My B**ch ENDO Dropped Me!!!!

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-01-2013, 02:00 PM

So the title says it all...

Here me out!!!!

I've been seeing this endo for about 4months now battling some gyno...
We would do blood work every 4 weeks and she prescribed Tamoxifen 20-40mg/day
After taking it for some time I realized my E was elevating and I wanted an AI, she refused.
I also read and received numerous advice PMs to try Raloxifene as it was far superior, so I paid out of pocket for that medication elsewhere...

So I started self medicating to bring my e2 level within normal range, while still seeing her and without telling her I was using the Raloxifene instead of the Tamoxifen, all good, she just thought my e2 came down while everything else was nearly 3x the normal amount.

I requested some additional bloodwork because she put me on Armour Thyroid, due to "sub clinical hypothyroidism"
such as;

- DHT (I've been losing my hair and its been thinning out, especially my eyebrows) [[anybody else get these sides?]]
- Total T4
- Free T4
- Total T3
- Free T3

The next thing I know I get a phone call with her saying she can no longer be my doctor that our "relationship" isn't working out! B**ch, I'm not F**king you... I'm paying for your Lexus with my insurance mother F**ker! I found out that she didn't like that I was requesting these blood tests and felt intimidated by my knowledge on the subject. I'm the type of person who hounds the internet for information and read studies on the endocrine system.

Needless to say I was pissed and now have to start all over with finding a new endo that:
A) Is willing to run labs every 4 weeks
B) Prescribe Armour Thyroid
C) has working knowledge with fighting Gynecomastia
and
D) Is open to the possibility of TRT

What do u guys think...honestly?
Can LowT.com help me with these issues? I'm almost ready to jump ship and go see an endo who really knows his stuff, instead of this BS here...

**V-ROID** · 08-01-2013, 02:13 PM

If that is how it actually went down then at the very least leave her a bad review to warn others. Maybe you will save some poor sucker some time. And yes I believe LowT.com can help you, but if you are self medicating against their advice they might drop you too. Good luck and sorry to hear about your troubles.

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-01-2013, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by VEGAN-O-ROID

If that is how it actually went down then at the very least leave her a bad review to warn others. Maybe you will save some poor sucker some time. And yes I believe LowT.com can help you, but if you are self medicating against their advice they might drop you too. Good luck and sorry to hear about your troubles.

I will definitely be leaving her terrible reviews at every site I can possibly find.

**Rusty11** · 08-01-2013, 02:18 PM

Wow. Being left out in the cold with no where to go sux. Now, why EXACTLY did she drop you? Something in bw? She found out you were doing something without her knowledge? Or something else?? Anyway, a lot of docs get intimidated by patience with too much knowledge. Is there more to this story??

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-01-2013, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rusty11

Wow. Being left out in the cold with no where to go sux. Now, why EXACTLY did she drop you? Something in bw? She found out you were doing something without her knowledge? Or something else?? Anyway, a lot of docs get intimidated by patience with too much knowledge. Is there more to this story??

Her words were: "Our working relationship doesn't seem to be working out.. you're requesting bloodwork too often and things I don't feel are necessary to test for and I don't feel comfortable with that."

I was like, you have an MD in front of your name, at least tell me I'm crossing a boundary and we can squash this... I later found out through my primary care physician that this office does this a lot. They will drop people and then no one in their office will see them. My primary care physician even thought it was a little extreme...

True story, nothing else to it.

She didn't know anything else...

**V-ROID** · 08-01-2013, 02:24 PM

Yes heaven forbid you do an incredible amount of research on your condition and start bouncing ideas off of your doctor. Especially if you got your info from the internet! What a trouble maker...

**V-ROID** · 08-01-2013, 02:29 PM

I also think a lot of young doctors are intimidated by the idea of getting sued from doing "experimental medicine" with TRT. If you know your stuff (which I don't yet) and you can afford your own blood tests, there is a high probability that you can treat yourself better than the vast majority of endos.

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-01-2013, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by VEGAN-O-ROID

Yes heaven forbid you do an incredible amount of research on your condition and start bouncing ideas off of your doctor. Especially if you got your info from the internet! What a trouble maker...

My girlfriend and I came up with the conclusion that she really felt intimidated...my gf is becoming a doctor so she has some experience...

but back to my main concern... can LowT.com help me?

**V-ROID** · 08-01-2013, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving

My girlfriend and I came up with the conclusion that she really felt intimidated...my gf is becoming a doctor so she has some experience...

but back to my main concern... can LowT.com help me?

Hell yes call them up and see if they have a location in your area. They also have a plan to fly in and see a specialist.

**austinite** · 08-01-2013, 02:33 PM

KIM, go to forums.lowtestosterone.com, signup on that forum, and give them a call. 1-800-345-5698. They can point you in the right direction.

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-01-2013, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

KIM, go to forums.lowtestosterone.com, signup on that forum, and give them a call. 1-800-345-5698. They can point you in the right direction.

done

**Rusty11** · 08-01-2013, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving

Her words were: "Our working relationship doesn't seem to be working out.. you're requesting bloodwork too often and things I don't feel are necessary to test for and I don't feel comfortable with that."

I was like, you have an MD in front of your name, at least tell me I'm crossing a boundary and we can squash this... I later found out through my primary care physician that this office does this a lot. They will drop people and then no one in their office will see them. My primary care physician even thought it was a little extreme...

True story, nothing else to it.

She didn't know anything else...

Ahh, I see. My doc used to get uncomfortable and a bit snippy when I requested e2 sensitive bw. I backed off and just do it myself now.
If I was cut off like you, I would definitely contact lowT. Good luck

**Low Testosterone** · 08-01-2013, 02:46 PM

This seems to be the perfect thread to address an important issue of concern many have when seeking out or undergoing TRT.

Many have a strong desire to find a doctor that they can communicate with at any given time. They want to be able to call or message their doctor and receive a response in a very short time anytime they reach out. As all of us here are reasonable adults, if we stop and think about this I believe we can all agree this is extremely unrealistic. Unless a doctor has very few patients, there's no way this can be achieved. Further, like anyone else they have a life outside of their practice, family, friends, etc.

Then there's the good news.

At LowTestosterone.com we've developed a program that allows for more communication if the client/patient desires. You have a doctor you see, but you also have an entire medical staff that reviews and keeps up with your treatment. You can call LowTestosterone.com anytime and receive a fast and accurate answer to your questions. Our medical staff here see everything your doctor sees. Each and every individual's care is kept up with thoroughly. If you go to one doctor you are relying on one person and only one person, and odds are strong their schedule will not always match up with yours.

Another bit of good news, TRT is not an extremely complicated process. The complicated part is when you have "Medical Experts" that don't know what they're doing but at LowTestosterone.com you have a whole team of experts who do nothing but deal with TRT.

**bass** · 08-01-2013, 03:49 PM

that is a lame excuse about doctor/patient relationship! well if you don't mind paying out of pocket them LowT is your best bet.

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-01-2013, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by bass

that is a lame excuse about doctor/patient relationship! well if you don't mind paying out of pocket them LowT is your best bet.

Yeah I've already contacted them and getting things rolling..
Thanks all...

**powerlifterty16** · 08-01-2013, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving

I will definitely be leaving her terrible reviews at every site I can possibly find.

i do that all the time...find her on vitals.com ratemds.com ucompare heatlh .com healthgrades.com and wellnesshealth.com

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-01-2013, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

i do that all the time...find her on vitals.com ratemds.com ucompare heatlh .com healthgrades.com and wellnesshealth.com

just gave her reviews on all those sites....
thanks for the head's up

**FONZY007** · 08-01-2013, 09:28 PM

My endo didn't know how to treat also. He was prescribing me 100mg a week that was putting me at the high 200's low 300's.. Started to break out with acne I couldn't control felt a yo-yo effect and all he stated was take 100mg every 2-3 weeks.. WTF... I've seen him for 4+ years.. Started to make changes told him he wasn't comfortable and was kick also LMAO.. I see my GP I give him a list of blood test done yearly and been on the same protocol for about 2 years.. 80mg twice a week with .25mg of Adex day after injection.. Now my numbers in mid 400's I've lost 40+ lbs. so I don't know if numbers increased due to losing fat

Good luck with lowt

**Bonaparte** · 08-01-2013, 09:44 PM

Like Nolva, Raloxifene doesn't lower E2. It just outcompetes it in breast tissue.

**ppwc1985** · 08-01-2013, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

KIM, go to forums.lowtestosterone.com, signup on that forum, and give them a call. 1-800-345-5698. They can point you in the right direction.

Hey austinite, you think maybe lowt forums are going to get an app for those forums. It sure would be nice.

**austinite** · 08-01-2013, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by ppwc1985

Hey austinite, you think maybe lowt forums are going to get an app for those forums. It sure would be nice.

Yeah I think they will once traffic picks up. I agree, I like the app

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-03-2013, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Like Nolva, Raloxifene doesn't lower E2. It just outcompetes it in breast tissue.

Yes and this stimulated lh and fsh production which produces more testosterone in my body and whenever there is more t, there will sure to be more e...my endo couldn't grasp this concept. she said my e levels will level out. thats why i had to take an ai to bring my e in check while using nolva or ralo... i had e at 24 with t at 1300, and she didnt have a clue... she was like oh wow, looks like your e is back in check, now lets wait for your t to come back to normal..
that was a red flag, all that med school and she couldnt figure that one out...
damn, she got robbed for her tuition money.

AD · 08-03-2013, 08:43 AM

Like many other subjects, medicine is probably too broad to have everything taught within those 5-6 years. Even for an endo, they are mostly interested in common problems like diabetes and hyperthyroidism. Not many of them will know the sex hormones very well. But who can blame them? They probably see us users as just another junkie who don't want to quit. Doesn't give them much motivation to go into this field in depth.

**m_donnelly** · 08-03-2013, 12:22 PM

It's against the law for her to drop you without referring you to another doctor. She has to keep prescribing you medication until you get in with another doctor.

I know this because a shrink and I went rounds because he wasnt billing my insurance properly, wasnt getting paid and started demanding cash up front. I tossed the law in his face, told him to give me a referral to another shrink and three months worth of meds. He couldnt find another shrink to ship me off to so I got six months worth of meds out of him and a fvck you as I walked out the door. Insurance paid in full three weeks later and I ended up cutting him a check for twenty bucks.

**austinite** · 08-03-2013, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by m_donnelly

It's against the law for her to drop you without referring you to another doctor. She has to keep prescribing you medication until you get in with another doctor.

I know this because a shrink and I went rounds because he wasnt billing my insurance properly, wasnt getting paid and started demanding cash up front. I tossed the law in his face, told him to give me a referral to another shrink and three months worth of meds. He couldnt find another shrink to ship me off to so I got six months worth of meds out of him and a fvck you as I walked out the door. Insurance paid in full three weeks later and I ended up cutting him a check for twenty bucks.

No, it's not against the law. It's only against the law if he was rejected due to religion, race, etc... Furthermore; testosterone therapy is not considered a life-threatening condition or an 'emergency' where a referral would be necessary. Your situation is unique and uncommon where insurance company was involved, a settlement, etc...

Doctors have every right to turn patients away if they don't pay, if communication becomes an issue, if the patient expresses any aggression, etc... There is no law that states they have to buckle and treat a patient under any circumstance.

Look up "The right to refuse treatment: a model act."

**Beethoven** · 08-03-2013, 01:31 PM

My primary was ok in that he got me started but he is really not into the whole spectrum. He just gave me test Cyp to get me within "FDA" levels and that's it. Didn't check E2 or anything else. My new Doc did a complete work up as described on this forum, started me on HCG for a month, will do t levels and the like in a month and we're going from there. Most Docs are unfamiliar with the ins and outs of hrt, and many will become uncomfortable with someone telling them their business. Good luck with low t.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-03-2013, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Beethoven

My primary was ok in that he got me started but he is really not into the whole spectrum. He just gave me test Cyp to get me within "FDA" levels and that's it. Didn't check E2 or anything else. My new Doc did a complete work up as described on this forum, started me on HCG for a month, will do t levels and the like in a month and we're going from there. Most Docs are unfamiliar with the ins and outs of hrt, and many will become uncomfortable with someone telling them their business. Good luck with low t.

yeah i hate when they ****ing tell me to stop looking on the internet..maybe they should start

**FONZY007** · 08-03-2013, 03:24 PM

Just went to my GP needed to give me a refill, he said when was the last time we did BW I said November, he then said test him for testosterone lol.. I've lost weight and you can tell I'm working out..

The lady was at lunch so he asked my wife have I've been a good boy she said yes lol..

Then he called in my prescription, told me come holloween week for BW...

**m_donnelly** · 08-03-2013, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

No, it's not against the law. It's only against the law if he was rejected due to religion, race, etc... Furthermore; testosterone therapy is not considered a life-threatening condition or an 'emergency' where a referral would be necessary. Your situation is unique and uncommon where insurance company was involved, a settlement, etc...

Doctors have every right to turn patients away if they don't pay, if communication becomes an issue, if the patient expresses any aggression, etc... There is no law that states they have to buckle and treat a patient under any circumstance.

Look up "The right to refuse treatment: a model act."

Apparently, it is different with psychiatrists because they're prescribing psychotropics. My wife works as a mental health therapist as well as a case manager for crazy weirdos like me. The shrink has to prescribe your medication until you find a new provider. However, there's a three month limit on it. Basically, he had to give me the meds but didn't have to "treat" me if I had problems.

This dude tried to cut me off, without a medication refill, because he was billing my previous insurance provider and not the current one. Even after I gave him the information twice.

**austinite** · 08-03-2013, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by m_donnelly

Apparently, it is different with psychiatrists because they're prescribing psychotropics. My wife works as a mental health therapist as well as a case manager for crazy weirdos like me. The shrink has to prescribe your medication until you find a new provider. However, there's a three month limit on it. Basically, he had to give me the meds but didn't have to "treat" me if I had problems.

This dude tried to cut me off, without a medication refill, because he was billing my previous insurance provider and not the current one. Even after I gave him the information twice.

Yeah that's not good. Glad you ended up getting what was deserved. Sounds like that doc has some serious issues.

**Low Testosterone** · 08-04-2013, 03:13 AM

From the American Medical Association Code of Ethics:

Ending the Patient-Physician Relationship

Once a patient-physician relationship is begun, a physician generally is under both an ethical and legal obligation to provide services as long as the patient needs them. There may be times, however, when you may no longer be able to provide care. It may be that the patient is noncompliant, unreasonably demanding, threatening to you and/or your staff, or otherwise contributing to a breakdown in the patient-physician relationship. Or, it may be necessary to end the relationship simply due to relocation, retirement, or unanticipated termination by a managed care plan and/or employer.

Regardless of the situation, to avoid a claim of "patient abandonment," a physician must follow appropriate steps to terminate the patient-physician relationship. Abandonment is defined as the termination of a professional relationship between physician and patient at an unreasonable time and without giving the patient the chance to find an equally qualified replacement. To prove abandonment, the patient must show more than a simple termination of a patient-physician relationship. The plaintiff must prove that the physician ended the relationship at a critical stage of the patient's treatment without good reason or sufficient notice to allow the patient to find another physician, and the patient was injured as a result. Usually, expert evidence is required to establish whether termination in fact happened at a critical stage of treatment.

A physician who does not terminate the patient-physician relationship properly may also run afoul of ethical requirements. According to the AMA's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, a physician may not discontinue treatment of a patient as long as further treatment is medically indicated, without giving the patient reasonable notice and sufficient opportunity to make alternative arrangements for care. Further, the patient's failure to pay a bill does not end the relationship, as the relationship is based on fiduciary, rather than a financial responsibility. According to the AMA's Code of Medical Ethics, Opinion 8.115, physicians have the option of terminating the patient-physician relationship, but they must give sufficient notice of withdrawal to the relatives, or responsible friends and guardians to allow another physician to be secured.

Appropriate steps to terminate the patient-physician relationship typically include:

1. Giving the patient written notice, preferably by certified mail, return receipt requested;

2. Providing the patient with a brief explanation for terminating the relationship (this should be a valid reason, for instance non-compliance, failure to keep appointments.);

3. Agreeing to continue to provide treatment and access to services for a reasonable period of time, such as 30 days, to allow a patient to secure care from another person (a physician may want to extend the period for emergency services);

4. Providing resources and/or recommendations to help a patient locate another physician of like specialty; and

5. Offering to transfer records to a newly-designated physician upon signed patient authorization to do so.

Following this protocol may be easier in some situations than others. For example, if a physician has signed a covenant-not-to-compete, chances are the employer will not hand over the patient list upon notice of departure. In instances such as these, you (in consultation with your attorney) may want to provide a model patient termination letter to the party withholding your patients' addresses, and request that the addresses and letter be merged for distribution to your patients. Ideally, you should not be in a contractual arrangement that makes contacting your patients difficult. However, if you find yourself in this situation, work with an attorney to ensure that appropriate steps are taken.

**m_donnelly** · 08-04-2013, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

Yeah that's not good. Glad you ended up getting what was deserved. Sounds like that doc has some serious issues.

He and I had gone around and around about money. I told him and his biller that I wasn't paying them a dime until they dealt with insurance. I had made the mistake of paying him up front once when he said the insurance company stated I hadn't reached my deductible. Turned out it was bullsh-t and it took me six months to get my money back. I should have switched docs then but it's hard to find a shrink around here.