the real deal on restarting

**powerlifterty16** · 08-06-2013, 06:04 PM

if a guy is on trt for 10 years with a baseline tt of 250-400, and also is on hcg for those 10 years....and then he decides to stop trt due to financial concerns, what levels could he expect after a pct of hcg and clomid?

i know this isnt exact, but just curious what you guys think....im not asking about anyone specific, just curious what you guys think the levels would go back to if you all quit trt.

**Ryanmcd** · 08-06-2013, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

if a guy is on trt for 10 years with a baseline tt of 250-400, and also is on hcg for those 10 years....and then he decides to stop trt due to financial concerns, what levels could he expect after a pct of hcg and clomid?

i know this isnt exact, but just curious what you guys think....im not asking about anyone specific, just curious what you guys think the levels would go back to if you all quit trt.

I asked this to Crisler and he said I would just feel like shit again. Stop posting and find a doc!

**powerlifterty16** · 08-06-2013, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

I asked this to Crisler and he said I would just feel like shit again. Stop posting and find a doc!

lmao dude im trying...and my question was not about whether you'd feel alright since you didnt feel alright before trt, but im wondering if you would be able to get your pre trt levels back after all that time on trt

**Ryanmcd** · 08-06-2013, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

lmao dude im trying...and my question was not about whether you'd feel alright since you didnt feel alright before trt, but im wondering if you would be able to get your pre trt levels back after all that time on trt

I think you would go back to your base or lower, it's kind of a pointless question as no one on TRT for 10+ years is every going to go off unless something happens but if that's the issue I would say TRT maybe of a lesser concern.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-06-2013, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

I think you would go back to your base or lower, it's kind of a pointless question as no one on TRT for 10+ years is every going to go off unless something happens but if that's the issue I would say TRT maybe of a lesser concern.

just curiosity and i thought it'd make an interesting discussion, dont understand the anger coming from you. I also saw nate92 asked if he could trial trt and thought this would help him.

forever is a long time to say you will never come off of trt..you never know what can happen

**Metalject** · 08-07-2013, 01:56 AM

If you actually have low testosterone , you would go back to where you were prior to treatment at best. Odds are you would be lower as you are now 10yrs older.

**APIs** · 08-07-2013, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

If you actually have low testosterone, you would go back to where you were prior to treatment at best. Odds are you would be lower as you are now 10yrs older.

Exactly & history on this forum suggests that re-starts simply dont work for the vast majority. Meaning, you'll maybe return to baseline numbers (if you're lucky).

**SEOINAGE** · 08-07-2013, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

If you actually have low testosterone, you would go back to where you were prior to treatment at best. Odds are you would be lower as you are now 10yrs older.

It would be hard for us to really know. Most likely back to baseline or lower. The rare case that you do a really solid restart, and you are one it works for, and that the restart would have worked to begin with, could possibly mean higher levels. I think that would be incentive to attempt a restart before trt. Especially since you run the risk of making things worse.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

It would be hard for us to really know. Most likely back to baseline or lower. The rare case that you do a really solid restart, and you are one it works for, and that the restart would have worked to begin with, could possibly mean higher levels. I think that would be incentive to attempt a restart before trt. Especially since you run the risk of making things worse.

i would think that if after 10 yrs on trt you could get back to baseline then there really isnt much risk of going on it..byt chances are you'd end up lower.
just my thought.

**bass** · 08-07-2013, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

Exactly & history on this forum suggests that re-starts simply dont work for the vast majority. Meaning, you'll maybe return to baseline numbers (if you're lucky).

exactly what I as going to say! basically if you get off TRT due to financial reason then you're screwed.

***LowT Mike*** · 08-07-2013, 01:56 PM

Your levels go back to prior TRT us and feeling like you did before you start.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by LowT Mike

Your levels go back to prior TRT us and feeling like you did before you start.

so then what's the risk? why do people say once you start you can't stop...sure feeling like pre trt wouldnt be good but if you dont go below trt thenthere is no risk...m assuming estrogen would go back to normal too.

**bass** · 08-07-2013, 02:25 PM

from what I have read and learned from this forum and real people its hit or miss situation. I always believed in the Point of no Return which is about 6-12 months. what I mean by that is you will most likely not go back at your prior levels even with proper PCT. I've read here many members who only cycled for 3 months and did proper PCT still never recovered fully, so my logic is if it happens to these people why wouldn't be worse for those who been on testosterone injections for 10 year?! bodybuilders cycle all the time, and when they retire at 45 or so most go on TRT.

***LowT Mike*** · 08-07-2013, 02:33 PM

No risk. "why do people say once you start you can't stop" not accurate at all.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 08-07-2013, 02:46 PM

I think what people mean is that:

If you suffer from LowT symptoms, TRT is going to help as long as you stay on TRT.

If you start on TRT and then stop, you are going to revert back to how you were before you went on TRT.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by LowT Mike

No risk. "why do people say once you start you can't stop" not accurate at all.

are you saying my post wasnt accurate or the people saying that is not accurate?
if the levels go back to normal(as you say) then i dont see the risk...but if what bass says is correct then yes there is a risk.

**FONZY007** · 08-07-2013, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

I think what people mean is that:

If you suffer from LowT symptoms, TRT is going to help as long as you stay on TRT.

If you start on TRT and then stop, you are going to revert back to how you were before you went on TRT.

Correct I did this to have a baby girl, did the pct and got off for a total of 3-4 months.. I felt like total shit after 2 months.. She got pregnant fast though, while I was doing pct she got pregnant and I stayed off her first trimester... For back on once I knew mama and baby where fine!

**m_donnelly** · 08-07-2013, 03:06 PM

The "Replacement" factor in Testosterone Replacement Therapy should be taken literally. You're replacing what your body isn't providing while stimulating your own system to keep it from shutting down. So, assuming you're doing things right with hCG and PCT, you'll return to where your body was previously. Maybe a little bit lower but you're not going to crash.

**Metalject** · 08-07-2013, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by m_donnelly

The "Replacement" factor in Testosterone Replacement Therapy should be taken literally. You're replacing what your body isn't providing while stimulating your own system to keep it from shutting down. So, assuming you're doing things right with hCG and PCT, you'll return to where your body was previously. Maybe a little bit lower but you're not going to crash.

PCT has no place in TRT. This is something some programs have developed as part of a marketing scheme in an effort to say they offer something others don't.

If you need TRT, should you really be that concerned about shutting your natural testosterone down? No, you shouldn't be. You don't have the ability to produce enough on your own to begin with.

If you stop TRT after being on it awhile, yes you will more than likely return to your low normal or whatever that low normal might be, but you will experience a crash in your levels before you return to that point. Think about it, a man's test levels are 300, he takes X amount of testosterone and now he's at 600 and his natural test is shutdown. Now, he adds HCG and his levels go to 750 and he holds there. A year later he comes off everything, why would he only drop down to 300? Yes, HCG has kept him stimulated but the HCG is no longer there and neither is the test. He's going to bottom out. His natural production will start again, but he's only returning to his previous low level state if not lower.

***LowT Mike*** · 08-07-2013, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

are you saying my post wasnt accurate or the people saying that is not accurate?
if the levels go back to normal(as you say) then i dont see the risk...but if what bass says is correct then yes there is a risk.

people are not accurate. you were very accurate about many people say that. lol

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by m_donnelly

The "Replacement" factor in Testosterone Replacement Therapy should be taken literally. You're replacing what your body isn't providing while stimulating your own system to keep it from shutting down. So, assuming you're doing things right with hCG and PCT, you'll return to where your body was previously. Maybe a little bit lower but you're not going to crash.

i would never do trt without hcg ..maybe taking clomid for most is even better...although i like hcg better.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

PCT has no place in TRT. This is something some programs have developed as part of a marketing scheme in an effort to say they offer something others don't.

If you need TRT, should you really be that concerned about shutting your natural testosterone down? No, you shouldn't be. You don't have the ability to produce enough on your own to begin with.

If you stop TRT after being on it awhile, yes you will more than likely return to your low normal or whatever that low normal might be, but you will experience a crash in your levels before you return to that point. Think about it, a man's test levels are 300, he takes X amount of testosterone and now he's at 600 and his natural test is shutdown. Now, he adds HCG and his levels go to 750 and he holds there. A year later he comes off everything, why would he only drop down to 300? Yes, HCG has kept him stimulated but the HCG is no longer there and neither is the test. He's going to bottom out. His natural production will start again, but he's only returning to his previous low level state if not lower.

i get concerned about natural test because it makes me medically dependent.

**Metalject** · 08-07-2013, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

i get concerned about natural test because it makes me medically dependent.

If you have low testosterone you are dependent on exogenous testosterone . There's no way around that, not unless you want to have suck ass levels.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

If you have low testosterone you are dependent on exogenous testosterone. There's no way around that, not unless you want to have suck ass levels.

but im dependent on doctors and my finances...and neither are that reliable over a long period of time.

**SEOINAGE** · 08-07-2013, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

i get concerned about natural test because it makes me medically dependent.

This is a real concern for most of us. Especially considering if you get thrown in jail, and for some reason can't get your meds. or other types of disasters. The law doesn't allow us to have a stockpile for emergency uses. Maybe nothing like this will ever happen, but imo it is something to prepare for much like you would food storage. The alternative is to have enough hcg and clomid and nolva, in hopes to bring you back to baseline levels faster. Personally I want to figure out a solution soon.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

This is a real concern for most of us. Especially considering if you get thrown in jail, and for some reason can't get your meds. or other types of disasters. The law doesn't allow us to have a stockpile for emergency uses. Maybe nothing like this will ever happen, but imo it is something to prepare for much like you would food storage. The alternative is to have enough hcg and clomid and nolva, in hopes to bring you back to baseline levels faster. Personally I want to figure out a solution soon.

if i got thrown in jail id hope someone would kill me the first day there.

**austinite** · 08-07-2013, 04:32 PM

Well that's simple... Don't get thrown in jail.

**m_donnelly** · 08-07-2013, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

i would never do trt without hcg..maybe taking clomid for most is even better...although i like hcg better.

hCG is more effective as its mimics LH and directly stimulates the testes.

I'd never heard of PCT in TRT until I started reading posts on this site. Upon further thought, I don't think Clomid has a place in TRT anyway.

**kelkel** · 08-07-2013, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

but im dependent on doctors and my finances...and neither are that reliable over a long period of time.

Hell, life is just plain unpredictable. Worry about the important stuff. Don't sweat the small stuff.

**bass** · 08-07-2013, 05:39 PM

here is a serious question,

what is the first question we "the experts" ask when a young lad posts his BW and his T levels are shot?

ay AAS use in the past? yes this is the questions, and why do we ask it? because we know use of AAS even with proper PCT can do some irreversible damage. think about it, atrophy accrues weather you take hCG or not, hCG only slows it down. many of us here have stated experiencing shrinkage while being on hCG. this may not be a "study" but its real life which hasn't been studied yet.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 06:16 PM

i ask about aas because i figure it can be reversed as opposed to trt.

**100%** · 08-07-2013, 06:58 PM

Testosterone: A Man's Guide: How to Stop Testosterone Safely and Possibly Reset Your Hormonal Axis
Some info on restart.

**MRNJ1992** · 08-07-2013, 08:27 PM

Your numbers will probably go back to where they were if not lower. I know everyone says they always feel better with the HRT, but I honestly feel no difference. Been on HRT for a few years. T level was as low as 117 and as high as 1100. Can honestly say I personally feel no difference except alittle more energy and strength. And as for sex drive, when my T levels are lower my drive is higher. Go figure. Good luck.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-07-2013, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by MRNJ1992

Your numbers will probably go back to where they were if not lower. I know everyone says they always feel better with the HRT, but I honestly feel no difference. Been on HRT for a few years. T level was as low as 117 and as high as 1100. Can honestly say I personally feel no difference except alittle more energy and strength. And as for sex drive, when my T levels are lower my drive is higher. Go figure. Good luck.

any difference mentally? how is your e2?

**< <Samson> >** · 08-07-2013, 09:34 PM

If you are looking to start TRT which ever way, don't think you can just back out after a very extended period of time.

I read all of the posts above & call BS. I see it as being on a insanely long cycle.

Coming off a 7 month cycle has been damn near impossible. Three months out of that was on a TRT dose.

So after even a few years your natural test production is toast, there is no other way. If this was the case, why don't we cycle for a year at a time? < Cause recovery sucks

After my next blood work comes in, I'll go from there. My numbers were fair at best before I started my 2nd cycle.

If I start, there is no coming off. With the exception of a health complication. . . It's not that expensive, but I guess it depends to who. Shit, I know I can't afford GH.