The boys are hurting?

Hello to all. I have been reading this forum as a guest for a while. I have to say it is the most informative - and friendly - site I have seen. Hope I get this post right!

For starters, I am 49 years old, 6'1" tall and weigh approximately 205lbs. I have decent body fat, ~9%. I weight lift three days a week and run 3.5 miles four days a week. I do eat healthy - 6 meals daily and no alcohol or smoking. Having colon cancer at 34 will put a new point of view on life - hah.

I have been on HRT for over 5 years now starting with a GP and Testim. My initial labs put me at 200ng/dl on the first test and 300ng/dl on the follow up before any TRT. So she reluctantly agreed and thus began my journey - new numbers started at over 750 - was so NICE! That lasted for two years before I crashed back to 300ng/dl and a new doctor - an endo. This doc tried me on clomid for about 8 months, but my levels never went over 300ng/dl. Back to Testim. That was hell for a while.

Now another doctor, a urologist this time (beginning of 2012). He started me on Axiron until two weeks ago. I basically laid out my plea as being confined to the house or air conditioned car for 4 hours until it absorbed. I am a heavy sweater, bad for me. I had finally went to 4 swipes in the morning and two in the afternoon to feel "normal" as Axiron tails off sharply in the evening. My levels on Axiron never went over 600. I always felt "kind of there, but not really". So I can honestly say, I need to be somewhere near or over 750 for sure.

So as of last week, I am now on 200mg IM injections of test-e every two weeks. Jesus what a difference - night and day from the other treatments in just three days. Libido is through the roof! I feel like I did when I first started. Doc will perform another blood test on May 23rd to adjust my level(s). I like this doc, he does try, but after reading the articles and posts here, I see he is still behind the 8-ball. He does work with you provided you know your stuff and prod him a little (anyone know a good HRT/TRT doc in the Charlotte, NC region?).

This is day 6 (I pinned on Wed of last week) and I am starting to notice the boys are getting a little sore, especially when sitting? Going out on a limb here, I would guess I'm just not used to that level of test at one time and I need to have the HCG discussion with him? I need to do that anyway as my fiancee (she is 30) wants to have a child later. So now I am asking for advice on how to approach him and what order I need to ask questions to get movement?

Again, let me say how impressed I am with the knowledge and helpfulness of the site. Hope I have given enough information (I know the blood test is coming) for some sort of back and forth.


Thanks - roxer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roxer

Hello to all. I have been reading this forum as a guest for a while. I have to say it is the most informative - and friendly - site I have seen. Hope I get this post right!

For starters, I am 49 years old, 6'1" tall and weigh approximately 205lbs. I have decent body fat, ~9%. I weight lift three days a week and run 3.5 miles four days a week. I do eat healthy - 6 meals daily and no alcohol or smoking. Having colon cancer at 34 will put a new point of view on life - hah.

I have been on HRT for over 5 years now starting with a GP and Testim. My initial labs put me at 200ng/dl on the first test and 300ng/dl on the follow up before any TRT. So she reluctantly agreed and thus began my journey - new numbers started at over 750 - was so NICE! That lasted for two years before I crashed back to 300ng/dl and a new doctor - an endo. This doc tried me on clomid for about 8 months, but my levels never went over 300ng/dl. Back to Testim. That was hell for a while.

Now another doctor, a urologist this time (beginning of 2012). He started me on Axiron until two weeks ago. I basically laid out my plea as being confined to the house or air conditioned car for 4 hours until it absorbed. I am a heavy sweater, bad for me. I had finally went to 4 swipes in the morning and two in the afternoon to feel "normal" as Axiron tails off sharply in the evening. My levels on Axiron never went over 600. I always felt "kind of there, but not really". So I can honestly say, I need to be somewhere near or over 750 for sure.

So as of last week, I am now on 200mg IM injections of test-e every two weeks. Jesus what a difference - night and day from the other treatments in just three days. Libido is through the roof! I feel like I did when I first started. Doc will perform another blood test on May 23rd to adjust my level(s). I like this doc, he does try, but after reading the articles and posts here, I see he is still behind the 8-ball. He does work with you provided you know your stuff and prod him a little (anyone know a good HRT/TRT doc in the Charlotte, NC region?).

This is day 6 (I pinned on Wed of last week) and I am starting to notice the boys are getting a little sore, especially when sitting? Going out on a limb here, I would guess I'm just not used to that level of test at one time and I need to have the HCG discussion with him? I need to do that anyway as my fiancee (she is 30) wants to have a child later. So now I am asking for advice on how to approach him and what order I need to ask questions to get movement?

Again, let me say how impressed I am with the knowledge and helpfulness of the site. Hope I have given enough information (I know the blood test is coming) for some sort of back and forth.


Thanks - roxer

---

Probably because you aren't on HCG. Also have him split up your injections to AT LEAST once a week, if not twice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jomamma007

Probably because you aren't on HCG. Also have him split up your injections to AT LEAST once a week, if not twice.

---

I think I can split that on my own, he prescribed a 5 month supply of 5ml 200mg/ml vial of test-e. The HCG is another issue. Just curious, but I used to have severe night sweats in my early thirties - around 32/33. I thought it was some kind of Gulf War Syndrome - hahaha. The Navy doc told me I was OK. Could that have been the beginning of this? I started gaining weight after I had cancer surgery in 2000, but truthfully, I always had a struggle with it after my early thirties.

-- roxer

HCG was a ball saver for me. It helped me with nipples being sore also. I am waiting on next blood works before I give a complete thumbs up for HCG but so far it has made a world of difference for me.

Hi roxer and welcome to the forum.

Read the stickies at the top of the forum and start learning. Pay attention to the HCG and Estradiol threads; these are two things you need to know well.

As noted, injecting every two weeks is not good at all. Half life of Test Cyp is about 6 days so do the math. Doing 50 mg injections say Monday morning and Thursday night will help ensure that you have stable serum levels with little spikes that reduces the chances for increased E2.

You're are HPTA suppressed now so the testes are essentially shutting down and starting to atrophy thus the pain. You need HCG, read the sticky and copy it and email it to your Doc.

Can you post your blood work complete with ranges here in this thread?

Before going on TRT what were you diagnosed with?

Listen to the forearm above please.

Remember as well that if your doc doesn't quite work out for you lowT.com is always there.

And oh man, thinking about a baby at 49! God bless ya man. Big undertaking!

Welcome to the forum. Great first post as well!

kel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kelkel

Listen to the forearm above please.

kel

---

Now that had me bust out laughing!!!

Funny boy;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gdevine

Hi roxer and welcome to the forum.

Read the stickies at the top of the forum and start learning. Pay attention to the HCG and Estradiol threads; these are two things you need to know well.

As noted, injecting every two weeks is not good at all. Half life of Test Cyp is about 6 days so do the math. Doing 50 mg injections say Monday morning and Thursday night will help ensure that you have stable serum levels with little spikes that reduces the chances for increased E2.

You're are HPTA suppressed now so the testes are essentially shutting down and starting to atrophy thus the pain. You need HCG, read the sticky and copy it and email it to your Doc.

Can you post your blood work complete with ranges here in this thread?

Before going on TRT what were you diagnosed with?

---

I will make sure I take that information to the doc. I wanted an appointment with him sooner, but they said wait until the blood test is due. I will most certainly get that information to you when it is performed. I'll be honest and tell you I really didn't pay that much attention until I found this site and started reading up. To that end, all I did during previous blood tests was be a donor and wait for the verbal "these are your numbers". Now I know what to ask for when I go in.

As for what I was diagnosed with, it was 5 years ago with a GP who knew nothing and neither did I. Commercials caught my eye, so I was tested. After understanding somewhat that 200 was the Test of an 80 year old man, I complained. She knew no better and said that was "in range so you are good". Like I said, she reluctantly prescribed it. It wasn't until I crashed again that I saw an endo. That was just as bad.

Thanks again for the educational site. I have more reading to do, but have already changed my dosing schedule starting today to 50mg as you stated. Doc will just have to live with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kelkel

Listen to the forearm above please.

Remember as well that if your doc doesn't quite work out for you lowT.com is always there.

And oh man, thinking about a baby at 49! God bless ya man. Big undertaking!

Welcome to the forum. Great first post as well!

kel

---

Thanks kel. I met her in China, awesome girl. Known her for two years and we will marry this year after her visa clears. She gave up something to marry me, I thought it was only fair to make sure she wasn't denied a regular life because of my age. Now you know why I need this working right - Hah!

roxer

Just talked to my doc's nurse and asked her if she has seen him prescribe HCG injections with test. She plainly said he doesn't do that and most likely will not. I still want to confront him on it directly with the study I printed out. Maybe she is a little protective of him. If he doesn't, the lowT.com route might be OK? Unfortunately, flying to Texas right now would be an impossibility. Not until sometime later in the year if I could even do that with my work schedule.

5 ml of 200 mg/ ml test isn't going to last 5 months at 100 mg/ week

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moparman

5 ml of 200 mg/ ml test isn't going to last 5 months at 100 mg/ week

---

I have 5 refills (5 additional vials) for a six month period. Insurance says blood test required every 6 months to get a new script. Or I could just pay the $80 per 5ml vial per month and bypass insurance. I should have at least one extra vial by my next script. I am hoping so - need to have at least one in case of an local emergency and the pharmacy/doc isn't available.

-- roxer

Well shoot at 100 mg a week that 5ml bottle will last 10 weeks. Time 5 and you're set for a year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roxer

Just talked to my doc's nurse and asked her if she has seen him prescribe HCG injections with test. She plainly said he doesn't do that and most likely will not. I still want to confront him on it directly with the study I printed out. Maybe she is a little protective of him. If he doesn't, the lowT.com route might be OK? Unfortunately, flying to Texas right now would be an impossibility. Not until sometime later in the year if I could even do that with my work schedule.

---

You can't wait till later in the year, your testes will continue down the path of non-functioning and the pain and ache will continue to get worse. There have been some men here who had pain inflicted on them at serious magnitude all because their Physician was not trained correctly in TRT protocols.

Get on HCG any way you can...I am not a big fan of self medication but there are some good research sites out there selling HCG and it's a very safe peptide so if you need to do this yourself...do it!

I'd rather not see you get hurt due to your Physician's incompetence.

I've moved my schedule to Monday morning 50mg and Thursday night 50mg. Kind of feeling like I did before I went on shots. My blood test is in two weeks on the 23rd, so I will see how that turns out and post. I'll see if he can include the sensitive e2 test in there for me.

Is there a time lapse between going off transdermals and shots taking affect? Or will the feeling be about the same? The only "spike" felt was when I first injected 200mg for the two week interval - day two and three were spot on with energy, focus, etc. Since going to twice a week, I don't really notice anything significant, but then I don't really feel that great either.

I do have a question on giving myself shots. I have been rotating on my left/right outer thigh and wondered if this is OK to do? I am using a 25 gauge 1" needle for injections. Are the locations healed enough by the next shot period to continue this shot protocol?

Thanks - roxer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roxer

I've moved my schedule to Monday morning 50mg and Thursday night 50mg. Kind of feeling like I did before I went on shots. My blood test is in two weeks on the 23rd, so I will see how that turns out and post. I'll see if he can include the sensitive e2 test in there for me.

Is there a time lapse between going off transdermals and shots taking affect? Or will the feeling be about the same? The only "spike" felt was when I first injected 200mg for the two week interval - day two and three were spot on with energy, focus, etc. Since going to twice a week, I don't really notice anything significant, but then I don't really feel that great either.

I do have a question on giving myself shots. I have been rotating on my left/right outer thigh and wondered if this is OK to do? I am using a 25 gauge 1" needle for injections. Are the locations healed enough by the next shot period to continue this shot protocol?

Thanks - roxer

---

You shouldn't have any issues with the transition. Depending on how well you take to injections, you might notice some differences. Blood work will tell all.

Injecting in your thigh is fine. I always like to rotate more than 2 sites. either way, you should be fine, but the longer you spread the better. you could try delts, they're pretty easy. And at 50mg doses, you may want to consider subQ injections.

Went in Wed for BW. He only let me add the standard E2 test. He did however start me on HCG based on the pubmed article about HCG while on test. 250iu every 5 days for 3 months. Now if I can just get him to open up to a little more during the BW. At least he listens, better than the others.

So I just took my first HCG 250iu shot. Curious as to what I should expect now? Will it take a few weeks to work, or should I notice something within the first week? Next one will be Wednesday night if I am doing same as Test which are Monday morning and Thursday night. That sound right?

Hope to have my lab results back next week. Doc is real good at sharing information.

-- roxer

Keep us updated. I'm pretty much in the same boat. My doc won't give me HCG and I've noticed lately my boys are starting to hurt and have really downsized in the past 6 months after being on Test Cyp. I might need to go the research Chem route.

I was on injects for a year before I found a doc who would give me hCG.

Started out with five days straight of 250 ius then switched to MWF. It took about three days for me to start to notice a physical change. I felt much better with libido etc within a day or two

My doctor asked me to change to an every five day injection of 100mg. Problem is he didn't change my script so I will be short a week on the current vial. Guess iI'll have to inform him of that. Hahahaha. Regardless, I think I can tell it is working. More of a consistent feeling through the day and I am sleeping better. Nice. Hope my BW comes soon, very interested in the results.

I would like to thank the board and the good folks on here who provided great info and guidance. I can say after just one HCG shot yesterday, I am feeling the effects. Pain is gone with a size difference to boot. Is that possible it acts this quickly? Anyway, looks like a very good start. Thanks again. Now to get my test levels stable and start enjoying my new freedom. Is great to wake up and just be able to run, mow the lawn, or what ever I want with worrying about rubbing something on. Awesome.

HCG worked that quickly for me. My testicals were aching & very small. After my first HCG pin the aching went away & they began to hang like they used to.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

When I did 5 days straight of 250 iUs my nuts were as low and big as they were pre-TRT after a few days. On MWF, they are about 75% - 80% of what they used to be.

Same here. I found that 200iu's every day works best for me.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

Do you guys find you get any bloating on hcg daily? Just curious. Also, concerning test injections, do you reuse your draw needles? I use a 21 gauge 1 1/2" to draw and a 25 gauge 1" for 50mg thigh injections. Is it taboo to keep using anything (other than the shot needle)? I'm paranoid I am throwing away a needle that still has some test in it.

I always throw my needles away, both draw and inject. I use an 18 gauge to draw and a 25 1.5" gauge to inject, then both and the syringe go in the sharps container. Needles are so cheap, why risk contaminating your test vial?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EverettCD

Same here. I found that 200iu's every day works best for me.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

---

Really? What/how do you feel different compared to 100iu/day. I was doing 100/day, but just changed to every other day. My nuts are just as full in between injections.

500iu every 3.5 days, the day before my shots, works great for me! 250 everyday for about 10 days after tren cycle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rusty11

Really? What/how do you feel different compared to 100iu/day. I was doing 100/day, but just changed to every other day. My nuts are just as full in between injections.

---

Hey Rusty,

I don't really "feel" any different but when I did 100iu/day my boys weren't hanging or close to original size. I went to 150 per day for a few weeks & now 200iu/day is the sweet spot. Everything down under seems to be back to normal size & dangle.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

I was doing 200iu/d and thought that was my sweet spot but I switched to 400iu eod (sometimes e3d because I forget) and haven't noticed any difference at all. Even though the dose is the same the nice thing is not having to pin daily.

Well crap. My labs came in and at 50mg x2 weekly my test is 556.74 ng/dl. Range is 300-1000. He changed my protocol right before my lab to 100mg every 5 days (from 2ml/month to 3ml/month). That breaks down to 150mg per week if I stay 2x weekly, right?

So will upping my dose to 70mg x2 weekly do the same thing? I am guessing my test prescription will last me the same, or will that make me run short before my next refill? I am prescribed a 200mg/1ml 5ml vial. Can one of you conversion experts help me with this?

My test blood draw was taken on a Wednesday morning after 6 weeks on this new protocol. Don't see my E2 levels, so I guess I need to call him as to why.

Called my doctor and they forgot to include E2 in the BW. So I think I need to get it done myself. Can someone PM me with a lab that won't break the bank? I'll take the results to his office.

Now that I am on shots for test and HCG, ED is starting to set in. Was hoping the BW would have my E2 level, but no joy.

-- roxer

I can't advise for labs - I would insist that your doctor run another blood draw to do E2 ASAP.

XXXXXXXQuestion - how long have you been on test and hCG?

Wow, ignore this question above, I must be tired... you already stated six weeks immediately above lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roxer

Well crap. My labs came in and at 50mg x2 weekly my test is 556.74 ng/dl. Range is 300-1000. He changed my protocol right before my lab to 100mg every 5 days (from 2ml/month to 3ml/month). That breaks down to 150mg per week if I stay 2x weekly, right?

So will upping my dose to 70mg x2 weekly do the same thing? I am guessing my test prescription will last me the same, or will that make me run short before my next refill? I am prescribed a 200mg/1ml 5ml vial. Can one of you conversion experts help me with this?

My test blood draw was taken on a Wednesday morning after 6 weeks on this new protocol. Don't see my E2 levels, so I guess I need to call him as to why.

---

I would just have the doctor write a new prescription so the pharmacy can work it out for you. They can play all sorts of dumb games and it just ends up frustrating the patient.

Easiest thing to do is if your doctor adjusts your dosage amount or frequency then have him notify your pharmacy.