Things I Learned From My Idiot GP Today.

[m_donnelly]

I had a follow-up with my GP today (unrelated to current TRT) and here's what I found out:

1. "Testosterone converts to steroids which makes you feel better in the short term".
2. My change in mood, tender nipples and hot flashes are due to my pituitary acting up and has nothing to do with estrogen. Bear in mind that I didn't say anything about estrogen, just that I had taken DIM and explained what DIM is..
3. He has patients in testosterone but would never prescribe it to me because my symptoms (elvevated estrogen) are "strange for hormone treatment".
4. Oh, and the big shocker: TESTOSTERONE IS A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE? No shit? Really?

Fvcking idiot.

[powerlifterty16]

I had a follow-up with my GP today (unrelated to current TRT) and here's what I found out:

1. "Testosterone converts to steroids which makes you feel better in the short term".
2. My change in mood, tender nipples and hot flashes are due to my pituitary acting up and has nothing to do with estrogen. Bear in mind that I didn't say anything about estrogen, just that I had taken DIM and explained what DIM is..
3. He has patients in testosterone but would never prescribe it to me because my symptoms (elvevated estrogen) are "strange for hormone treatment".
4. Oh, and the big shocker: TESTOSTERONE IS A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE? No shit? Really?

Fvcking idiot.

did u pretend not to know ur stuff or did u let em have it

[Low Testosterone]

did u pretend not to know ur stuff or did u let em have it

Letting a doctor "have it" is a sure fire way to make TRT very difficult for you in the future. Regardless of how smart you are, this is not a good idea. When you start showing up at other doctors offices and your chart says you're an asshole, you're going to have a hard time finding any doctor that takes you serious.

Do not be a know it all when you visit the doctor. There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being versed on the topic at hand, but no doctor wants you to walk into their office and tell them how to do their job any more than you want them to walk into yours and do the same.

[powerlifterty16]

Letting a doctor "have it" is a sure fire way to make TRT very difficult for you in the future. Regardless of how smart you are, this is not a good idea. When you start showing up at other doctors offices and your chart says you're an asshole, you're going to have a hard time finding any doctor that takes you serious.

Do not be a know it all when you visit the doctor. There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being versed on the topic at hand, but no doctor wants you to walk into their office and tell them how to do their job any more than you want them to walk into yours and do the same.

i was only asking bc donnely told me that he plays a passive role at the drs offices typically. i was wondering if this time were the same after hearing his frustrations.

[powerlifterty16]

Letting a doctor "have it" is a sure fire way to make TRT very difficult for you in the future. Regardless of how smart you are, this is not a good idea. When you start showing up at other doctors offices and your chart says you're an asshole, you're going to have a hard time finding any doctor that takes you serious.

Do not be a know it all when you visit the doctor. There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being versed on the topic at hand, but no doctor wants you to walk into their office and tell them how to do their job any more than you want them to walk into yours and do the same.

you are right, drs dont like patients who know it all...drs hate when i contradict them..sigh

[m_donnelly]

No, I just sat back and let him lecture. He got really bitchy when he asked if I was taking anything else and I told him I was using DIM and zinc to lower estrogen levels. He started in and I ignored him. He wants to do an MRI of my pituitary gland to make sure it's not "abnormal" even though all of my BW contradicts this theory. My cortisol, thyroid, (etc) are all completely kosher but my LH, FSH, serum test and free test are all very low. I was very honest about my steroid use in the past so I just don't get it.

This is the first time I've seen him since starting TRT and I should have expected it to go this way. I asked him to take over my psychiatric medication management this last spring and he treated me like a fvcking junkie when I told him I was on klonopin.

[Rusty11]

Letting a doctor "have it" is a sure fire way to make TRT very difficult for you in the future. Regardless of how smart you are, this is not a good idea. When you start showing up at other doctors offices and your chart says you're an asshole, you're going to have a hard time finding any doctor that takes you serious.

Do not be a know it all when you visit the doctor. There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being versed on the topic at hand, but no doctor wants you to walk into their office and tell them how to do their job any more than you want them to walk into yours and do the same.

Great comment! I just shake my head each time I read about someone letting their dr. have it. Drs. Know more about medicine and the body than these know-it-alls. Sure, some may not be familiar with trt best practices, but getting in their face is just stupid.

[m_donnelly]

Trust me, I chewed my tongue off today. Especially when it became clear that he didnt understand the relationship between testosterone and estrogen. Telling me that he has patients on test but wouldn't treat me with it (I didn't even ask, I have four months worth left) because my case was "abnormal" really set me off.

And like I said, I wasn't even in there for a TRT discussion.

[Rusty11]

I know exactly how you feel. Used to bite my tongue til it bled
I'd make my case then move on.

[kelkel]

Letting a doctor "have it" is a sure fire way to make TRT very difficult for you in the future. Regardless of how smart you are, this is not a good idea. When you start showing up at other doctors offices and your chart says you're an asshole, you're going to have a hard time finding any doctor that takes you serious.

Do not be a know it all when you visit the doctor. There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being versed on the topic at hand, but no doctor wants you to walk into their office and tell them how to do their job any more than you want them to walk into yours and do the same.

Mutual respect has to be developed. It goes both ways.

[powerlifterty16]

Great comment! I just shake my head each time I read about someone letting their dr. have it. Drs. Know more about medicine and the body than these know-it-alls. Sure, some may not be familiar with trt best practices, but getting in their face is just stupid.

no reason to attack me, or any of the other frustrated members here, i doubt drs know more than me..about this stuff unless it;s shippen, or dr marc gordon....but most..no they dont

i am not even aggressive at doc's appts i usually just sit there defeated, although im at the point where it's bordering on malpractice not to treat me, as i have so many low t labs and so many tests and there is no cause.

[Rusty11]

It's STUPID to argue with a Dr.
That's all I'm saying.

[kelkel]

It's STUPID to argue with a Dr.
That's all I'm saying.

Argue yes. Have an intelligent different opinion when a point is ambiguous, no. If the relationship degrades to an argument it's time to part ways.

[Rusty11]

Yes. You got to "know when to fold 'em".

[m_donnelly]

Argue yes. Have an intelligent different opinion when a point is ambiguous, no. If the relationship degrades to an argument it's time to part ways.

There wasnt going to be any discussion with him. In fact, I doubt there will be any discussion with him of any kind. He likes to hear himself speak and gets very pedantic. I'm not even going to have him manage my other meds at this point. I am going in for the MRI he scheduled though. I'm going to walk into my endo appointment in a month with all of my bases covered. This way, I'll be able to go into any endo's office with BW and an MRI showing I don't have pituitary damage.

My situation is cut and dry. I was started on a dose of test that was wayyy too high. I'm carrying a lot of body fat and I started having estrogen issues after a month of treatment.

[ctenosaura]

Just has a visit with my GP yesterday to get my prescription dosage upped and told him I have been taking more than he prescribed and took HCG. He got a little miffed and proceeded to lecture me. I sat quietly and just nodded. After he wrote a new prescription for the higher amount I requested. I showed him my Private MD bloodwork results (which bugged him too)so he could see that even on my higher dosage all my levels were great. I guarantee if I argued with him, I would not get what I wanted. My docs a very good doc and very knowledgeable (a little "House-ish"), he just isn't a full blown TRT guy. But if I had any other type of medical condition, I'd want him working on me

[bass]

I don't mind when a doc admits lack of knowledge, but when he/she starts giving me false information I will correct them, I will not let them mess with my health. but like others noted you have to be respectful and be smart about it. And if you don't feel comfortable with your doc then find a new one fast!

[asiandudexxx]

no reason to attack me, or any of the other frustrated members here, i doubt drs know more than me..about this stuff unless it;s shippen, or dr marc gordon....but most..no they dont

i am not even aggressive at doc's appts i usually just sit there defeated, although im at the point where it's bordering on malpractice not to treat me, as i have so many low t labs and so many tests and there is no cause.

I felt similarly in the beginning. I hope you can find your answer soon.

I'm a younger guy and my desperate need to be treated (read: impatience) got the better of me. Many of the doctors put up with me only because I try to keep emotion out of it and stick to facts. Like Kel said, intelligent back and forth.

They must have hated me though. In the beginning I literally brought a stack of peer reviewed papers to every appointment just to make sure they knew I wasn't just "reading everything on the internet".

[Brazensol]

Letting a doctor "have it" is a sure fire way to make TRT very difficult for you in the future. Regardless of how smart you are, this is not a good idea. When you start showing up at other doctors offices and your chart says you're an asshole, you're going to have a hard time finding any doctor that takes you serious.

Do not be a know it all when you visit the doctor. There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being versed on the topic at hand, but no doctor wants you to walk into their office and tell them how to do their job any more than you want them to walk into yours and do the same.

While what you say is true I knew how to do my job!

[Brazensol]

One of my first doc's told me injectable test cyp caused liver cancer. When I asked about HCG he said to stay as far away from that stuff as possible. How do you talk to someone like that? He was the worst but so far (after four docs) I can't say any of them have yet to impress me. At all. At least my current one will let me do the injections myself. The others would not.

Problem is (at least one of the big ones) they are college educated and me, well, I'm just a high school graduate. What could I possibly know?

[phaedo]

[...] i doubt drs know more than me..about this stuff [...]

If I may caution you, from what is apparently a cocksure remark, is that merely regurgitating anecdotal facts does not constitute "knowledge," nor does a pronouncement of your own greater intelligence make you any wiser. Assuming a haughty position of certainty is only illusory superiority. I'm not saying you're a big dummy, powerlifterty16, but what I am trying to say is that "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" [this is known as the Dunning-Kruger effect].

For the most part, doctor's are good people, and pretty smart too! I'm not saying they're the brightest, or even the best, but don't discount a doctor -- or anyone, for that matter -- simply because they do not know. A physician unfamiliar with the appropriate understanding and correct treatment of testosterone-replacement-therapy is not intently violating the Hippocratic Oath, for I'm sure most medical professionals truly believe in "keeping [patients] from harm and injustice." But as I'm sure everyone here can agree, there is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

As kelkel and others have alluded too above, it is better to engage in intelligent discourse with your physician, presenting the facts in context and holding your doctor accountable to the empirical evidence available. A good physician-patient relationship is the mutual detection, diagnosis, and treatment of your ailment(s). Of course, if your physician refuses to part from their trenchant falsities, than you as the patient have the right to move on. It's their loss, not yours.

The words of 20th century philosopher Bertrand Russell bears repeating sometimes: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts."

[jay adams]

fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts."

This is great! Wiser men are also more cautious.

[Ryanmcd]

My 1st doc I even went to just a GP wrote me a script the 2nd time I went to him when he got my bloodwork back, but I did not say ANYTHING not about zinc not shit just I was sleeping all the time and never had energy NOTHING else. I think when people show up and talk about "Doc I am taking this to lower that or this to do that" well then you start off SELF TREATING and its the wrong way to start.

But people here seem to do the same shit over and over and spend YEARS teaching docs what to do and never get any place with them.

Want to get a script? Play the game and DO NOT SAY SHIT IT's the DOCTORS job to trouble shoot your issues NOT you, or you can sit at home and read forums all day and bitch about how much doctors such.

I am in IT and have been for 15+ years, when someone calls me and tells me with they did to fix the issue I tell them to finish the job they already started, if they tell me what I need to do to fix it I tell them I don't need that business. The best clients are the ones that LISTEN to the person they are paying for advice.

[m_donnelly]

My 1st doc I even went to just a GP wrote me a script the 2nd time I went to him when he got my bloodwork back, but I did not say ANYTHING not about zinc not shit just I was sleeping all the time and never had energy NOTHING else. I think when people show up and talk about "Doc I am taking this to lower that or this to do that" well then you start off SELF TREATING and its the wrong way to start.

But people here seem to do the same shit over and over and spend YEARS teaching docs what to do and never get any place with them.

Want to get a script? Play the game and DO NOT SAY SHIT IT's the DOCTORS job to trouble shoot your issues NOT you, or you can sit at home and read forums all day and bitch about how much doctors such.

I am in IT and have been for 15+ years, when someone calls me and tells me with they did to fix the issue I tell them to finish the job they already started, if they tell me what I need to do to fix it I tell them I don't need that business. The best clients are the ones that LISTEN to the person they are paying for advice.

I wouldn't have said anything to him about the DIM and zinc but he asked if I was taking supplements. I also wouldn't have told him what I was using it for if he hadn't asked. I really only opened my mouth because I thought he was going to run BW today but he opted not to. I figured he should know that I was taking something that might affect the BW.

[Ryanmcd]

I wouldn't have said anything to him about the DIM and zinc but he asked if I was taking supplements. I also wouldn't have told him what I was using it for if he hadn't asked. I really only opened my mouth because I thought he was going to run BW today but he opted not to. I figured he should know that I was taking something that might affect the BW.

I would stop everything and then go someplace else so he has a real baseline, as soon as you said why he probably did not want to deal with it, like taking a car into the dealer that you already tried to fix having no idea.

[Rusty11]

I wouldn't have said anything to him about the DIM and zinc but he asked if I was taking supplements. I also wouldn't have told him what I was using it for if he hadn't asked. I really only opened my mouth because I thought he was going to run BW today but he opted not to. I figured he should know that I was taking something that might affect the BW.

Hey...you were truthful with him. That's the best path for a sucessful long term dr./pt relationship. I had to explain the purpose of DIM to my dr., as well.

[kelkel]

If I may caution you, from what is apparently a cocksure remark, is that merely regurgitating anecdotal facts does not constitute "knowledge," nor does a pronouncement of your own greater intelligence make you any wiser. Assuming a haughty position of certainty is only illusory superiority. I'm not saying you're a big dummy, powerlifterty16, but what I am trying to say is that "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" [this is known as the Dunning-Kruger effect].

For the most part, doctor's are good people, and pretty smart too! I'm not saying they're the brightest, or even the best, but don't discount a doctor -- or anyone, for that matter -- simply because they do not know. A physician unfamiliar with the appropriate understanding and correct treatment of testosterone-replacement-therapy is not intently violating the Hippocratic Oath, for I'm sure most medical professionals truly believe in "keeping [patients] from harm and injustice." But as I'm sure everyone here can agree, there is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

As kelkel and others have alluded too above, it is better to engage in intelligent discourse with your physician, presenting the facts in context and holding your doctor accountable to the empirical evidence available. A good physician-patient relationship is the mutual detection, diagnosis, and treatment of your ailment(s). Of course, if your physician refuses to part from their trenchant falsities, than you as the patient have the right to move on. It's their loss, not yours.

The words of 20th century philosopher Bertrand Russell bears repeating sometimes: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts."

Brings to mind Occams Razor.....

[Megalodon6]

Its very frustrating trying to find the right doc but when you finally do it was all worth it

[m_donnelly]

Well, that doc will probably turn out to be the new (and first endo) I'll be seeing in a month. Both my GP and shrink have told me I need to stop injections until I see him so we can get a "baseline". I thought that is what the first fvcking test was... So, I shut myself down over the last six weeks, my estrogen has been all over place, and I'm just basically screwed for four weeks.

But, on the flip side, that means my BW is going to come back totally fvcked and the endo will have to help out some how.

[Ryanmcd]

Well, that doc will probably turn out to be the new (and first endo) I'll be seeing in a month. Both my GP and shrink have told me I need to stop injections until I see him so we can get a "baseline". I thought that is what the first fvcking test was... So, I shut myself down over the last six weeks, my estrogen has been all over place, and I'm just basically screwed for four weeks.

But, on the flip side, that means my BW is going to come back totally fvcked and the endo will have to help out some how.

Yep it sucks and is total shit I know but you have to play the game and once you get setup it's a once in a lifetime thing because once on if you get a new doc he can see you had it scripted before so it's a non-issue.

[powerlifterty16]

Well, that doc will probably turn out to be the new (and first endo) I'll be seeing in a month. Both my GP and shrink have told me I need to stop injections until I see him so we can get a "baseline". I thought that is what the first fvcking test was... So, I shut myself down over the last six weeks, my estrogen has been all over place, and I'm just basically screwed for four weeks.

But, on the flip side, that means my BW is going to come back totally fvcked and the endo will have to help out some how.

sad truth is the endo doesnt have to help you...and even if she wanted, chances are she wont know how to.
you should research a good urologist, call them and ask if they do hcg and estradiol

[m_donnelly]

Yep it sucks and is total shit I know but you have to play the game and once you get setup it's a once in a lifetime thing because once on if you get a new doc he can see you had it scripted before so it's a non-issue.

Yeah, I already have an RX for test and AT LEAST four months worth left. I had a great first month of TRT but my estrogen levels spiked. So, both docs (shrink and GP) just told me to stop injecting until I see this endo. I explained to them both that I was afraid of crashing but I was just blown off. But, I'll walk into this appointment with a script for test, two blood tests showing extremely low t, and an MRI of my pituitary gland.

[chi]

Letting a doctor "have it" is a sure fire way to make TRT very difficult for you in the future. Regardless of how smart you are, this is not a good idea. When you start showing up at other doctors offices and your chart says you're an asshole, you're going to have a hard time finding any doctor that takes you serious.

Do not be a know it all when you visit the doctor. There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being versed on the topic at hand, but no doctor wants you to walk into their office and tell them how to do their job any more than you want them to walk into yours and do the same.

So it is true?! I knew that Seinfeld episode with elaine had some form of truth!!!!!!!