Bass's BW as of 10/9/2013

everything else looks fine. this is based on 70mgs twice a week two spot injection. also like to note I had to heat the oil in boiling water, I am not going to explain the reason but just to note that heating the oil seem to have effected the potency. this BW is done on the same vial I did my last BW.

Protocol,
test, 70mgs twice a week SQ, two spot injection
hCG, 350 twice a week
AI, 0.25 once a week (I raised this because I increased my test dose from 60mgs twice a week to 70mgs twice a week, but will drop it completely)

Supplements,
Austinite's Fat Loss Stack
Fish oil
L-Arginine and citrulline
Zinc
NAC
Cholestoff (don't waste your money, my lipids were better prior to using it)

Meds,
CIA, 6mgs ed
Mobic (NSAIDs) 15mgs ed

Blood Test,
Testosterone, Serum 694 348-1197 ng/dL (down from last BW, was 828 based on 60mgs twice a week)
Testosterone, Free 29.15 5.00-21.00 ng/dL (down from last BW, was 38.92 based on 60mgs twice a week)
Estradiol, Sensitive 14 3-70 pg/mL (up from last BW, was 13)

Thyroid
TSH 3.330 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL (up from last BW, was 2.17)
Thyroxine (T4) 6.9 4.5-12.0 ug/dL (down from last BW, was 7.5)
T3 Uptake 34 24-39 % (down from last BW, was 36)
Free Thyroxine Index 2.3 1.2-4.9 (down from last BW, was 2.7)

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.9 0.0-4.0 ng/mL (stayed the same)

conclusion, I believe boiling the test vial effected the potency.

That's a big statement, please share WHY you think boiling the test vial lowers potency? Why do you continue Subq when your E2 remains so low, why not bump it up to a more healthy level? Do you think that maybe the two spot injection has anything to do with it, or you've maybe gotten leaner or fatter? Could be a number of things.

that's the only conclusion I can think of regarding potency! nothing else changed except for heating the vial. so my conclusion is based on that assumption. your second question, again, its not that I got leaner or fatter, simply the testosterone lost potency. as far as E2 I will simply come off AI completely, I only started the 0.25 because I increased my test dose from 120 mgs ew to 140 mgs ew.

Fair enough. It would be interesting if that is indeed the case (heating the vial). I'm assuming then that you're going to stop heating it? Your next BW would be interesting to see if it had an effect.

I came off of my Ai when I was down to 10. My Ai dose is now 1mg every 8 weeks. That's right, I take 1mg once every two months - it creeps up that slowly! I now hover between 25-30.

How was your Hemoglobin? I know from your posts that it's high.

I haven't donated in almost 3.5 months and its all in healthy range, but i'll donate anyway just to get my RBC in better rang. as for heating the vial I'll be on a new vial by the time I do my next BW. we'll see.

RBC 5.71 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 15.1 12.6-17.7 g/dL
Hematocrit 47.3 37.5-51.0 %

bass, did u buy cholestoff plus or just cholestoff? my lipids went down a few points within a few weeks,but nothing significant.

it was cholestoff plus from Costco, to be honest my HDL gotten worse while on cholestoff plus. I am learning that high cholesterol is not the problem, simple sugars causes cholesterol build up and it doesn't matter weather you have high or low cholesterol.

yeah my hdl went down too, but ldl dropped slightly....my cholesterol is still trash, i eat too much sugars bc my appetite sucks and id waste away otherwise.

I'm curious does everyone sub q have lower total test scores than similar mg im? 60 mg im tes t cyp twice a week gets me to 1085. Although my free isn't as high as yours.

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Originally Posted by jasondd1

I'm curious does everyone sub q have lower total test scores than similar mg im? 60 mg im tes t cyp twice a week gets me to 1085. Although my free isn't as high as yours.

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bass was at 828 sub q prior to heating the test cyp

Power is correct, and that's for the same vial too!

I dunno, it doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't people who brew their own test be ruining it when they autoclave it if what you are saying is true? I mean you put the thing in a pressure cooker that gets over 250 degrees for 45 minutes, if you are boiling yours it is only getting to what 188 degrees? I can't remember. Not to mention when mixing I run mine on a hot plate stirrer for over an hour. Maybe that is why my test prop seems to not do anything? I dunno it doesn't make much sense, because a lot of people autoclave on this board.

^^^ yes good points, but how do we know what heating it the second time do?! and what other explanation can we come up with when the only difference is that I heated the test? and not to forget I increased my dose and got less! I've done everything identical with the exception of heating the test. again I am not saying this is a definite cause, its only my conclusion based on this difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bass

^^^ yes good points, but how do we know what heating it the second time do?! and what other explanation can we come up with when the only difference is that I heated the test? and not to forget I increased my dose and got less! I've done everything identical with the exception of heating the test. again I am not saying this is a definite cause, its only my conclusion based on this difference.

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I dunno but I want to know the answer, because if you are right I'm brewing wrong lol.

Just trying to think of other factors that could be involved, but I just don't know. I've had blood results come back quite a bit different with the same dose. I dunno if I was measuring wrong or what. Or what if you just flat out didn't absorb it as well, or something to do with ai making your test lower lol. Shots in the dark I know.

bass, don't some people get worse results when they increased their test? less is more is what YOU and kel always say!
btw what made you increase the dose? 828 is solid i doubt you were trying a 20 mg more per week blast or it was for muscle.

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Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

bass, don't some people get worse results when they increased their test? less is more is what YOU and kel always say!
btw what made you increase the dose? 828 is solid i doubt you were trying a 20 mg more per week blast or it was for muscle.

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less is more is not meant if you inject less you levels will go higher, it means get the TRT benefits but with less side effects. I wasn't recovering well, so I though if increase a little that might help. remember TRT is not just about numbers, its also how you feel.

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Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

I dunno but I want to know the answer, because if you are right I'm brewing wrong lol.

Just trying to think of other factors that could be involved, but I just don't know. I've had blood results come back quite a bit different with the same dose. I dunno if I was measuring wrong or what. Or what if you just flat out didn't absorb it as well, or something to do with ai making your test lower lol. Shots in the dark I know.

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I can't really explain it, its either the test is losing potency due to shelf life or from heating it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bass

less is more is not meant if you inject less you levels will go higher, it means get the TRT benefits but with less side effects. I wasn't recovering well, so I though if increase a little that might help. remember TRT is not just about numbers, its also how you feel.

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yeah but ive seen guys on here say they have had better labs doing less :p

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Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

yeah but ive seen guys on here say they have had better labs doing less :p

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True to a point, if your levels are 2,000 all the time you will prob need a AI "more meds" then you have other issues at least I do with feeling "plugged in" all the time and on edge. Everyone is different to be honest.

I know when I am low due to sex drive and if I need a nap, when I did sub Q 120 a week I had a level of around 3xx and was napping and before I took my bloodwork I told my doc I was under 500 because of the naps, my sweet spot is 800-1200 and after 15+ labs I can guess my lvls on how I feel and I get it pretty close now. I don't think you can say everyone is going to feel best at this number, it's a trial and error thing and if you have a good doc you can try a higher on the range and lower and then see how you feel better. The issue is with everyone thinking more is better so they go way the hell up on test and then TELL themselves they feel better.

i sometimes wonder if low t isnt my problem...hcg isnt making me feel better, and ieven got a cold,so still have a shitty immune system bro.

See another point is this. Bass, you said you werent recovering well. Obviously that means because of lifting. Now some dudes don't lift and don't need to recover so they might feel good at your level. Hrt is soooo hard because its so individual. I used to think napping meant I was low as well. WRONG I'm just tired from work! I'm at 1427 test and 55 free and I still need a godamn nap!

that's why I am on TRT, is to support my lifestyle, so little adjustments are necessary.

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Originally Posted by dreadnok89

See another point is this. Bass, you said you werent recovering well. Obviously that means because of lifting. Now some dudes don't lift and don't need to recover so they might feel good at your level. Hrt is soooo hard because its so individual. I used to think napping meant I was low as well. WRONG I'm just tired from work! I'm at 1427 test and 55 free and I still need a godamn nap!

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if you are taking naps at that high of a lvl something else is off, @ 1200+ I cant sleep because I feel wired all the time. Also I will say on the Gel vs shots a higher lvl on the gels = more energy then the shots did, maybe the DHT or whatever as I was 3x the top of DHT on the gels at a 800 test lvl.

I also think sleep and food is 80% of this and the test is about 20%, as if I eat like shit and sleep 4 hours a night I can still feel like crap, it's a whole "How is your life" kinda thing I feel.

Bass is your natty totally shut down? I mean, do you think it is possible that at the lower dose your boys were still kicking in a little? And the slightly higher dose might have shut down or decreased your natty? Just grasping at straws here because I never heard of boiling causing degradation. Was the vial just suspended in boiling water with a needle to vent? No chance the oil reached its burning point, whatever that may be?

I am totally shutdown, been on TRT for almost 3 years. again I am just speculating and assuming that heating it the second time may have done something to it. I don't know what else I can point to except the only thing I did differently, which is heating the oil.

and yes I boiled the water and placed the vial in, turn the stove off and let it sit for 15-30 minutes or so. can't remember how long exactly but it was in there for quite a while.

Guys all good points/debate, but remember we're looking at one test at one point in time. You can eat a bacon double cheeseburger with mayo and test cholesterol and actually be lower than the week earlier when eating properly. It's totally possible but doesn't mean the burger was "good" for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

if you are taking naps at that high of a lvl something else is off, @ 1200+ I cant sleep because I feel wired all the time. Also I will say on the Gel vs shots a higher lvl on the gels = more energy then the shots did, maybe the DHT or whatever as I was 3x the top of DHT on the gels at a 800 test lvl.

I also think sleep and food is 80% of this and the test is about 20%, as if I eat like shit and sleep 4 hours a night I can still feel like crap, it's a whole "How is your life" kinda thing I feel.

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Sorry for hijacking your thread bass. I agree with you. I like exercising to much. Without hrt I couldn't do it. It made me sick to do anything physical. However, I only get 5 to 6 hours a note sleep and I do physical labor. The tired I feel now is a good tired And a NAp for 15 to 20 minutes gives me great energy to hit the gym at night. I did 40 reps of 275 on flat bench the other night. No way could I do that with my previous lifestyle without hrt. I will always love naps haha

one thing I can say about the naps, they work!

On the weekends with full sleep I never need a nap. It has to be work related!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dreadnok89

Sorry for hijacking your thread bass. I agree with you. I like exercising to much. Without hrt I couldn't do it. It made me sick to do anything physical. However, I only get 5 to 6 hours a note sleep and I do physical labor. The tired I feel now is a good tired And a NAp for 15 to 20 minutes gives me great energy to hit the gym at night. I did 40 reps of 275 on flat bench the other night. No way could I do that with my previous lifestyle without hrt. I will always love naps haha

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in one set???

No 4 sets of 10. Still pretty godamn good for me

Trying to do more research on this. Talking to some others about brewing, and they recommend low heat and long stir, so I assume there might be some kind of merit to this. I might find something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

Trying to do more research on this. Talking to some others about brewing, and they recommend low heat and long stir, so I assume there might be some kind of merit to this. I might find something.

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I look forward to your findings.

Bass, forgive me if I'm a little under informed. Do you heat your test to make it easier to pin sub q?

No, I heated it because I thought it was contaminated, and the heat would kill any bacteria, I believe it worked. I posted a thread about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dreadnok89

No 4 sets of 10. Still pretty godamn good for me

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I'd say that's pretty good period...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bass

No, I heated it because I thought it was contaminated, and the heat would kill any bacteria, I believe it worked. I posted a thread about it.

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Got it. Hope the next one is better.