone in your body despite the fact that the GH itself was normal or even low for that matter.

I would seek out a neuro-endocrinologist about this and have that MRI double checked.

Run of the mill endocrinologists don't know a lot about these complex conditions especially Pituitary pathologies, at least some don't.

Find a neuro-endocrinologist and get the right help.

High IGF-1 means something is wrong with your pituitary and you need to know what.

[Nate02]

The high IGF-1 is not good. It means something is producing to much Growth Hormone in your body despite the fact that the GH itself was normal or even low for that matter.

I would seek out a neuro-endocrinologist about this and have that MRI double checked.

Run of the mill endocrinologists don't know a lot about these complex conditions especially Pituitary pathologies, at least some don't.

Find a neuro-endocrinologist and get the right help.

High IGF-1 means something is wrong with your pituitary and you need to know what.

I see. Well searching for neuroendocrinologists I can't really seem to find any? Do they go under another title? And I thought you said slightly high IGF-1 was good up top? Is it not with the growth hormone level?

[kelkel]

Did your doc find a causative factor to your low T numbers? On test 5 your LH is near the top of the scale. Were you checked for a varicocele by chance or an HCG stim test? I'd like to hear a little more about what exactly was ruled out.

[Nate02]

Did your doc find a causative factor to your low T numbers? On test 5 your LH is near the top of the scale. Were you checked for a varicocele by chance or an HCG stim test? I'd like to hear a little more about what exactly was ruled out.

Hmm. Well I'd imagine that I have been checked for a varicocele, as I have had an examination down there a couple times. They didn't mention what they were looking for, but I'd imagine that was one of the questions. No doctor has said anything fortunately.

Well there wasn't really anything. At the time my doctor had me do an MRI, discussed my history, and decided that I had separate Pituitary and Thyroid problems. The cause unknown I guess? And then I was on Androgel. So my new doctor couldn't do any of these tests, and I don't even know if she wanted to. She thinks that this is all caused by stress. Well at least the results before these (the growth hormone and estrogen). I don't know what she will say now.

[kelkel]

You're in PA. You may consider a visit to Dr. Eugene Shippen who is also in PA. He's one of the "godfathers" of TRT and may be of great assistance to you.

[Nate02]

You're in PA. You may consider a visit to Dr. Eugene Shippen who is also in PA. He's one of the "godfathers" of TRT and may be of great assistance to you.

I'd like to but I see he doesn't work with insurance. Normally my parents might help me pay, but they don't believe anything is wrong with me after this new doctor. The doctor said it was anxiety causing all this and they believe it full-heartedly because they don't believe in taking hormones. So I don't think I can afford it. I wish I could so much. I haven't called for a long time but isn't it somewhere in the ballpark of $500 for an initial appointment?

[kelkel]

Ok, he may not take insurance but I'd bet he'll give you the proper forms to then self submit your claims. Check with your plan administrator and see how it works for you.

[Nate02]

Ok, he may not take insurance but I'd bet he'll give you the proper forms to then self submit your claims. Check with your plan administrator and see how it works for you.

I think I have something like a $600 deductible for out of network. Not really sure what happens after that for cost.

[wannabeme]

According to Wikipedia growth hormone is pulsed and lasts less than 30 minutes in the bloodstream, while the resultant IGF-1 is relatively stable, so the low GH high IGF-1 combination doesn't seem like it would be unusual - though clearly you have a very high IGF-1. Too high? I have no idea. Also, it's not always a faulty pituitary. The pituitary might be getting overstimulated by the hypothalamus releasing too much growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH). In some cases, certain tumors elsewhere in the body can directly release GH or GHRH, which directly and indirectly (via pituitary) stimulates more IFG-1 production by the liver.

What are your symptoms besides jaundice after drinking?

I do think you need to see someone about this.

[steroid.com 1]

We have to stop here I believe.

This OP has brought us a very complex case.

His blood work is all over the place not discounting the fact that "his parents" are involved and he has other pathologies on top of all of this.

We all want to help and point him in the right direction, but I am even baffled with his blood work...he needs a highly trained specialist.

In fact, he needs to find a neuro-endocrinologist no matter what.

Dr. Crisler wrote recently that he had lunch with a neuro-endocrinologist at a conference and he taught him more in that short period of time than anything else he's learned.

Let's get the OP pointed to find the right care and maybe stop all the laymen guessing as I am all in for that.

We'll never figure this out here no matter how much we want to try and help.

[Nate02]

According to Wikipedia growth hormone is pulsed and lasts less than 30 minutes in the bloodstream, while the resultant IGF-1 is relatively stable, so the low GH high IGF-1 combination doesn't seem like it would be unusual - though clearly you have a very high IGF-1. Too high? I have no idea. Also, it's not always a faulty pituitary. The pituitary might be getting overstimulated by the hypothalamus releasing too much growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH). In some cases, certain tumors elsewhere in the body can directly release GH or GHRH, which directly and indirectly (via pituitary) stimulates more IFG-1 production by the liver.

What are your symptoms besides jaundice after drinking?

Thanks for the response!

The other symptoms are basically a very very low quality of life. Horrible anxiety, horrible fatigue to the point where I am tired from walking stairs., depressive thoughts, low concentration, low libido, low motivation. Big gain in abdominal fat. Seemingly lack of gains in the gym. Body aches, specifically lower back. Occasional joint pains. Paranoia. Occasional weird lacerations on my should and upper back when I am really stress. Doctors dont believe it is cushings.

Just really bad stuff... for a very long time.

I do think you need to see someone about this.

I want to, but who!?!?

We have to stop here I believe.

This OP has brought us a very complex case.

His blood work is all over the place not discounting the fact that "his parents" are involved and he has other pathologies on top of all of this.

We all want to help and point him in the right direction, but I am even baffled with his blood work...he needs a highly trained specialist.

In fact, he needs to find a neuro-endocrinologist no matter what.

Dr. Crisler wrote recently that he had lunch with a neuro-endocrinologist at a conference and he taught him more in that short period of time than anything else he's learned.

Let's get the OP pointed to find the right care and maybe stop all the laymen guessing as I am all in for that.

We'll never figure this out here no matter how much we want to try and help.

I understand GDevine. It's just very disconcerting since I have never seen you say that to someone on this forum.

Do you by chance know the name of this neuro-endocrinologist???

And I really do appreciate the help you've given. In the back of my mind I have ALWAYS known something very weird was happening with me... I shrugged it off as paranoia or overthinking.

[steroid.com 1]

I think at some point we need to be responsible members here. None of us, while self educated, are not Doctor's or Clinicians and while for the most part we can help men who have a more common types of androgen deficiency, your case is much more complex.

It would be a great injustice to you for us to try to unravel what your actual condition is, in fact most Endo's would probably struggle with this to be honest.

I would call your insurance company and see if there is a neuro-endocrinologist in your provider network. I'd also start using Google and find one that could at least look at your blood work and consult with your current Endo.

Either way my friend, that's what I think is best for you. Please keep this thread alive and let us know your progress as I for one only want the best for you...you've earned it.

gd

[38onTRT]

We have to stop here I believe.

This OP has brought us a very complex case.

His blood work is all over the place not discounting the fact that "his parents" are involved and he has other pathologies on top of all of this.

We all want to help and point him in the right direction, but I am even baffled with his blood work...he needs a highly trained specialist.

In fact, he needs to find a neuro-endocrinologist no matter what.

Dr. Crisler wrote recently that he had lunch with a neuro-endocrinologist at a conference and he taught him more in that short period of time than anything else he's learned.

Let's get the OP pointed to find the right care and maybe stop all the laymen guessing as I am all in for that.

We'll never figure this out here no matter how much we want to try and help.

Best advice ever. If this were me, I would be doing everything in my power to figure out wtf is wrong with me, no matter what the costs.. This is a life we are talking about. Email Crisler, the PA doctor, make phone calls, do whatever you can to work out some kind of deal with them and also get your parents involved. Let them know what it is YOU want to do and get them on board. If you can get your foot in the door with someone and work some kind of deal with them, they diagnose you, your parents can see that there really is something else going on, then maybe they will help you out with payment.. Be astute, be on a mission for YOU as this is your life.

[Trific]

Guess you need to chase after the best care you can for yourself but after everything is all said and done I wonder if you won't just keep doing what you are right now and that is looking at lab values and supplementing to get the labs to be in their ranges, plus exercise and nutrition.

Anxiety is related to low T and I bet it's influenced by low E2 as well.

We are all rooting for you to start feeling better soon.

[Nate02]

I think at some point we need to be responsible members here. None of us, while self educated, are not Doctor's or Clinicians and while for the most part we can help men who have a more common types of androgen deficiency, your case is much more complex.

It would be a great injustice to you for us to try to unravel what your actual condition is, in fact most Endo's would probably struggle with this to be honest.

I would call your insurance company and see if there is a neuro-endocrinologist in your provider network. I'd also start using Google and find one that could at least look at your blood work and consult with your current Endo.

Either way my friend, that's what I think is best for you. Please keep this thread alive and let us know your progress as I for one only want the best for you...you've earned it.

gd

Best advice ever. If this were me, I would be doing everything in my power to figure out wtf is wrong with me, no matter what the costs.. This is a life we are talking about. Email Crisler, the PA doctor, make phone calls, do whatever you can to work out some kind of deal with them and also get your parents involved. Let them know what it is YOU want to do and get them on board. If you can get your foot in the door with someone and work some kind of deal with them, they diagnose you, your parents can see that there really is something else going on, then maybe they will help you out with payment.. Be astute, be on a mission for YOU as this is your life.

Guess you need to chase after the best care you can for yourself but after everything is all said and done I wonder if you won't just keep doing what you are right now and that is looking at lab values and supplementing to get the labs to be in their ranges, plus exercise and nutrition.

Anxiety is related to low T and I bet it's influenced by low E2 as well.

We are all rooting for you to start feeling better soon.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the words. I'm doing my best but it is just really hard not to give up. I feel like I'm not backed up by anyone except my brother. There is always something seriously wrong and everyone just seems to shrug it off because I look and act like a healthy person. It's almost to much to take. I honestly just with I had a big old tumor on my pituitary... I know that sounds insensitive... but at least I'd know what it was. For years now I have just gone to sleep thinking what the f is wrong with me... It really takes it's toll.

That being said, I just have a few more general questions.

Is there anything that could throw off my Estrogen test that much?

Is it weird that my estrogen was normal before the test and now my estradiol was low after? Could that mean there was a mistake?

Could Gluten Intolerance possibly cause all of this?

[Trific]

At least you have your brother...family sometimes can be the worst...they think you are faking your symptoms I guess. I've gone through alot of the same. You just somehow keep going and hoping for better days.

[steroid.com 1]

Go see this guy Nate or call his office and see if you can get a consult over the phone with him: http://www.josephmaroon.com/249/introduction

[Nate02]

At least you have your brother...family sometimes can be the worst...they think you are faking your symptoms I guess. I've gone through alot of the same. You just somehow keep going and hoping for better days.

Yeah I don't think he even realizes how big of a deal it has to have one person solidly stand behind you. I mean I don't know if they think I am faking it or just embellishing it, but doctors do the SAME thing. I don't have 4 heads so it's not a big concern. Apparently feeling bad to the point where living is suffering for years now... oh no... that's not a big deal too. I'm really doing my best but it just seems hopeless, you know?

Go see this guy Nate or call his office and see if you can get a consult over the phone with him: http://www.josephmaroon.com/249/introduction

Hes in Pittsburgh too! That's not far from here!

Also, my brother is willing to roadtrip with me to Boston. They are voted close the top in Endocrinology at the hospital. Right above John's Hopkins actually which is where my doctor is. But the difference is these guys in Boston have a neuroendocrine unit!!!!!!

I will most likely visit both of these doctors.

I just have to be careful... my parents aren't willing to help financially right now and I don't have a job currently... so working on a very low budget.

[steroid.com 1]

^^^^No health insurance?

Are you over 18?

[Nate02]

^^^^No health insurance?

Are you over 18?

No I do and I am! But there is a copay each time for appointments and tests, and I am not made of money. So yes, that will certainly help.

[steroid.com 1]

Get your first appointment, once you can prove to your parents there is something medically amiss they will help you for sure!!!

[Nate02]

Get your first appointment, once you can prove to your parents there is something medically amiss they will help you for sure!!!

I'll do my best. What do you think of this Neuroendocrine Unit in Boston, Mass?

Also, you suggested I go to a Neurosurgeon? Is that what I should be looking for?

[powerlifterty16]

meuro endocrinologists just do more pituitary related tests they arent fool proof though. I went to one who wasn't really helpful at columbia university in nyc.

[Nate02]

meuro endocrinologists just do more pituitary related tests they arent fool proof though. I went to one who wasn't really helpful at columbia university in nyc.

What was your problem and what did he suggest to you?

[powerlifterty16]

What was your problem and what did he suggest to you?

it was 3 years ago. i suffer migraines, brain fog, fatigue, inability to put on quality muscle. I had a pituitary mri in 2009 that showed a 2mm microadenoma.....she ran some blood work and said im fine. It's funny because my cortisol was high and other numbers were out of range.