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Thread: Surprising results of first blood check

  1. #1
    imom is offline Banned
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    Surprising results of first blood check

    I started a course of HGH and Test a few weeks ago to correct my low levels, so I wanted to check how things were going.

    HGH

    My IGF-1 was at 141 ng/ml (lab range: 160-318)
    I took 2IU of HGH daily
    My IGF-1 is now at 692!

    I am surprised that it is so high after being on such a moderate protocol. Obviously I could cut back to 1IU/day and retest in a few weeks. Any ideas why it shot up so much?

    Testosterone

    My Test was at 3.3 (lab range: 2.6-11)
    My Test Free was at 9.7 (lab range: 6.6-30)
    I took 25mg Test Propionate 3 times a week
    Plus 250IU HCG 3 times a week

    My Test is now 14.3 and Test Free is 22.2.

    Again, I am a bit surprised at the huge difference, and again I can reduce the regimen and re-test. I would prefer to cut down on the HCG than the Test - perhaps halve it. Does that sound reasonable?

    Estradiol

    My Est was at 41 (lab range: 15-47)
    I took 0.25mg of Anstrozole twice a week
    My Est is now 110

    I took the Anastrozole because my Est was already high and I knew that the Test/HCG would only add to it. I am surprised that it has increased so much under the anastrozole regimen. I assume I should double the dose from now on (to 1mg/week) and retest in a few weeks? How does one know if one's Est levels are not aromatase-related (in which case taking the AI is ineffective)? This result concerns me the most.

    Would be grateful for any expert input!
    Last edited by imom; 06-11-2013 at 03:40 AM.

  2. #2
    bass's Avatar
    bass is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    what you're doing is not going to correct your low T problem unless you are planning to stay on it for life. when did you draw blood in relation to your last test and HGH shot? IGF-1 can go up with testosterone by itself, so adding HGH will definitely double it. why are you taking HGH? if its not prescribed by a doc stop taking it, HGH if not monitored by a doc can be very risky.

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    HRTstudent's Avatar
    HRTstudent is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    what is your goal with all of this?

  4. #4
    imom is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    what you're doing is not going to correct your low T problem unless you are planning to stay on it for life.
    My low T is very likely due to my low LH, and I'm not aware of any better way to treat this.

    when did you draw blood in relation to your last test and HGH shot?
    In the morning, around 24 hours after previous HGH shot, and 48 hours since last Test Propionate shot.

    IGF-1 can go up with testosterone by itself,
    Are you sure about that? Do you have a source? If that were true then IGF-1 would be useless as a measure of endogenous HGH production. From everything I've read, IGF-1 production is stimulated only by HGH.

    why are you taking HGH? if its not prescribed by a doc stop taking it, HGH if not monitored by a doc can be very risky.
    Because my IGF-1 was so low, and because my general QOL issues seem to be all common to low HGH. I am also interested in the anti-ageing benefits.

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    imom is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRTstudent View Post
    what is your goal with all of this?
    My goal is to maintain optimal levels of all hormones, for long term health.

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    jimmyinkedup's Avatar
    jimmyinkedup is offline Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    IGF-1 can go up with testosterone by itself, so adding HGH will definitely double it.
    Great great point. Here is some data to support this:

    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Mar;89(3):1285-90.

    Short-term testosterone supplementation relieves growth hormone autonegative feedback in men.

    Veldhuis JD, Evans WS, Iranmanesh A, Weltman AL, Bowers CY.

    Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism (J.D.V.), Department of Internal Medicine, Mayo Medical and Graduate Schools of Medicine, General Clinical Research Center, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota 55905.

    The present study tests the postulate that testosterone (Te) stimulates GH secretion, in part, by attenuating autonegative feedback. To this end, 13 healthy men (ages 43-71 yr) received three consecutive weekly im injections of placebo (Pl) (n = 7) or Te (200 mg) (n = 6) in a prospectively randomized, double-blind, parallel-cohort design. An iv pulse of saline or recombinant human (rh)GH (3 micro g/kg.6 min) was infused 2 h before bolus saline or GH-releasing peptide (GHRP)-2 (1 micro g/kg) in the fasting state. Blood was withdrawn every 10 min, GH concentrations were quantitated by chemiluminometry, secretion was determined by deconvolution analysis, and outcomes were compared by ANOVA. After Pl, rhGH suppressed basal, pulsatile, and GHRP-2-stimulated GH secretion by 2.6-, 2.4-, and 2.1-fold, respectively (each P < 0.03), and truncated GHRP-2-stimulated GH secretory bursts (P < 0.005). Compared with Pl, Te: 1) stimulated basal and pulsatile GH secretion by 1.9 and 2.4-fold (P < 0.01 and P < 0.02), respectively; 2) reduced feedback on basal GH secretion (P < 0.01); 3) blunted GHRP-2-stimulation by 1.9-fold (P < 0.01); and 4) facilitated initial recovery of rhGH-suppressed GH concentrations (P < 0.005). The foregoing actions were selective, inasmuch as Te did not relieve autoinhibition of pulsatile GH secretion. In summary, short-term Te supplementation decreases rhGH-imposed negative feedback on basal GH secretion and enhances early escape of GH from autoinhibition. In principle, such actions could potentiate the renewal of high-amplitude pulses of GH in androgen-replete individuals.


    http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...2/337.full.pdf

    The combined effect of growth hormone and oxandrol... [J Pediatr. 1980] - PubMed - NCBI

    Treatment of constitutional delay of growth and puberty with oxandrolone compared with growth hormone.
    imom and bass like this.

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    imom is offline Banned
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    First of all, thanks for the article. It's always a pleasure to learn something new. I found the original online:
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/90/3/1613.full.pdf

    However, I'm not sure how relevant the study is to my situation, as the subjects in the study received a single high dose of 300mg of Testosterone enanthate , whereas I have been taking a dose of 25mg of Testosterone propionate - a huge difference. Furthermore, the IGF-1 was elevated by less than 20% in this study, far from the doubling which was claimed by 'bass'. I have to draw the conclusion that with my relatively small doses of Test, the resulting difference in IGF-1 levels will be insignificant.

  8. #8
    bass's Avatar
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    my IGF-1 went from low normal to almost double the normal in a short time. I am sure due to your injection timing HGH was at its peek, its also possible that you are a good responder to HGH and testosterone .


    this is my results from last year on 120 mgs test ew,

    Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 340 High ng/mL 87-238

  9. #9
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    chi
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    are you male or female? Stats?

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    imom is offline Banned
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    Hi Bass, what was your IGF-1 before you started? Were you taking only Test and nothing else? Btw, I'm taking 75mg each week which is almost half your dose.

  11. #11
    imom is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by chi View Post
    are you male or female? Stats?
    Male, 42, BMI 22.8 (normal)

    Surprising results of first blood check-body.jpg

  12. #12
    bass's Avatar
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    it was in low 100s

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