Low-t & trying to avoid trt

[FRITZ BLITZ]

PROBLEM-bw showed low t. my original symptom i was seeking help for was severe anxiety, low energy, depression symptoms. I found a good dr that finally thought it was a hormone imbalance. My dr told me to supp DHE 500mg, zink 100mg, vit d 5000iu for three months. If that didnt raise my T levels than i would go on TRT. Im 30 and dont want to be stuck with that for the rest of my life, not to mention that I dont have insurence so I wouldnt be able to afford it. I would like to try some naty supps and vits along with what my dr suggested that will jump start my natural test production especially my free test, even if I can just prolong TRT for 5-10 years.

MY BACKGROUND-Im 30years, 6'4, 220lbs. i used to work out hardcore, got up to 235lbs cut. now i barely have the energy to do lil body resistance workouts ex pushups, dips ect. I took mdrol once 4-5 years ago with proper pct(thanks to this site).I had BW done a few months after pct and approx numbers came back
-total t high 1000
-free t around 28
-thyroid in mid range
-estro in mid high range of normal male
For the last few years i have been under EXTREME stress, legal probs, job loss, injuries, just about worst case scenerio. so i think my adrenals might be shot, but i dont know if that has a factor.

BW FROM 9/20/13 -(forgive me if my scale isnt perfect cuz i am missing a page and had originally got the results over the phone and cant understand some stuff) BW key points:
-total T 347 (250-1100)
-free T 7.6 (9-30)my biggest concern
-LH 3.1 (= 70 year man)
-FSH 2.9 (1.4-18.1)
-DHEA 328 (300-600)
-estro E2? (mid range male norm)
-cortizol 11.5 (3.1-16.5)
(thyroid)
-TSH 1.7 (0.510-6.27)
-T4 free 0.77 (0.89-1.76)
-T3 free 3.28 (2.3-4.2)
-zink almost zero
-vit d almost zero
-lypid panel is perfect
Other than those numbers, the other tons of messurments came back almost perfect.

MY DIET AND SUPPS-I have a decent diet. I eat mostly lean meat,fish,and good amount of green veggys, medium amount of healthy carbs and some fast food when i dont have a choice. Vitamins:
-dhe 500mg \
-epa 450mg -together
-vit e 50mg /
-vit d 5000iu(was very depleated)
-vit c 2000mg (for adrenal support)
-vit b complex tons of mg
-magnesium 400mg
-zink 100mg
-now foods liver detox

I have read tons of threads on this site on HRT as well as test boosters as well as doing tons of my own reserch in books and other sites.
Keep in mind my ideas for supps are for balancing my hormonal axis as well as boosting my t to normal ranges(not trying to jack up my T to insane levels) that being said here is my idea based on my BW, reserch and professional advice. let me know if im adding redundant or unneeded supps I want to save as much $$ as possible and keep it as simple as possible.

MY SUPPLEMENT REGIMENT IDEA:
-Tongkat Ali 1:200 400mg (free T booster)
-Tribulus 90% siponons 2000mg (T support/energy)
-DHEA 50mg (T booster/hormonal axis balance/adrenal)
????????? Is it really important that I add Pregnenolone
to DHEA (if so than Pregnenolone 50mg)
-DIM 100mg (estro blocker for mainly DHEA)
-DHA/EPA 500mg/250mg (hormonal axis balance ect.)
-ZMA 800mg (1 pill instead of Zink,Mag,Vit B all together)
-Vit D 5000iu (hormonal axis balance ect.)
-Vit C 2000mg (adrenal support ect.)
-Protein w Amino complex (overall health)
-Creatine (if I can get back to lots of gym time)

Other Supps I'm Debating For T support but only if its a great idea, I want to keep simple and save $$$:
-Pregnenolone
-hcg
-DAA
-clomid (not as anti-estro but i read it can boosts or stabalizes T levels, maybe)
?????? Are there any other supps proven to either free up binded T or just boost free T other than nettle root, I put nettle in a tea I make

I'm ordering supps soon so I need to refine my T support regiment. Please dont just nock any supps unless you have a better idea. THANKS

[Novice489]

i have been under EXTREME stress, legal probs, job loss, injuries, just about worst case scenerio. so i think my adrenals might be shot, but i dont know if that has a factor.

This is big. I'm going to take a neuropsychology approach so bare with me.

During high levels of chronic stress (either physical or psychological) the body is far more focused on just maintaining than having you thrive. What does the body consider thriving? Reproduction, mating, libido, aggressive or competitive behavior. Your body says "Dude you're stressed as shit things must be going really bad don't worry about sex or reproducing." So the brain reduces the level of hormones produced (LH and FSH) your Test levels fall sperm production slows down.

Can I say your problem is chronic stress related? Nope, but just something to consider. A good book on the effects of stress on the human body is Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" by Robert Maurice Sapolsky a neuroendocrinologist at Stanford University.

[kelkel]

DHEA and Preg are great. Be sure to get micronized products. Slow Release Micro are even better. Add one, add the other. Same pathways.
D supps are awesome. Just re-test to see how you're doing.
You don't need DIM for dhea. Dhea can increase E but only marginally. With your T level low you really don't need it right now.
Creatine = awesome stuff. Read about it on examine.com
Really need LH/FSH to evaluate.
Thyroid low? As in high TSH-hypothyroid? If so that in and of itself can cause low T. Same as many other things can.

You need to fill in the blanks with your blood work.

HCG . No, imho. Yes, it will stimulate test production, assuming your not primary hypo, but it will also suppress your own LH production.
Clomid / Nolva are SERMS and can/will stimulate LH production at the pituitary if not secondary. Again, only temporary.

Very insightful and relevant post by Aux.

[FRITZ BLITZ]

Thanks kelkel and aux!

Your body says "Dude you're stressed as shit things must be going really bad don't worry about sex or reproducing." So the brain reduces the level of hormones produced (LH and FSH) your Test levels fall sperm production slows down.

aux thanks for the book idea ill check it out. Have you seen any threads on something on this topic?

HCG . No, imho. Yes, it will stimulate test production, assuming your not primary hypo, but it will also suppress your own LH production.
Clomid / Nolva are SERMS and can/will stimulate LH production at the pituitary if not secondary. Again, only temporary.

kelkel...so no on hcg and no DIM, but im just wondering if I dont want to add DIM why would I consider a SERM? is it because a SERM is selective and DIM is not? Also can I just take the DHEA or is Preg that important to add?

[Metalject]

A high fat diet along with plenty of sleep and the supplements you're taking will make a difference. Enough of a difference? Hard to say but they'll help. And stay away from alcohol.

[Novice489]

aux thanks for the book idea ill check it out. Have you seen any threads on something on this topic?

If you find any please PM them to me. I haven't had much time to poke around the forums however I'm very interested in psycho-endocrinology.

[kelkel]

kelkel...so no on hcg and no DIM, but im just wondering if I dont want to add DIM why would I consider a SERM? is it because a SERM is selective and DIM is not? Also can I just take the DHEA or is Preg that important to add?

Why do you feel you even need Estrogen control now? First you need a sensitive E2 assay to see exactly where you are. Anything else is not geared toward males. DIM helps to metabolize estrogen. I don't see you having an issue now so why take it? SERMS are site specific E blockers and can stimulate LH production. If considering attempting to stimulate LH production via a serm like Nolva, fine.

[dreadnok89]

A high fat diet along with plenty of sleep and the supplements you're taking will make a difference. Enough of a difference? Hard to say but they'll help. And stay away from alcohol.

Please be specific for types of fat, I'd like to know !

[FRITZ BLITZ]

Really need LH/FSH to evaluate.
Thyroid low? As in high TSH-hypothyroid? If so that in and of itself can cause low T.

-total T 347 (250-1100)
-free T 7.6 (9-30 )my biggest concern
-LH 3.1 (= 70 year man)
-FSH 2.9 (1.4-18.1)
-DHEA 328 (300-600)
-estro E2? (mid range male norm)
-cortizol 11.5 (3.1-16.5)
(thyroid)
-TSH 1.7 (0.510-6.27)
-T4 free 0.77 (0.89-1.76)
-T3 free 3.28 (2.3-4.2)

[FRITZ BLITZ]

Any more info, thoughts? Accurate BW ^^^^^^

[kelkel]

Well, the new supplement regimen deserves some time. Agree with Metal there. Other than that, nothing is jumping out as an issue with the BW your showing. Make the effort with lifestyle and supplementation and re-test in a few months. I'd hate to see you jump on TRT if you don't have to.