Wanted to start cycle, got lab results....HAVE LOW T!!!! Don't know what to do

[CobraMustangSVT]

Hi,
I was contemplating a cycle and after doing my research, I decided to go with this:
Week 1-4: dbol , 35mg, split up 3 times a day
LIV 52 6 times a day a week before and throughout the cycle
Milk Thistle 4 times a day a week before and throughout the cycle
Week 1-12: test E, 300mg on Monday and Thursday for a total of 600mg a week
Week 1-17 aromasin 12.5mg every day (taking it a couple of weeks into PCT)
Week 1-14 HcG 250iu every Monday and Thursday (I would run the HcG all the way up until 5 days before PCT)

For the PCT
Week 15-16 clomid 50mg once a day and Nolva 40mg once a day
Week 17-18 clomid 25mg once a day and Nolva 20mg once a day

I decided to get some blood tests done so I could have a baseline for my natural test levels. This is when things went bad. I had this test done in April of this year:
LH = 4.1 Ref (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
FSH = 3.9 Ref (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
Prolactin = 11.6 Ref (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
Estradiol = 23 Ref (< or = 39pg/mL)
Testosterone , Total, Males = 290 Ref (241-827 ng/dL)

Here's a little about me:
I'm 38 years old. 6ft tall, 206lbs and 18.5%bf. I've been training for a little over 2 years now but I've been in an out of the gym since high school. I was a runner before, did 10 years in the military and I weighed 145-155 between high school and around 27. Between 27-31 I went up to 175 and now, around 35 to present, I weigh 205. I run a typical bodybuilding split. Legs on Monday, chest and tris on Tuesday, rest on Wednesday, back on Thursday, and shoulders and biceps on Friday. I've never run a cycle and I don't smoke or drink.

I have now decided against the cycle (too bad I already wasted the money on the gear) and I went to another doctor to check my test levels again. It's still low. This doctor wants to put me on test C at 400mg every 2 weeks. I told him to give me some time to think about it. I want to do some more research before I start the lifelong TRT committment.

I'll post my labs in the next post.

[CobraMustangSVT]

Here are my lab results from last year:

Collected 6/8/12
Recieved 6/9/12

Quest Diagnostics

test: CS/HDL/AMY/CK/OSMOLALITY/T4/T3U/TSH/RPR/CBD/UA+ALB
CHEM-SCREEN PNL+HDL,TIBC
Glucose, fasting 82 REF 65-99 mg/dL
Sodium 141 Ref 135-146mmol/L
Potassium 4.9 Ref 3.5-5.3 mmol/L
Chloride 104 Ref 98-110 mmol/L
Carbon dioxide 27 ref 21-33 mmol/L
urea nitrogen 16 ref 7-25 mg/dL
Creatinine 1.10 ref 0.60-1.35 mg/dL

BUN/Creatinine Ratio NOT REPORTED WHEN VALUES ARE WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS ref 6-22

Uric Acid 5.2 Ref 4.0-8.0 mg/dL
Phosphorus 3.5 ref 2.5-4.5 mg/dL
Cholesterol, total 150 Ref 125/200mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 59 ref >=40 mg/dL
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio 2.5 ref <= 5.0
LDL Cholesterol, calculated 83 ref <130mg/dL

Triglycerides 40 ref <150 mg/dL
Protein, total 7.0 ref 6.2-8.3 g/dL
albumin 4.6 ref 3.6-5.1g/dL
Globulin, Calculated 2.4 ref 2.1-3.7 g/dL
A/G ratio 1.9 ref 1.0-2.1
Bilirubin, total 0.4 ref 0.2-1.2 mg/dL
Bilrubin, direct 0.1 ref <=0.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase 50 ref 40-115 U/L
GGT 19 ref 3-90 U/L
AST 22 ref 10-40 U/L
ALT 13 ref 9-60 U/L
LD 157 ref 100-220 U/L
Iron, total 86 ref 45-170mcg/dL
TIBC 330 ref 250-425 mcg/dL
Transferrin saturation 26 ref 20-50%
EGFR NON AFR American 88 ref >60 mL/min/1.73m2
EGFR AFR American 102 ref >60 mL/min/1.73m2

OSMOLALITY, serum 293 ref 275-295 mOsm/kg H2O

MICROALBUMIN, RANDOM
MICROALBUMIN 0.4 ref NOT ESTABLISHED mg/dL
MICROALBUMIN, RANDOM URINE 2 ref < 30 mcg/mg Creat

CREATININE, RANDOM URINE
Creatinine Random Urine 185 ref 20-370 mg/dL

TSH 0.68 ref 0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L

T4, Total 6.0 ref 4.5-12.0 mcg/dL

T3 Uptake 31 ref 22-35 percent
T4, free, calculated 1.9 ref 1.4-3.8 units

CK TOTAL 315 ref 44-196 U/L OUT OF RANGE

Amylase, Serum 70 ref 21-101 U/L

CBC INCLUDES DIFF/PLT
WBC 6.5 ref 3.8-10.8 Thous/mcL
RBC 4.92 ref 4.20-5.80 Mill/mcL
HEmoglobin 13.8 ref 13.2-17.1 g/dL
Hematocrit 42.1 ref 38.5-50%
MCV 85.5 ref 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 28.0 ref 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 32.8 ref 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 13.3 ref 11.0-15.0%
Platelet count 250 ref 140-400 Thous/mcL
MPV 8.8 ref 7.5-11.5 fL
Total neotrophils,% 54.1 ref 38-80%
Total lymphocytes,% 35.5 ref 15-49%
Moonocytes,% 9.0 ref 0-13%
eosinophils,% 1.1 ref 0-8%
Basophils,% 0.3 ref 0-2%
Neutrophils, Absolute 3517 ref 1500-7800 Cell/mcL
Lymphocytes, Absolute 2308 ref 850-3900 Cells/mcL
Monocytes, Absolute 585 ref 200-950 Cells/mcL
EOSINOPHILS, Absolute 72 ref 15-500 Cells/mcL
Basophils, Absolute 20 ref 0-200 cells/mcL
DIFFERENTIAL - An instrument differential was performed.
Urinalysis, Complete
Color Yellow Ref Yellow
Appearance Clear Ref Clear
Glucose, QL Negative ref Negative mg/dL
Bilirubin, Urine Negative ref Negative
Ketones Negative ref Negative mg/DL
Specific Gravity 1.020 ref 1.001 - 1.035
Blood Negative ref Negative
PH 6.0 ref 5.0-8.0
Protein, Total QL Negative ref Negative mg/dL
Nitrite Negative ref NEgative
Leukocyte Esterase NEgative ref negative
Squamous Epithelial Cells None Seen ref <or =5 cells/hpf
WBC None Seen ref <or =5 cells/hpf
Bacteria None seen ref none seen/hpf
RBC None seen ref <or =3 cells/hpf
Hyaline Casts None seen ref None seen /lpf

Cardio CRP (R) 0.5 ref <1.0 Lower relative cardiovascular risk
RPR w/titer + Conf RFX
RPR Screen Nonreactive ref non reactive

Vitamin D, 25-OH,LC/MS/MS
Vitamin D, 25-OH, TOTAL 33 ref 30-100ng/mL
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3: 33
Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2: <4

[CobraMustangSVT]

THIS IS MY CURRENT BLOODWORK FROM 5/30/13

Glucose, 74 REF 74-106 mg/dL
BUN, 15 REF 9-23 mg/dL
Creatinine, 1.0 REF 0.7-1.3
BUN/Creatinine Ratio, 15 REF 8-28 Ratio
Calcium, 9.7 REF 8.7-10.4
Sodium Serum 144 Ref 132-146mmol/L
Potassium 5.0 Ref 3.5-5.5 mmol/L
Chloride 103 Ref 99-109 mmol/L
Carbon dioxide 29 ref 20-31 mmol/L
Protein, total 6.9 ref 5.7-8.2 g/dL
albumin 4.4 ref 3.2-4.8g/dL
Globulin, 2.5 ref 1.8-4.0 g/dL
A/G ratio 1.8 ref 0.8-2.7 Ratio
ALK.Phosphate, 77 REF 40-156 U/L
Bilirubin, total 0.4 ref 0.2-2.0 mg/dL
AST 22 ref <34
ALT 21 ref 10-49 U/L
Uric Acid 3.8 Ref 3.7-9.2 mg/dL
Cholesterol, total 137 Ref 100-200mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 50 ref 40 -50mg/dL
VLDL Cholesterol, Cacl, 13 REF 0-38 mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol, Calc, 74 REF 70-130mgDL
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio 2.74 ref 0-4.97
LDL/HDL Ratio 2.74 ref 1.00-3.55
C-Reactive Protein (CRP), <0.4 REF <1.0
Glycohemoglobin (HbA1c), 5.2 REF <5.7
PSA (Prostatic Antigen), 0.89 REF 0.00-4.00 nG/mL
Estradiol, <20
TSH, 3rd Generation, 0.72 REF 0.51-6.27uIU/mL
Vitamin B12, 802 REF 211-911pg/ML
Ferritin, 69 REF 22-322ng/mL
Iron, 89 REF 65-175 ug/dL
Complete Blood Count
WBC, automated 5.0 ref 3.7-10.5 x10^3/uL
RBC 5.32 ref 4.6-6.2
HGB 14.0 ref 14.0-18.0 g/dL
HCT 48.0 ref 42-54%
MCV 90 ref 80.0-102.0 fL
MCH 26.3 ref 26.0-32.0 pg
MCHC 29.1 ref 30.0-36.0 g/dL OUT OF RANGE
RDW 13.7 ref 11.5-18.5%
Platelet, automated 237 ref 130-400
MPV 8 ref 6.8-12.6 fL
DIFFERENTIALS, AUTOMATED
Neotrophils % 46.5 REF 40-75
Total neotrophils # 2.33 ref 1.6-7.0
Lymphocytes,% 43.2 ref 15-45%
Lymphocytes # 2.16, REF 1-4.8
Moonocytes,% 7.2 ref 3-12%
Monocytes # 0.36 REF 0.00-1.2
eosinophils,% 2.6 ref 0-6%
Eosinophils # 0.13 REF 0.00-0.45
Basophils,% 0.6 ref 0-2%
Basophils # 0.03 REF 0.00-0.20
Sedimentation Rate, 2 REF 0-20
Testosterone , Total, 277 Ref 300-1000
Testosterone, Free, 59.8 REF 90-244pg/mL
SHBG 27 REF 13-71nmol/L
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy, 99 REF 30-100ng/mL

As you can see, the testosterone numbers have gotten lower. My vitamin D numbers improved over the past year though.

I don't have any of the problems I see in the commercials. My libido is fine (I always want sex), my erections are fine, my memory is good, I have energy, I sleep well, my mind is sharp, I work out well and add weight to the bar. I feel great so it's kind of disappointing to see the test numbers so low. I eat well, getting in at least 200g of protein, take Orange Triad multivitamins, fish oil and 6,000iu's of Vitamin D. I work out consistently. I'm pretty bummed out over these numbers.

A little bit about my medical history. Back in 2000-2003, I was in the miliitary and I hurt my back. I also got prostatitis and epididimytis. I was treated for the prostatitis and epididymitis with ciprofloxacin, ibuprofin, and flomax. I still have a pain in my right testicle and after a few ultrasounds by different doctors, they said that I have a spermatocele but it shouldn't be a problem. Every doctor I've been too about the dull ache in my right testicle tell me that there's nothing wrong and that I should live with it. I still have the dull ache and it comes and goes. It's usually worse when I'm stressed or when I hold my pee for too long.

About the back pain, I was given tons of medication over the 2000-2002 time period. I have a list of it here. Celebrex, ibuprofin, morphine, flexeril, naorpsyn, feldene, ultram, vicodin, valium, prednisone, robaxin, pamelor and neurontin. I spoke to a friend, who's a doctor, and he said that taking all of those medications, over that period of time, probably messed up my system and over the years, my body adjusted to the low t and that's why I don't have any symptoms but I do have low T.

I have one doc telling me the leave everything alone. I don't have symptoms and I add weight to the bar during my workout. I have another doc telling me that my numbers are low and to get on TRT to fix them.

I don't know what to do. I'm just thinking of ignoring the low t because I don't have any symptoms but on another forum, someone said it's like having high blood pressure or high cholesterol. You might not have the symptoms, but you still have it and need to treat it.

I'm not crazy about having to take the needle for the rest of my life.

[CobraMustangSVT]

Something else, the TRT doc that did my recent labs usually prescribes 400mg of test C twice a month. I asked him about the roller coaster effect and he said that was a good thing because over the course of the two weeks between injections, it make the T lower, lessening the chances of desensitization and he has hundreds of patients on the same protocol. He doesn't do hCG or AI's either.

[powerlifterty16]

Something else, the TRT doc that did my recent labs usually prescribes 400mg of test C twice a month. I asked him about the roller coaster effect and he said that was a good thing because over the course of the two weeks between injections, it make the T lower, lessening the chances of desensitization and he has hundreds of patients on the same protocol. He doesn't do hCG or AI's either.

****ing idiot

[rustyjames]

"400mg of test C twice a month." ?!?!?!
I do 60mg twice a week. When I was injecting 120mg once a week I was getting sensative nips and a slightly noticeable change in the way I felt from fluctuating levels. At twice a week that has all gone away. I can't imagine what 400 every 2 weeks would be like. Look for another Doc

[fit2bOld]

That protocol will surely make you feel worse. Small amount of test administered bi weekly along with an AI if needed and verified by bllodwork as well as HCG to protect the boys. This Dr must be from the ice age.

[kelkel]

****ing idiot

X2. Run from this doctor. He seriously has no clue what he's doing and should not be allowed to prescribe test to anyone.

Yes, your test is low. I don't think a causative factor was pin-pointed so I don't know if there's something that is correctable or not. Which is another reason to find a good doctor. One thing for sure though, you'd feel much better at a higher T level. Higher test levels (within reason) are just healthier.

[Trific]

Is your doc E. Barry Gordon?

[CobraMustangSVT]

Is your doc E. Barry Gordon?

Hello,
Yes he is.

Thanks

[powerlifterty16]

Is your doc E. Barry Gordon?

nice catch! ive been to him myself op..guy is not for you...run

he wanted to treat me at age 19 with no hcg , and once per month injections..no bloodwork, and no ai...and told me i could just come off t if i werent happy..also apparently the test he ordered for me said i was over 600(never showed me it though), and he still wanted to give me test.
I know a urologist, and he told me gordon is getting arrested...but the urologist italked to is just as bad as gordon..lol

[CobraMustangSVT]

Damn, I don't know of any other in this area. Maybe I could check with the VA.

[ppwc1985]

Damn, I don't know of any other in this area. Maybe I could check with the VA.

Where you located?

[CobraMustangSVT]

I'm in Brooklyn, NYC

Thanks

[Trific]

Powerlifter and 2Sox and others can help you find a doc, could start a new thread if you need to.

Need new Dr. in Brooklyn

[ppwc1985]

Go to lowtestosterone.com, you will have to go to pa to see dr but only once a year. That's who I went with. I'm pretty sure they own this website to. I'm in CT and have to go to newtown, pa.