Subcutaneous its official

[100%]

Looks like Dr Crisler is gonna be saying I told you so. Evaluation of the efficacy of subcutaneous administration of testosterone in female to male transexuals and hypogonadal males -- Olshan et al. 34 (3): MON-594 -- Endocrine Reviews

[Ryanmcd]

Looks like Dr Crisler is gonna be saying I told you so. Evaluation of the efficacy of subcutaneous administration of testosterone in female to male transexuals and hypogonadal males -- Olshan et al. 34 (3): MON-594 -- Endocrine Reviews

I guess if you want to be a tranny SC is the way to go!

[FRDave]

I guess if you want to be a tranny SC is the way to go!

Or if you want an effective easy way to inject weekly without putting thousands (edited to help Ryanmcd's OCD) of holes in your muscles over a life time of TRT. Not to mention its way less intimidating than injecting IM, thus many can get the benefits of injections vs transdermals without the anxiety.

[Ryanmcd]

hundreds of thousands

you inject every 15min?

[FRDave]

you inject every 15min?

Thousands... approx. 4800 injections if I were to inject till i'm 80. I'm not trying to get technical nor do I have the time, just making a point.

Don't read between the lines ;-)

[100%]

I guess if you want to be a tranny SC is the way to go!

The gay community and hiv epidemic is were we have gotten the highest quality case studies. The treatment we are all using has been greatly improved based on those studies. You should be less concerned about the people in the studies personal choices and more about the results.

[ZenFitness]

Great info, thanks for passing this along. I'm still considering SQ.

From the article:

T levels were well within the therapeutic range varying from 320-824 ng/dL (mean 608± 82SE).

I'm not sure I want to go SQ and end up at 320!! I also wish they compared the dosage difference used between IM and SQ as the article indicates the dosage could be lowered.

[FRDave]

Great info, thanks for passing this along. I'm still considering SQ.

From the article:

I'm not sure I want to go SQ and end up at 320!! I also wish they compared the dosage difference used between IM and SQ as the article indicates the dosage could be lowered.

I inject 40mg via sub-Q every Tues & Sat for a total of 80mg per week and was sitting at 878 ng/dL on my last set of labs.

[ZenFitness]

Thanks FRDave, that's a great result and hope I have the same success. Can I ask what your pre-SQ dosage/week was and when you do your testing (i.e. do you test just before a shot, after, midway, etc... basically is that a peak or trough number)?

[roxer]

I have to say after following FRDave's suggestion to inject hCG in the love handles and test in upper/outer glute fat, I don't get that queasy feeling in my stomach from injecting in stomach fat. I can also feel it working much better than before. I just need to get my levels checked now to find out where I am. SC injections are painless - don't even feel that 30/31g needle.

[100%]

Great info, thanks for passing this along. I'm still considering SQ.

From the article:



I'm not sure I want to go SQ and end up at 320!! I also wish they compared the dosage difference used between IM and SQ as the article indicates the dosage could be lowered.

Keep in mind they are only using 50 or 60 mg once a week and average was 608

[LowT Mike]

SubQ T works great. Theyve been using SubQ Testosteorne in pediatric endocrinology for over 15 years. No big secret there to the well trained Board cert Anti-Aging guy.

[FRDave]

Thanks FRDave, that's a great result and hope I have the same success. Can I ask what your pre-SQ dosage/week was and when you do your testing (i.e. do you test just before a shot, after, midway, etc... basically is that a peak or trough number)?

I never injected IM, started right off the bat with sub-Q so I can't make any comparisons. I would have an anxiety attack sticking myself with a 1.5" long needle, so I'm glad sub-Q worked in my favor.

As for lab work, I get blood drawn on the day of my test shot, but before injecting, so my numbers would be trough, not peak.

On another note, I noticed my levels kept climbing for a good 10-12 weeks when starting TRT, so I would assume sub-Q injections take longer to saturate the blood vs IM. With this in mind, I would not base your results off your typical labs 6 weeks in like most Dr's recommend as it will probably continue to rise.

[HRTstudent]

Dr. Crisler was actually not the "earliest" pioneers of subQ. as far as I know in the trt/hrt world it was shippen, who then tuned on Dr. Crisler to the idea after some time.

I had no idea that they were using subQ T in peds a decade and a half ago as stated above...

[100%]

Dr. Crisler was actually not the "earliest" pioneers of subQ. as far as I know in the trt/hrt world it was shippen, who then tuned on Dr. Crisler to the idea after some time.

I had no idea that they were using subQ T in peds a decade and a half ago as stated above...

Correct I have heard Dr. Crisler give credit to Shippen several times.
To my knowledge this is the only U.S. that proofs the theory. I also found it use in pediatric endocrinology very interesting if you look at studies references one is Children's Hosp Boston, Boston,MA.

[Trific]

Yes, the show recently aired with Crisler on "super human radio" about the SQ.

[slimshady01]

Wouldn't it be a nightmare loading up a slin pin of test? I tried it once took freaking forever to get the oil in

[marcus300]

Not a chance I would be using my trt sub-q seeing that its 4ml injection lol

[Trific]

Wouldn't it be a nightmare loading up a slin pin of test? I tried it once took freaking forever to get the oil in

Many on here do it all the time....some oils are thicker but most guys seem to load and unload in less than 2 minutes either way...some even heat their test first.

[ZenFitness]

4 ml injection is 200 mg a week, no? Is one whole insulin syringe 1 ml?

[marcus300]

4 ml injection is 200 mg a week, no? Is one whole insulin syringe 1 ml?

No 4ml isn't 200mgs, lol my trt is nebido 4ml 1000mgs every 11 weeks.

[OLDANDWEAK]

I have been doing subQ for 6 months now and had blood pulled today for testing. After several months on intramuscular injections my total test was 680, can't wait to have results from subQ to compare and will post them here once I have them.

[FRDave]

I have been doing subQ for 6 months now and had blood pulled today for testing. After several months on intramuscular injections my total test was 680, can't wait to have results from subQ to compare and will post them here once I have them.

You injecting the same amount as you did via IM? Feeling the same/good/better since the switch to sub-Q?

[JD250]

been on sub Q for going on a year and the results are great, small injection, cheap allergy syringes, no pain, no brainer.....

[OLDANDWEAK]

Yes, the same protocol. Only difference is instead of 200mgs. every other week, I do 50mgs. twice a week. I feel good all the time now instead of feeling like a hero for a few days, and a zero for a week and a half. I also hated that big knot in my glute from the IM injection, the subQ is so much easier on me.

[dreadnok89]

[QUOTE=OLDANDWEAK;6597170]Yes, the same protocol. Only difference is instead of 200mgs. every other week, I do 50mgs. twice a week. I feel good all the time now instead of feeling like a hero for a few days, and a zero for a week and a half. I also hated that big knot in my glute from the IM injection, the subQ is so much easier on me.[/QUO

So you feel better because the dosage timing correct or because of sub?

[VTX1800]

IM 100mg twice a week, steady at 1048 and my doc loves my numbers in the low thousands. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

[FRDave]

I just got some updated blood work this past saturday and am sitting at 991 injecting 80mg per week sub-Q :-D

[jm1429]

So I am doing 50mg 2x week IM, can I just switch and start doing sub-Q or do you have to ease into it?

[roxer]

Just switch - I did.

[OLDANDWEAK]

I feel better because I am getting a more steady hormone level from injecting a smaller amount twice a week rather than Injecting a large dosage once every two weeks. The subQ part of it is that I am not injecting intramuscular twice per week, and the subQ is much easier and lass painful.
Edit: this was a reply to dreadknok89, I meant to quote his reply.

[100%]

Some of you guys switching may want to go try 20mg less then you do IM. Subq is said to more effective at lower dose then IM you can always go up if you need to.

[Alright john]

Are you guys using a slin pin and where are you injecting

[APIs]

IM 100mg twice a week, steady at 1048 and my doc loves my numbers in the low thousands. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

x2. IDK, just call me a creature of habit...

[FRDave]

Are you guys using a slin pin and where are you injecting

I use a 26g rotating between left and right upper/outter most portion of the glutes. HCG I inject sub-Q in the love handles rotating between left and right.

[bass]

Not a chance I would be using my trt sub-q seeing that its 4ml injection lol

jabbing yourself in 10 places SQ should to do it Marcus, but looking at your avi I don't think there is enough fat to do it anyway I guess IM once every two months ain't so bad.

[SEOINAGE]

would this be legit enough information to share with my doctor? or can I compile more info? I am personally on subq with decent blood work, in range and doctor didn't want to change it other than adding ai back into protocol. But the doctor doesn't know it is subq. Would be nice to get him on board, I mentioned other information, but didn't have any decent data to give him.

[bass]

complain about getting sore, then ask him if you can try like SQ. this way if he agrees then he'll think it was his idea! but taking this info won't hurt either.

[100%]

would this be legit enough information to share with my doctor? or can I compile more info? I am personally on subq with decent blood work, in range and doctor didn't want to change it other than adding ai back into protocol. But the doctor doesn't know it is subq. Would be nice to get him on board, I mentioned other information, but didn't have any decent data to give him.

Yes here is a pub med study also
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A p... [Saudi Med J. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI
Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6.
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.
Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Source
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. [email protected]
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients.
METHODS:
All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe.
RESULTS:
A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported.
CONCLUSION:
Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
PMID: 17143361 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Brazensol]

Twice a week subq works for me. No pain at all. Can't even feel the needle go in. What's not to like?