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Thread: is hcg dangerous?

  1. #1
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    Exclamation is hcg dangerous?

    i have read alot of stuff about hcg can cause or accelerate cancer...how it gives bad migraines(which i already suffer from)..and i just talked to a pharmacist about it, and he told me he'd advise against using hcg, and that it's dangerous and causes low libido, and liver problems among other things.

    he told me to ''go to the gym to get it'' which was a pretty ignorant statement.

    dr wants me on 350 iu 3xwk for 6 wks

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    the pharmacist have no clue what he' saying. he reason it cause low libido most likely because it raises testosterone which can convert to E2, and high E2 can give you all sorts of problems. and it accelerates cancer because it raises testosterone but only if you already have the cancer.

    I've never heard anyone talk about liver problems from hCG ! your pharmacist simply made comments based on ignorance of the facts, and probably listening to CNN too much
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    i've read that everyone has cancer cells n their body, so wouldnt hcg cause me get problamatic cancer? i thought testosterone at high normal was good for the body...now it causes cancer?

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    No long term studies on HCG and men .. One of the reasons I don't even consider HCG as an option.
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    LowT Mike is offline HRT Specialist, P.A. - LowTestosterone.com
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    NO NO NO. HCG is a tumor marker. meaning its a panel used to detect cancer cells. This has nothing to do with causing cancer. absurd and ignorant remark from your pharmacist. Nothing wrong with HCG. Theyve been using it for decades on label in both men and women for fertility. Where are all the dead bodies from cancer. There are none. This is how dogma starts are why HGH therapy and testosterone therapy have been around for 60 years yet only just today the medical society is starting to come around thanks to a a few Research scientist who also happen to be Urologists who dispelled all these myths years ago. Yet people "doctors alike still say" "you will get cancer" just not true. Its there own fear of their own uneducation why they make these statements. Ridiculous. I urge you to read the Higgins study and follow some Abraham Mortengalar articles from Harvard University.

    "You repeat lie after lie, year after year...It unfortunately becomes a truth to the world.

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    Hey Mike - What do you think...?

    My doctor is not a fan of HCG , but is not opposed to my using it either. He says in his experience HCG exacerbates TRT side effects such as acne and high RBC, which I have been experiencing both (I inject 250IU HCG 2x week). Acne has been awful. I'm laying off the HCG for a month to see if the acne does clear up.

    What's your opinion...?

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    LowT Mike is offline HRT Specialist, P.A. - LowTestosterone.com
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    Absurd and not true at all. All the above sides are caused 100% by the T. They dont teach TRT or HRT in med school yet they allow these doctors to Rx treatment hahahaha. Every doctor should have to be board certified in Anti-Aging and Regenerative medicine and go through extensive training before they can practice this medicine like I did...Without it its just them pulling info out of there ass. The LT docs would of course be the exception to this rule because I personally train them and board certify them through LT.com and still triage most patients along side with them.

    HCG does not exacerbate TRT side effects. How much T are you doing? My first impression is you are doing too much.

    increased RBCs can be exacerbated by sleep apnea and too high of a dose of T. A simple therapeutic phlebotomy solves that problem a few times a year.

    250 HCG 2x per week is the lowest dose I would do...Thats enough to keep HPTA going and certainly not high enough to cause any side effects. Only side effects from HCG are increased libedo. haha. HCG can raise serum T and in theory raise Hematocrit and Hemoglobin but Ive never had a case of Polycythemia with it alone. Always due to exogenous T.

    The acne most likely is because of your blend of T. Try talking to a compounding pharmacist and tell him what you are experiencing a good one will custom fit your T blend to combat acne and its usually cheaper than commerically available T. T is either cut with seasame seed oil, cottonseed oil, grape seed oil, BAF free of w benzo alcohol.. For both cyp an enanthate . This can be remedied by just changing up your chemicals. Find a blend that works best for you. Everyone is different.

    If this is one of LT docs I need to have little chit chat with them and go back to school. lol
    Last edited by LowT Mike; 05-15-2013 at 08:20 PM.

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    Not an LT doc

    My dose is 150 weekly IM. Seems to be the magic number for me. I have been suspecting the oils. Would you elaborate on changing chemicals? Does this require a compounding pharmacy, or can I request a change from my corner CVS pharmacy?

    THanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LowT Mike View Post
    NO NO NO. HCG is a tumor marker. meaning its a panel used to detect cancer cells. This has nothing to do with causing cancer. absurd and ignorant remark from your pharmacist. Nothing wrong with HCG. Theyve been using it for decades on label in both men and women for fertility. Where are all the dead bodies from cancer. There are none. This is how dogma starts are why HGH therapy and testosterone therapy have been around for 60 years yet only just today the medical society is starting to come around thanks to a a few Research scientist who also happen to be Urologists who dispelled all these myths years ago. Yet people "doctors alike still say" "you will get cancer" just not true. Its there own fear of their own uneducation why they make these statements. Ridiculous. I urge you to read the Higgins study and follow some Abraham Mortengalar articles from Harvard University.

    "You repeat lie after lie, year after year...It unfortunately becomes a truth to the world.
    ill check out those studies fi i can find them lol but i do get rather nervous about this stuff..especially because another poster in this thread said no long term studies have been done on hcg in men...so idk the duration of the studies you mentioned.

    what's your thoughts on the claims it accelerates cancer or that test accelerates it? I always second guess trying to fix my testosterone because im not THAT low(339 3.5 hours after waking up at 23 years old) but obviously im not high either.

  10. #10
    LowT Mike is offline HRT Specialist, P.A. - LowTestosterone.com
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    Excellent question. Heres the deal...Since testosterone stimulates cell growth, it is possible that it can accelerate the growth of an EXISTING prostate cancer or male breast cancer. ACTIVE PRESENT EXISTING CANCER ONLY. TRT wont cause new cancer growth and there is no study or case out there that can prove this. This is also why for all TRT patients cancer DRE imaging and/or PSA testing and comprehesive labs are done before hand to make sure the patient is cancer free. Active cancer is a contraindication for TRT.

    Ill tell you not balancing or optimizing your hormones will cause you to get cancer. I spent years in Radiology Nuclear Medicine reading PET cancer imaging studies and working with the top UCLA oncologists day in day out...They all said the same thing "PLUNDERING HORMONAL LEVELS is the cause of cancer which cause poor signaling in our bodies response to oxidative stress and thus damage by free radical rendering the body more acid and anerobic.. the ideal ecosystem for cancer growth. This is why its so healthy to have an alkaline diet (opposite of acid) and aerobic (presents of oxygen) system. Why do you think some docs use oxygen hyperbaric chamber therapy for cancer therapy.

    I cant stress enough...Your chances of getting cancer is higher if you dont balance hormones.

    There is no doubt in my mind this is true when you look at the high rate of cancer in the US today and our poor food quality and GMO/gluten foods. There is a reason why 70% of our immune system is now in our gut. Our digestive system is now adapting because our gut has to fight all the shit we put in out bodies...this is the main factory of oxidative stress.

    18 year study was just done on all TRT patients most using HCG . There is less than .48% rate of cancer per year of all US men that undergo TRT. The national average of men NOT ON TRT that get just prostate cancer is 1 out of 5. Ill let you do the math on that. Again, balancing hormones is cancer preventative. HCG is chemical that is naturally produced in the body. Its actually released during pregnancy to help cell growth of the unborn fetus. Does that sound cancer causing?? In a landmark review article published in 2004 in the New England Journal of Medicine, the authors report “there appears to be no compelling evidence at present to suggest that men with higher testosterone levels are at greater risk of cancer or that treating men who have hypogonadism [low testosterone] with exogenous androgens increases this risk of any cancer."

    Michael Brookins, Board Certified Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine
    Chief Clinical Advisor, Lowtestosterone.com
    Last edited by LowT Mike; 05-15-2013 at 09:44 PM.

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    auswest is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowT Mike
    Excellent question. Heres the deal...since testosterone stimulates cell growth, it is possible that it can accelerate the growth of an EXISTING prostate cancer or male breast cancer. ACTIVE PRESENT EXISTING CANCER ONLY. TRT wont CAUSE cancer and there is no study or case out there that can prove this. This is also why for all TRT patients cancer DRE imaging and/or PSA testing and comprehesive labs are done before hand to make sure the patient is cancer free. Active cancer is a contraindication for TRT.

    Ill tell you not balancing and optimizing your hormones will cause you to get cancer. I spent years in nuclear medicine doing PET cancer imaging and working with the top UCLA oncologists day in day out they all said hormonal imbalances and the bodies response to oxidative stress and free radical release making the body more acid and anerobic is what promotes cancer growth. So your chances of getting cancer is higher if you dont balance hormones. There is no doubt in my mind this is true when you look at the high rate of cancer in the US today and our poor food quality and GMO/gluten foods. There is a reason why 70% of our immune system is now in our gut. Our bodies are adapting Because our body now has to fight all the shit we put in out bodies...this is the main factory of oxidative stress.

    18 year study was just done on all TRT patients most using HCG. There was a .48% of cancer per year of all the men including prostate cancer. The national average of men not on TRT that get prostate cancer is 1 out of 5. Ill let you do the math on that. Again, balancing hormones is cancer preventative. HCG is chemical that is naturally produced in the body. Its actually released during pregnancy to help cell growth of the unborn fetes. Does that sound cancer causing. In a landmark review article published in 2004 in the New England Journal of Medicine, the authors report "there appears to be no compelling evidence at present to suggest that men with higher testosterone levels are at greater risk of cancer or that treating men who have hypogonadism [low testosterone] with exogenous androgens increases this risk of any cancer."
    Mind blown, great info!!

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    cool stuff mike
    Last edited by powerlifterty16; 05-15-2013 at 10:01 PM.

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    There is so much misinformation out there. Unfortunately I think many pharmacists and doctors give purely speculative advice, or even worse they answer a.question simply because they feel like they have to give an answer other than 'I don't know'. I have my suspicions about why a titled person does that but that's another topic entirely the problem is that when these respected, educated people with titles give an answer, wrong or right,.it is repeated to others. Et cetera.

    I personally use hcg and follow the advice of the trt specialists here. your everyday GP's and Pharmacists typically don't have a clue when it comes to what we discuss here. I'm a programmer. That doesn't make me an assembly language expert. I don't know shit about it and if someone asks me about it I tell them I don't know shit about it. Its too bad these people cant do the same.

    Sorry for.the rant but you can't trust your doc.and pharmacist just because they have the credentials. My first question is always 'how up to date are you on your endocrinology for men my age?' And them I watch their face closely. I already have my answer. Do your own research is my advice.

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    when he said it lowers libido i saw red flags in my head..considering it is meant to do the opposite.

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    LowT Mike is offline HRT Specialist, P.A. - LowTestosterone.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Java Man View Post
    There is so much misinformation out there. Unfortunately I think many pharmacists and doctors give purely speculative advice, or even worse they answer a.question simply because they feel like they have to give an answer other than 'I don't know'. I have my suspicions about why a titled person does that but that's another topic entirely the problem is that when these respected, educated people with titles give an answer, wrong or right,.it is repeated to others. Et cetera.

    I personally use hcg and follow the advice of the trt specialists here. your everyday GP's and Pharmacists typically don't have a clue when it comes to what we discuss here. I'm a programmer. That doesn't make me an assembly language expert. I don't know shit about it and if someone asks me about it I tell them I don't know shit about it. Its too bad these people cant do the same.

    Sorry for.the rant but you can't trust your doc.and pharmacist just because they have the credentials. My first question is always 'how up to date are you on your endocrinology for men my age?' And them I watch their face closely. I already have my answer. Do your own research is my advice.

    ^^^You are so right about docs. They have no idea how to say I dont know. So sad and does themselves and the patient a serious injustice. I urge all guys if you wish to go under TRT please find a doc that is Board Certified in anti-aging medicine.
    Last edited by LowT Mike; 05-15-2013 at 09:48 PM.

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    thanks for that..i've had a lot of blood work in my days but never had the psa. im 23 though with low testosterone and my 56 yr old dad has a low psa so im not too concerned. not sure what you mean by dre imaging? does that stand for diagnostic radiation evaluation imaging? My pituitary mri was clear, and i had a stomach/pelvis mri about 2 yrs ago. complete metabolic panel showed good levels of most things...although i must mention my platelets have ALWAYS been low. in the past they were 120k-140k and one was 160k....and i just got blood work a few wks back and they were an alltime high of 180,000 lol...my dad's are low also.
    one last concern i had with doing the hcg mono, was that right now my t to e ratio is very good. i have 339 tt and only 9 estradiol(7-42) and my ft is only low bc my tt is low(10.1 on scale 9.3-26.4)..im worried if my e rises more than t ill be screwed lol...and idk if my docs on board with e management and i dont want to take anti es if idont need to....

    but anyway this post is turning into a long rant lol.

    if you dont mind ill summarize it with a few questions
    1-my last lh was 5.2 scale was 1.7-8.6...could i still be secondary with an lh this high? my past lh/fsh were 2 and 2.9...and weird thing is at that time my tt was 535
    2-since my t to e ratio is very good now, even though my tt is low, do you think ill feel better with a higher tt?
    3-any thoughts on why my platelets are always low year after year hematologist a few yrs back had nothing to offer lol.
    4-my doc wants me on hcg for 6 weeks at a dose of 350iu 3x per week. his hope is that it will stimulate my natty t and i wont have to use trt since im so young...is it possible the hcg can have permanent effects or do ineed to use it forever?
    5-are there any possible drawbacks from doing this protocol, and what if i develop gyno or intratesticular aromatase?
    6-my cortisol is a little high..ive started taking phosphatidyl 600 mg per day not sure if it's doing much for me...figured if raise my t that way but i guess ill go on the hcg
    ok sorry for asking so much, and you are free to ignore this post

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    Mike, thanks for your contributions to this thread. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread as the content is tangential to the topic at hand, but have you any knowledge of a refractory period with hCG ? I've seen this idea parroted across several forums but without substantiating literature. The general idea is that the leydig cells need time to recover/reset so frequent injections (Ed) are in fact damaging whereas the ideal frequency is e3d or e4d.

    Can this be dismissed as bioscience or is there fact in it? Any studies you can provide would be much appreciated as my pubmed search yielded no results.

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowT Mike View Post
    NO NO NO. HCG is a tumor marker. meaning its a panel used to detect cancer cells. This has nothing to do with causing cancer. absurd and ignorant remark from your pharmacist. Nothing wrong with HCG. Theyve been using it for decades on label in both men and women for fertility. Where are all the dead bodies from cancer. There are none. This is how dogma starts are why HGH therapy and testosterone therapy have been around for 60 years yet only just today the medical society is starting to come around thanks to a a few Research scientist who also happen to be Urologists who dispelled all these myths years ago. Yet people "doctors alike still say" "you will get cancer" just not true. Its there own fear of their own uneducation why they make these statements. Ridiculous. I urge you to read the Higgins study and follow some Abraham Mortengalar articles from Harvard University.

    "You repeat lie after lie, year after year...It unfortunately becomes a truth to the world.

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    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Everything is dangerious. You can drown in water! Use HCG responsibly and for what it is designed for in men -- not a way to lose weight on some rediculous crash diet.

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    OP mentioned Migraine Headaches. I've suffered from these my whole life and can tell you that HCG has not increased the frequency or severity...
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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    OP mentioned Migraine Headaches. I've suffered from these my whole life and can tell you that HCG has not increased the frequency or severity...
    THANKS MAN! has improving your test levels cured your headaches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlifterty16 View Post
    THANKS MAN! has improving your test levels cured your headaches?
    No I wish, totally separate issue. The only thing that has helped is time (they've reduced with age) and the right combination of Blood Pressure Medicine (Atacand) and Imitrex (Sumatriptan) when needed.

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    Migraines for life here. APIs, I don't know if Imitrex does the job for you(didn't help me), but maxalt wipes 'em out if I take it in time. But, as you stated, thankfully mine have decreased dramatically as I've gotten older. There was nothing around when I was a kid lying in bed, wishing for death.

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    Imitrex actually made me suicidal! It was very disturbing. On a positive though, there is a NSAID that when compounded into a suppository it knocks out the migraine even at the visual disturbance stage! It's called indomethacin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    No I wish, totally separate issue. The only thing that has helped is time (they've reduced with age) and the right combination of Blood Pressure Medicine (Atacand) and Imitrex (Sumatriptan) when needed.
    i'm hoping my migraines are test related...i've read a lot of forums about former migraine sufferers having their symptoms ameliorated by increasing test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    OP mentioned Migraine Headaches. I've suffered from these my whole life and can tell you that HCG has not increased the frequency or severity...
    Same here. Headaches all my life. Cluster tension though not migraine. They present with aura though, many of the sane symptoms. The only thing I've done that made them more frequent in relation to what we discuss on this board is dbol . Including hcg . No effect on headaches. 250iu ed for the past few months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlifterty16 View Post

    if you dont mind ill summarize it with a few questions
    1-my last lh was 5.2 scale was 1.7-8.6...could i still be secondary with an lh this high? No, secondary would mean that there's suppression with the HPTA. 5.2Iu/L is good, and indicates fairly normal LH production.
    2-since my t to e ratio is very good now, even though my tt is low, do you think ill feel better with a higher tt? I'm personally not into this T to E ratio stuff. IMO, optimize your test, and optimize your E2; both separate variables. Additionally, total serum really doesn't hold much weight if you don't have your free testosterone in check. The guy with 350 TT could have more actual bio-available test than the guy at 700 total serum if their SHBG has significant variances. Dive into the big picture of it, there's much, much more than just the total serum program
    3-any thoughts on why my platelets are always low year after year hematologist a few yrs back had nothing to offer lol. Difficult department ... I've incurred the same issue as I've got older. Start with looking at B12 (methylcobalamin is the ticket IMO). I would consult a specialists to review your history and test for pathology if it persists. I am a carrier for hemochromatosis, so have your physician check you out for that as well (Iron tests, ferritin)
    4-my doc wants me on hcg for 6 weeks at a dose of 350iu 3x per week. his hope is that it will stimulate my natty t and i wont have to use trt since im so young...is it possible the hcg can have permanent effects or do ineed to use it forever? This is idiotic on his part. HCG therapy will just induce complete suppression of your HPTA. LH and the testis work on a negative feedback loop process. When endogenous (natty) test gets elevated, the pituitary reduces production of LH ... Then when testosterone serum decreases, the pituitary recognizes this depletion and increases LH, which in turn is the signaling agent to promote testosterone production in the testis. If you take HCG, it is simply an EXOGENOUS form of the LH analog, which will signal the testis to produce natural testosterone. If your testosterone serum is increased, then the HPTA (based on the feedback loop) will have no need to produce more endogenous LH. So, when your doctor pulls you of the HCG, your testosterone serum is gong to drop, drop, drop, you will be shutdown.
    Bolds

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    thanks for the reply...i seem to be back at square 1..ive been trying to find answers for about 5 years, seeing tons of drs...and cant afford a service like lowt.com at the moment as im unemployed due to feeling like crap all the time and not able to concentrate.

    the platelets are a chronic issue...they are still in range though at 180. i actually have been taking b12 methyl for years..my last blood draw showed my level was so high it was not able to be calculated.

    im confused on the lh, because in the past ive got it checked twice
    and it was
    at 19 my lh was 4.6(1.5-9.3) and fsh was 3.0(1.6-8.0) testosterone was 277


    at 21(my bday) my lh was 2.0(range says less than 2 is pre puberty and less than 10 post)...fsh was 2.9(less than 5 pre, less than 10 post) tt was 535

    2 WEEKS AGO....lh was 5.2(1.7-8.6) ..and total test was 339(348-1197), free was 10.1(9.3-26.6)

    so it appears my lh, varies quite a bit, and right now it is slightly above mid range. Do i sound secondary, and do you think hcg would benefit or hurt me?...and if ionly use 250-400 3x per week do i need to worry about my own lh stopping, or estrogen skyrocketing without an aromotase inhibitor.
    i was thinking of trying the hcg to see how it made me feel

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    im not sure what i should do at this point...have an endo appt in end of june so may try one last effort to get this figured out, but if not i may just take the 6 wks of hcg the uro prescribed and see if he will continue prescrbing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty11 View Post
    Migraines for life here. APIs, I don't know if Imitrex does the job for you(didn't help me), but maxalt wipes 'em out if I take it in time. But, as you stated, thankfully mine have decreased dramatically as I've gotten older. There was nothing around when I was a kid lying in bed, wishing for death.
    Same here man, suffered through my teens and 20's horribly. How I ever graduated college & started a successful career is a miracle. Nothing but narcotics worked until Imitrex eventually came to market. That drug was literally a life-saver & a game-changer just like TRT's been!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinceproduction View Post
    Imitrex actually made me suicidal! It was very disturbing. On a positive though, there is a NSAID that when compounded into a suppository it knocks out the migraine even at the visual disturbance stage! It's called indomethacin.
    Your very fortunate it works. Indomethacin is actually and old NSAID. I tried this in my early teens with no luck. Everyone's different...

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlifterty16 View Post
    im not sure what i should do at this point...have an endo appt in end of june so may try one last effort to get this figured out, but if not i may just take the 6 wks of hcg the uro prescribed and see if he will continue prescrbing it.
    Well, dont just give up. See what the new endo says. If he flops, try another. Always remain determined. As Vette mentions, HCG Therapy is typically not viable long-term. People on here report mixed results with it (at best)...

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    i've been at this shit since i was 18-19 and im 23.5 now. seen more endos than i have fingers...2 testosterone specialists(including this uro), and one neuroendo at columbia....all a bunch of time wasters.

    this uro in his defense actually wrote me a script....and is trying to help me....but he doesnt know what he's doing. I doubt the endo im seeing in june will know either..and i dont want to wait lol. I want a comprehensive thyroid panel, a repeat testosterone check, and maybe some adrenals checked. I also wish he checked me for klinefelters.

    im going to make another appt with this urologist and tell him my concerns...and how i dont think 6 weeks of hcg will help.

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    i've been at this shit since i was 18-19 and im 23.5 now. seen more endos than i have fingers...2 testosterone specialists(including this uro), and one neuroendo at columbia....all a bunch of time wasters.

    this uro in his defense actually wrote me a script....and is trying to help me....but he doesnt know what he's doing. I doubt the endo im seeing in june will know either..and i dont want to wait lol. I want a comprehensive thyroid panel, a repeat testosterone check, and maybe some adrenals checked. I also wish he checked me for klinefelters.

    im going to make another appt with this urologist and tell him my concerns...and how i dont think 6 weeks of hcg will help.

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    alright so i called the urologist, and i have an appt for wednesday. this is the same guy who prescribed the hcg ...im going to to tell him i dont think a 6 week therapy will work...and im going to tell him i want to find the cause for my low t.

    what bloodwork should i ask for?

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    also ill ask him,if the hcg increases my levels if he will do it long term or consider trt.

  36. #36
    64509chvl's Avatar
    64509chvl is offline Associate Member
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    Damn...been following this thread & really hope u can get something going to help u out! Sounds like a pretty crappy last couple years...good luck dude!
    powerlifterty16 likes this.

  37. #37
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    now im more confused because low t mike said he agrees with my doc's protocol...but i dont see how it would work since hcg only mimics lh.

  38. #38
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    Rusty11 is offline Senior Member
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    Sorry that you're not working now and can't get with lowt. Too much going on for a young guy.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty11 View Post
    Sorry that you're not working now and can't get with lowt. Too much going on for a young guy.
    thanks man....it's funny igraduated school and now i have a career in laying on the couch all day lol. I'd love to be a door man at a club as im tall and have a pretty good body for a guy with low t LOL...but right now i am scared of everything....prob a low t issue.

  40. #40
    64509chvl's Avatar
    64509chvl is offline Associate Member
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    Lol...probably so dude! I've got a few low t issues & I'm sick of em draggin me down!

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