E2 problems after adding HCG at 250iu 2xWeek.

[BK12]

I'm trying to get dialed in on my protocol and would appreciate if the vets would take a look.

2/28/2013:
Labs after 1 month of 100mg test cyp, injected once a week. BW done 4 days after shot. No AI.

Total Test: 839 (280 - 800)
Free Test: 33.2 (12.0 - 25.0)
Estradiol: 29.2 (0.0 - 40.0)

For the next month I dropped my test dose to 50mg, injected once a week, and added HCG at 250iu 2x week.
BW done 5 days after last test shot and 3 days after last HCG shot. No AI. Lab ranges also changed for some reason.

3/29/13 B
Total Test: 702 (240 - 1048)
Free Test: 2.2 (.95 - 4.30)
Estradiol: 45.4 (0.0 - 40.0)

Started AI at .25mg 2x week. Is that too much considering that I lowered my test to 50mg/week?

I am considering dropping the test even further and bumping up the HCG, maybe even going HCG mono for a while to see how I feel.

Would this be a wise decision based on my BW?

I've only been on TRT for 6 months and was diagnosed secondary. I wish I would have tried HCG mono before getting on test cyp since I'm clearly responding to it.

Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it.

[steroid.com 1]

So many things wrong with the top I don't know where to begin.

First, are you under a Physician's care? If so, is your Physician trained in hormone replacement in men?

For your first labs, four weeks is not enough time if you're injecting. Six weeks after initiation of Testosterone IM is when to evaluate. Four weeks is too soon...

After 4 weeks you made adjustments base on what???

You cut your Testosterone dosage in half....why?

You added HCG and but didn't when you started...why?

You added .25 mg of an AI for what reason?

From what I see here you are either self administering a TRT protocol and not trained not as a licensed clinician...or you have a Doctor that doesn't know what he/she's doing.

If I were you, I seek the proper care.

BTW, mono HCG protocols are rarely effective in raising serum levels to optimal levels...if it was, we'd all be doing it!!!

[BK12]

So many things wrong with the top I don't know where to begin.

First, are you under a Physician's care? If so, is your Physician trained in hormone replacement in men?


Yes. Seeing a urologist specializes in fertility, not HRT. He is far from perfect but the best I've found thus far.


For your first labs, four weeks is not enough time if you're injecting. Six weeks after initiation of Testosterone IM is when to evaluate. Four weeks is too soon...

These are not my first labs. I started Angrogel 6 months ago and switched injections after insurance stopped covering the gel.The second set of labs is after eight weeks of test cyp injections

After 4 weeks you made adjustments base on what??? You cut your Testosterone dosage in half....why?

I cut the test to 50mg based on a suggestion from one of the members here. The thinking was that if my serum levels where in the 800's four days after my shot, then really high in days 1-3.

You added HCG and but didn't when you started...why?
Because the PCP that started me on Androgel didn't know what HCG was and neither did I at the time. My urologist started HGG after I complained of testicular discomfort.

You added .25 mg of an AI for what reason?
My E2 levels are out of range, are they not? The only symptoms I have at the moment is ED and a diminished libido.



From what I see here you are either self administering a TRT protocol and not trained not as a licensed clinician...or you have a Doctor that doesn't know what he/she's doing.

If I were you, I seek the proper care.
Easier said than done. This forum knows more than any of my doctors. They will do the bw and write the rx but it's up to me to learn everything else. I mean my uro wanted me doing 500 iu of HCG IM every week and wrote for 1mg of arimidex every day. Everything I've read says 1mg of an AI is too much. I need to find a new urologist but that may take a while.


BTW, mono HCG protocols are rarely effective in raising serum levels to optimal levels...if it was, we'd all be doing it!!!

What do you consider optimal levels? I felt pretty much the same at 600-700 then I do at 800-900. If HCG alone could keep me at 600-700 and feeling good, then I'd like to try it. If it didn't work I could just add the test back in.

[kelkel]

Test is a Bio-Identical hormone. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Like G said, HCG long term more often than not will not suffice. Agree that you tested too soon. Even though you were on a gel, which is still a form of testosterone, it is a different delivery and takes your body time to adapt/adjust. Optimal levels are where YOU feel best. Numbers don't really mean much which is why all this takes time!

[Jredwine]

OP fwiw...250iu twice per week of hcg with no AI will get my e2 up in the 70's.

My protocol is similar to yours, 80mg of cyp (split into 2 doses), .25 dex (twice per week, 1 day after injection), and now 125iu of HCG twice per week. e2 is around 7-15 which is a little low. Getting my doc to raise my hcg to 200iu and see if that gets my e2 up.

I know people swear by 250iu twice per week, but my e2 goes sky high with it at that dose. It's a fine line too.

I'd be willing to bet if you raise your HCG, or even go HCG mono, you will see the opposite effect. I have done HCG mono at 250-325iu per day and my e2 levels were in the 70's. Test Cyp does less to my e2 than HCG.

Bottom line HCG raises my e2 levels big time. Maybe yours too.

[dreadnok89]

That's why you should try 100 a day

[steroid.com 1]

Few more things...

1. Nowhere in your OP did you state you were on a TD for 6 months.
2. With IM, even though you were on a TD, you still need at least 6 weeks before you can evaluate serum levels after starting IM.
3. "I cut the test to 50mg based on a suggestion from one of the members here. The thinking was that if my serum levels where in the 800's four days after my shot, then really high in days 1-3". Not sure what member is giving you advise but it take at least 3 days after an IM administration before serum levels peak; they do not peak till day 3 or in some men day 4...not days the first few days after administration. Day 4 would be when you are near or just past peak. You would be better served cutting your IM injections into two per week.
4. Estradiol: 45.4 (0.0 - 40.0): Is this pg/ml?
5. Total and Free look good but concerned about E2. Want to see what the labs look like after the AI.
6. Leave your protocol alone and get tested in 8 to 10 weeks. Unless you see symptoms of high E2 just stay the course and make adjustment based on labs and your discussions with your Physician.