On TRT for 3mths still no pump...any suggestions

**kruno1970** · 05-31-2013, 08:25 PM

I've been on TRT for 3 mths still trying to get dialed in but overall strength is up and workouts are good but what i still can't seem to experience is the workout pump I used to have. Even before the TRT I had this issue for the last 5 years. I always seemed to get swore or fatigued but no pump or burn. I've tried NO2 products and changing workouts (ie, more reps and drop sets) but nothing really works. The pump may not be needed but I always felt great with all that blood flowing through my muscles and workouts were great. Basically without the pump my workouts feel so-so.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

BTW I'm 43yrs old, 14% bf and weight about 177lbs. 5yrs prior to these stats I was around 10-11% bf and weighed about 175lbs (no spare tire around my waste like now). The only thing that changed in my exercise routine is less cardio (ie, sports - basketball, etc.).

**100%** · 05-31-2013, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by kruno1970

I've been on TRT for 3 mths still trying to get dialed in but overall strength is up and workouts are good but what i still can't seem to experience is the workout pump I used to have. Even before the TRT I had this issue for the last 5 years. I always seemed to get swore or fatigued but no pump or burn. I've tried NO2 products and changing workouts (ie, more reps and drop sets) but nothing really works. The pump may not be needed but I always felt great with all that blood flowing through my muscles and workouts were great. Basically without the pump my workouts feel so-so.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

BTW I'm 43yrs old, 14% bf and weight about 177lbs. 5yrs prior to these stats I was around 10-11% bf and weighed about 175lbs (no spare tire around my waste like now). The only thing that changed in my exercise routine is less cardio (ie, sports - basketball, etc.).

Read this thread http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...is-2x-day.html

**HRTstudent** · 05-31-2013, 11:14 PM

pump is a lot more than just testosterone ...

when I had T levels in the 200's I still got a good pump in the gym.

I'd look at overall cardiovascular health and take it from there... 3 months on TRT is also peanuts... exercise patience as hard as it is...

**phaedo** · 06-01-2013, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

pump is a lot more than just testosterone ...

when I had T levels in the 200's I still got a good pump in the gym.

I'd look at overall cardiovascular health and take it from there... 3 months on TRT is also peanuts... exercise patience as hard as it is...

^ this.

I'd wager that you're over-training.

Your diet - carbohydrates, sodium/potassium intake, amino acid profiles, et cetera - also play a large role in achieving the "pump."

**kruno1970** · 06-01-2013, 09:41 AM

Read that post on Cialis. Tried getting liquid cialis from sponsor but product is stuck at border (canadian customs) for over two months. Can't find the generic brand to order into canada at a decent price. Any suggestions would help.

Also my diet is pretty good, 90% Paleo (just started 3 weeks ago - only starchy carbs are sweet potato post workout and squash, eat a shit load of veggies, dropped from 17% to 14% in that time). Energy is good. BP is good, RHR is good, etc. I probably don't warm-up or stretch enough before my workout but this was never an issue before. It's as if I woke up one day and the pump was gone.

I used to get a pump on the first set of my workouts and would stay pumped for at least 30-45 min after. Loved that feeling.

Going on 5 years pump free

**phaedo** · 06-01-2013, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by kruno1970

Read that post on Cialis. Tried getting liquid cialis from sponsor but product is stuck at border (canadian customs) for over two months. Can't find the generic brand to order into canada at a decent price. Any suggestions would help.

Also my diet is pretty good, 90% Paleo (just started 3 weeks ago - only starchy carbs are sweet potato post workout and squash, eat a shit load of veggies, dropped from 17% to 14% in that time). Energy is good. BP is good, RHR is good, etc. I probably don't warm-up or stretch enough before my workout but this was never an issue before. It's as if I woke up one day and the pump was gone.

I used to get a pump on the first set of my workouts and would stay pumped for at least 30-45 min after. Loved that feeling.

Going on 5 years pump free

How often do you workout? And for how long? Also, how much cardio do you do?

You going paleo isn't helping your "pump dilemma" lol. But I am a proponent since it helps people cut processed junk out of their diet - stick with it!

**BallSak** · 06-01-2013, 09:36 PM

Paleo = no pump. You need a lot of carbohydrates to get the pump you're looking for.

**phaedo** · 06-02-2013, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by BallSak

Paleo = no pump. You need a lot of carbohydrates to get the pump you're looking for.

I disagree with you. Though carbohydrates can be easily manipulated to maximize water retention, and therefore accentuate the "pump" feel, paleo is a simple revision from one macro-nutrient (carbohydrates) to another (dietary fats). Paleo isn't quite a ketogenic diet, but nonetheless, metabolic preferences shift from saccharides to triglycerides.* Glycogen is effectively synthesized from dietary fat, just as carbohydrates or even protein can meet the same end via other endergonic pathways (in the vernacular, this means it takes energy to make energy). It requires time for the body to grow accustomed to the different ratio of macro-nutrients, all things being equal.

I think the real schism here is differentiating between "bloat" and "hyperemia," the latter being the "pump" we're so eager to achieve. The former is simply water retained in the muscle cell; hardly the veiny, skin splitting pump I think we're referring to in his thread. Hyperemia, on the other hand, is quite the process:

During exercise, cells use an increase amount of oxygen and stored energy (glucose and/or fatty acids) to create adenosintriphosphate (ATP). You may search YouTube for "Kreb/Citric Acid Cycle" and "Electron Transport Chain" for good explanations. In this process(es) for energy, metabolic waste is created and transported into the blood stream, specially carbon dioxide, hydrogen ions, potassium ions, lactate, and adenosine. These are vasodilators and are the main contributors to hyperemia. In conjunction, the endothelium derived relaxing factor is activated, which is understood better as the nitric oxide system. The increase in blood flow from nitric oxide synthesis is furthered from the aforementioned metabolic by-products, l-arginine (hence the ingredient in supplements), oxygen, and some polynucleotide I can't remember. Expedite all these biological mechanisms fast enough, and the user gets the satisfying "pump" sensation.

The point of all this is that the "pump" is not dependent on carbohydrates, rather, it relies on amount of glycogen within the muscle (and liver). Therefore, if one exercises in excess, glycogen replenishment is diminished, and so follows hyperemia. Conversely, given adequate recovery, nutrition (carbs or fats!), and rest then the exerciser can more easily achieve the "pump."

~ phaedo

*the science here is too lengthy to explain in a simple forum post. You can either take my word for it, Google it, or inquire later. I'm not inclined at the moment to regurgitate more biology than I have to lol.

**BallSak** · 06-02-2013, 01:58 PM

Thanks for your very detailed and educational comment, and I agree. Like you said, a pump relies on the amount of glycogen in your cells. My understanding is that glycogen is synthesized easier from carbs than fat or protein. So, although you don't NEED a lot of carbs for a pump, carbs are more readily synthesized into glycogen when your glycogen stores are depleted. But like you said, your pump boils down to whether your nutrition is sufficient for your level of training.

**kruno1970** · 06-02-2013, 02:49 PM

I had this issue long before Paleo, but yes I understand that the lack of carbs won't help. With that said many Paleo friends of mine get wicked pumps (even better) eating this way.

Currently I workout 4x a week for an hour max. My workouts are intense and I sweat like crazy. Chest & Tris, Back & Biis, Shoulders & Triis, and Legs & Calves & Biis. As mention in my initial post the only thing that has changed is my cardio, which is bascially basketball wed nights and 1-2x a week sprints for 20 min. If my lack of cardio is the reason I find it hard to believe since most of the guys I workout with don't do any cardio as well and get a pump right away.

Prior to 5 yrs ago I was always 9-10% bf and always had a good pump but now that I'm around 15% bf would that make a difference? When I notice the spare tire around my waist is when the pump started dissipating.

I also think I may need to shock my system with a different routine (CF style workout perhaps). My workouts have always been free weight based relying on sport activities for cardio.

**BallSak** · 06-02-2013, 06:28 PM

Do you lift in the A.M.?

**kruno1970** · 06-02-2013, 06:57 PM

PM around 6-7pm

**bringndaheat** · 06-03-2013, 12:43 AM

Introduce some NO promoting sups and Cialis. I was having ur same problem a couple months ago. I found creatine helps as well. My pumps now are to the point of painful! I aslo have a extremely low carb intake.

**kruno1970** · 06-03-2013, 08:07 PM

NO supps do nothing for me. Also having trouble getting affordable Cialis. Ordered liquid cialis from sponsor but it's been in customs (canada) for over 2 mths now. No indication of why or what is happening. Regardless not going to waste money on that route again. Would love another alternative but can't seemed to find one.
Wanted to stay away from creatine for awhile since I've been on and off it for over 10 yrs. I just find i retain water more when on it but not really noticeable pump.

**phaedo** · 06-04-2013, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by kruno1970

NO supps do nothing for me. Also having trouble getting affordable Cialis. Ordered liquid cialis from sponsor but it's been in customs (canada) for over 2 mths now. No indication of why or what is happening. Regardless not going to waste money on that route again. Would love another alternative but can't seemed to find one.
Wanted to stay away from creatine for awhile since I've been on and off it for over 10 yrs. I just find i retain water more when on it but not really noticeable pump.

Trying the following and let me know how it works:

Take four days off from lifting (or working out), drink PLENTY of water, make sure you're ingesting plenty of sodium, and then workout on not a full stomach.

Give that a whirl and see if you get a "pump."

**bringndaheat** · 06-04-2013, 10:17 AM

Since you've said you've tried everything what supplement protocols have u tried?? Then we can rule some things out.

-Heat

**kruno1970** · 06-04-2013, 02:30 PM

Thanks Phaedo, I just might try that. I probably need a break.

Heat - I really haven't tried everything as I would like to try cialis and arginine. This is what I have tried over the years: creatine (basically every type), NO Explode, Super Pump and similar products, tribulus, bcaa's, glutamine, vit d, c, e, caffeine, etc. There are other things but I can't recall the names at this time but very similar to creatine and NO type products.

I'm just wondering if my muscles have plateaued/adapted to the type of workouts I've been doing. For example: 6-8 reps of compound exercises such as db chest press, db incline press, deadlifts, weighted pull-ups, bent over row, squats, clean & jerk, barebell shoulder press, weighted dips, biceps and tripces, sprints for cardio.

**Ryanmcd** · 06-04-2013, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by kruno1970

Thanks Phaedo, I just might try that. I probably need a break.

Heat - I really haven't tried everything as I would like to try cialis and arginine. This is what I have tried over the years: creatine (basically every type), NO Explode, Super Pump and similar products, tribulus, bcaa's, glutamine, vit d, c, e, caffeine, etc. There are other things but I can't recall the names at this time but very similar to creatine and NO type products.

I'm just wondering if my muscles have plateaued/adapted to the type of workouts I've been doing. For example: 6-8 reps of compound exercises such as db chest press, db incline press, deadlifts, weighted pull-ups, bent over row, squats, clean & jerk, barebell shoulder press, weighted dips, biceps and tripces, sprints for cardio.

High reps get my a better pump but I don't want a pump on the compounds to be honest, lower back pump, ya I will pass lol. Also get a good creatine Mono to keep that water.

**bringndaheat** · 06-04-2013, 07:56 PM

Try L Arginine and L Citruline and I like tht emergeC 1000mgs. I get pumps on the freaking treadmill walking. I can promise u tht u will get a pump off these! I would switch up reps as well. Low reps 4 to 6 one week then 8-10 the next. Then 15-17 the next. Your muscle will be so confused the will engorge wth blood!