TRT and Metformin?

**Da-vidman** · 05-29-2013, 03:40 PM

So this is a follow up to another thread. No additional bloodwork yet (will come in 3 weeks), but went to a different doc today and he thinks I'm converting too much test to est... but does not agree with the use of arimidex so he wants to try Metformin. So for the next three weeks I'm going to try moving from 100mg/week test cyp and 1mg/day adex to 225/week test cyp and 1000mg/day metformin.

Anyone have any good / bad results with the metformin/cyp combo for just normal trt? Not trying to bulk, but currently at 316 with 100/week and it needs to be better.

**austinite** · 05-29-2013, 03:49 PM

Metformin? for blood sugar? I'm on that and arimidex , what's the logic? I'm confused.

**Da-vidman** · 05-29-2013, 05:21 PM

From what he told me Adex is an estrogen inhibitor and Metformin is a conversion chemical that just helps you keep more test in the system. I don't find that anywhere except a study done in England that showed an overall rise in test in men who took Met for a couple of months. I've always thot Met was a blood sugar thing as well. At least he doubled my dose, but if we can't figure out the reason my numbers stay so low I'm not sure it will do much good. ??

**austinite** · 05-29-2013, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Da-vidman

From what he told me Adex is an estrogen inhibitor and Metformin is a conversion chemical that just helps you keep more test in the system. I don't find that anywhere except a study done in England that showed an overall rise in test in men who took Met for a couple of months. I've always thot Met was a blood sugar thing as well. At least he doubled my dose, but if we can't figure out the reason my numbers stay so low I'm not sure it will do much good. ??

I don't think so. If anything, Metformin lowers testosterone levels . If that is necessary then a protocol adjustment could resolve this. All this aside... removing Arimidex from your protocol without blood work is odd. When was your last test and what were the results ??

**100%** · 05-29-2013, 06:51 PM

The evidence that it works as a AI is pretty weak Life Extension Magazine is promoting as a wonder drug.
Breast Cancer

Some of metformin’s most compelling effects are in cancers of the reproductive system because it blocks the enzyme called aromatase, which can stimulate estrogen-dependent cancer growth.21 Breast cancer is the most common malignancy diagnosed in women.22 Fortunately, most varieties of breast cancer are proving to be especially susceptible to metformin prevention in the laboratory, and to metformin treatment in human patients, as shown by studies that have emerged over just the past two years.23

Metformin suppresses a specific cancer-inducing protein (human epidermal growth factor receptor 2, or HER2)24 that dramatically increases the risk of breast cancer.25 By suppressing HER2, which can stop cancers from developing in the first place, metformin halts cancer cells’ reproductive cycle, preventing them from growing once they have developed.26

Via a different set of mechanisms, metformin selectively targets cancer stem cells, cells that resist chemotherapy drugs and can regenerate and cause relapse of the disease.27 In live animal studies, metformin suppressed breast cancers, especially in animals on a high-calorie diet.20 In a dramatic 2010 study, metformin extended the life span of mice with HER2-positive breast cancers, delayed the onset of tumor development, and inhibited the growth of implanted tumors.19

The combination of all these effects means that metformin is effective against many different types of breast cancers, including those that are estrogen receptor positive and negative, and those that express both normal and excessive amounts of HER2.28 Indeed, data appeared in 2010 that long-term (greater than 5-year) metformin use by humans is associated with a substantial (56%) reduction in risk for developing breast cancer as compared with no use of metformin.1

Human trials have already demonstrated that diabetic patients with breast cancer who receive metformin plus chemotherapy have a higher rate of complete remission than do those not taking metformin. Complete remission occurred in 24% of diabetic patients taking metformin, 8% of diabetic patients not taking metformin, and 16% of non-diabetic patients not taking metformin.29 And a 2009 study showed that metformin induced unique, multitargeted responses in so-called “triple-negative” breast cancer cells, which represent some of the most difficult-to-treat forms of the malignancy.30

All of these findings speak to metformin’s tremendous potential as a true breast cancer chemopreventive agent—one that can and should be used long before any sign of cancer has appeared. Scientists from around the world believe that the time has come to leverage these effects in breast cancer chemoprevention and treatment.22,23,31,32

**Da-vidman** · 05-29-2013, 06:59 PM

Last test was March 8 and I was only at 316 (an improvement from my starting point of 183, but not by much). I'll have another test in 3 weeks and hopefully it will be a complete test and not just Total/Free test. I'm hoping to get some e numbers as well, but don't know what else to ask for to be comprehensive.

**Da-vidman** · 05-29-2013, 07:03 PM

I wonder if maybe my glucose level has anything to do with this script? I have been at the 110 fasting blood sugar level for years, and keep getting told I'm a gnat's finger away from diabetes (based only on that number even though real-time testing shows no evidence of it). Still don't know why he would want me off the Adex though if this is the case.

**100%** · 05-29-2013, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Da-vidman

I wonder if maybe my glucose level has anything to do with this script? I have been at the 110 fasting blood sugar level for years, and keep getting told I'm a gnat's finger away from diabetes (based only on that number even though real-time testing shows no evidence of it). Still don't know why he would want me off the Adex though if this is the case.

Start here http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...physician.html

**zaggahamma** · 05-29-2013, 08:48 PM

wow interesting

***LowT Mike*** · 05-31-2013, 09:52 AM

Thats a very interesting Rx for metaformin. I dont recommend the use of metaformin. Can have some harsh Side effects

**kelkel** · 05-31-2013, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by LowT Mike

Thats a very interesting Rx for metaformin. I dont recommend the use of metaformin. Can have some harsh Side effects

X2. And 1mg per day of adex? How have you not crashed your E2? My quick idea would be to go to 75mg T every 3.5 days and re-test in 4 weeks.

When was your injection relative to your 316 test result?

**dfwo** · 05-31-2013, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by LowT Mike

Thats a very interesting Rx for metaformin. I dont recommend the use of metaformin. Can have some harsh Side effects

I'm taking metformin to keep my blood sugar down. I've never looked into the side effects, mostly because I haven't noticed any. What have you read?

**Da-vidman** · 06-05-2013, 03:58 PM

Kelkel, don't remember exactly but likely the 316 was about 5 days out from the last injection of 100mg. My body just seems to be eating up the test.

**Da-vidman** · 06-05-2013, 04:01 PM

dfwo, I know met can have some troublesome sides like nausea and gastro problems as well as headache and even blood sugar crashes in folks who don't necessarily have high blood sugar. I've also heard that if you eat too many carbs or simple sugars that it can make you pretty sick feeling. I've been on 1000mg/day for about a week now and have had some nausea and have noticed the effect of too much pizza etc., but if it does anything to help it is worth what I've experienced. I'm waiting for my next bloodwork to see if the met is having any positive effects.

**thisAngelBites** · 06-06-2013, 12:22 PM

Most of the time people recommend starting met at 500 mg a day for a week or so before increasing to 1000 - getting used to it slowly like this decreases gastro side effects.