Raising E2 without going too high

[Lockout888]

I just got my latest BW back:

Current protocol (last 2 months): Test Cyp 150mg 1x week, HCG 250iu 3x week, Anastrozole .25mg day after T injection and .25mg 3 days after T injection.
Previous Labs (9/4/13) 7 days after test injection:
Total Test = 586 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 44.3 (7.6-42.6)

New Labs (10/18/13) 43 hours after test injection:
Total Test = 729 (348-1197)
Estradiol = 16.6 (7.6-42.6)

Looks like I need to stop that 2nd dose of Anastrozole.

What would be a good plan to get E2 back in the 20-30 range? Skip Anastrozole for a week then go back to .25mg per week?

[J DIESEL3]

I don't believe you are getting the sensitive estradiol test.The range on the sensitive is 3-70.

[bass]

^^^ J is correct. hard to make an adjustment!

[dreadnok89]

Plus taking all that stuff and being 729 isn'tto good either

[Lockout888]

I don't believe you are getting the sensitive estradiol test.The range on the sensitive is 3-70.

I have to pay for the tests out of my pocket, and the Private MD labs panel for $50 includes the standard test. All my previous labs have been with the standard test for apples-to-apples comparison, and I don't see paying another $69 for the sensitive test when LEF says this about it:

Estradiol, Sensitive

Item Catalog Number: LC140244

This test is generally NOT suggested over the regular estradiol test (LC004515).

The only difference between this test and the regular estradiol test (offered in Life Extension panels) is better detection at the lower limits of the range. For example, the lower end of the range for estradiol is 7.6 pg/mL while the lower limit for the sensitive estradiol is 3 pg/mL. This test does not provide a more accurate result at normal ranges, it is only more accurate at very low levels of estradiol.

Since Life Extension advocates higher levels of hormones, it would be very rare to use this test for its greater sensitivity at the low end of the range. Remember that men also need a certain level of estrogen (estradiol) and that studies are showing that if the estradiol level for a man is below the 18-20 pg/mL range there is increased risk for osteoporosis.

[PJS19]

Im very interested to see what some of the vets say about that quote from LEF regarding sensitive vs regular test.

Someone stated the sensitive test is 3-70 range. My tests through quest diagnostics have been <29 being the range (ultrasensitive test)

Anyone have any idea why that is?

[Lockout888]

What would be a good plan to get E2 back in the 20-30 range? Skip Anastrozole for a week then go back to .25mg per week?

Anyone?

[jomamma007]

Im very interested to see what some of the vets say about that quote from LEF regarding sensitive vs regular test.

Someone stated the sensitive test is 3-70 range. My tests through quest diagnostics have been <29 being the range (ultrasensitive test)

Anyone have any idea why that is?

Because the optimal range for estradiol for a man of any age is between 10-30. But the quest test is the same as the labcorp nonetheless, just different cut off.

Also you can say what you want but the normal estradiol test is only accurate at higher levels.

I had bloods done last month and had both labs pulled.
estradiol 45.5H(7-42.6)
estradiol sensitive 19(3-70)

[PJS19]

Makes sense. I had a regular test and it was 24. Sensitive was 7. So I guess that 7, despite being in range, could be contributing to my issues

[jomamma007]

Makes sense. I had a regular test and it was 24. Sensitive was 7. So I guess that 7, despite being in range, could be contributing to my issues

7 is way too low bud, and would cause major symptoms for some. Don't listen to the bros saying the regular panel is sufficient. The golden sweet spot we always here of, 20-30 range is for the sensitive panel, not the regular estradiol test.

Remember a total test of 400 is still in range but would have most feeling like an old man, especially the younger you are.

[Lockout888]

The golden sweet spot we always here of, 20-30 range is for the sensitive panel, not the regular estradiol test.

Can you provide a link that confirms this please?

[PJS19]

Im basically screwed, I don't know how to get that level up. It never bounced back up. 3 months post suicide inhibitor use, When my total test was 640, e2 was 6. When my total test was 520, e2 was 7. (most recent). So looks liike Im basically screwed, I don't know how to get it to bounce back up.

7 is way too low bud, and would cause major symptoms for some. Don't listen to the bros saying the regular panel is sufficient. The golden sweet spot we always here of, 20-30 range is for the sensitive panel, not the regular estradiol test.

Remember a total test of 400 is still in range but would have most feeling like an old man, especially the younger you are.

[jomamma007]

Im basically screwed, I don't know how to get that level up. It never bounced back up. 3 months post suicide inhibitor use, When my total test was 640, e2 was 6. When my total test was 520, e2 was 7. (most recent). So looks liike Im basically screwed, I don't know how to get it to bounce back up.

up your dose, add in hcg. How do you feel at this level most importantly?

[jomamma007]

Can you provide a link that confirms this please?

Estrogen Balance is Critical to Aging Men

A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) measured blood estradiol in 501 men with chronic heart failure. Compared to men in the balanced estrogen quintile, men in the highest quintile (serum estradiol levels of 37.40 pg/mL or greater) were significantly (133%) more likely to die. Those in the lowest estradiol quintile (serum estradiol levels under 12.90 pg/mL) had a 317% increased death rate compared to the balanced group. The men in the balanced quintile—with the fewest deaths—had serum estradiol levels between 21.80 and 30.11 pg/mL (Ewa et al 2009). This is the ideal range that Life Extension has long recommended male members strive for.

An epidemic problem we at Life Extension observe in aging male members is insufficient free testosterone, i.e., less than 20 - 25 pg/mL of serum. When accompanied by excess estradiol (over 30 pg/mL of serum), this can signal excess aromatase enzyme activity.

Male Hormone Restoration - Testosterone, Estrogen, Prostate - Life Extension Health Concern

There's a better link but I gotta run!

Estrogen
Estrogen (measured as estradiol) should be in the mid- to lower-normal range. If estradiol levels are in the upper one-third of the normal reference range, or above the normal reference range, this excessive level of estrogen should be reduced. Labcorp lists a reference range of between 3-70 picogram/mL for estradiol while Quest states a reference range of between 10-50. For optimal health, estradiol should be in the range of 10-30 picogram/mL for a man of any age.

The fact that most aging men have too much estrogen does not mean it is acceptable for a man to have low estrogen. Estrogen is used by men to maintain bone density, and abnormally low estrogen levels may increase the risk for prostate cancer and osteoporosis. The objective is to achieve hormone balance, not to create sky-high testosterone levels without enough estrogen. The problem is that, if we do nothing, most men will have too much estrogen and far too little testosterone.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_h...n_therapy.html

[PJS19]

Im not on TRT. I just used a prohormone for 10 days, over 6 months ago, which contained a "suicide inhibitor" Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione. It hasnt bounced back. And I feel horrible. Severe depression/blunted emotions, low libido, joint clicking/popping. Been this way for 6 months.

up your dose, add in hcg. How do you feel at this level most importantly?

[jomamma007]

Im not on TRT. I just used a prohormone for 10 days, over 6 months ago, which contained a "suicide inhibitor" Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione. It hasnt bounced back. And I feel horrible. Severe depression/blunted emotions, low libido, joint clicking/popping. Been this way for 6 months.

HMM are you taking any supplement? It can take time to mentally recover from a pro hormone.
Hopefully more knowledgeable members than myself can chime in.

[kelkel]

Im very interested to see what some of the vets say about that quote from LEF regarding sensitive vs regular test.

Someone stated the sensitive test is 3-70 range. My tests through quest diagnostics have been <29 being the range (ultrasensitive test)

Anyone have any idea why that is?

That's an old (yet still current) standard LEF is holding on to. Crisler recently met with the man in charge of LEF (this month) and has petitioned him to switch to the sensitive assay. Money was a driving force for the standard test.

[kelkel]

Makes sense. I had a regular test and it was 24. Sensitive was 7. So I guess that 7, despite being in range, could be contributing to my issues

It's not really in-range. Or a healthy range at lease. It's just on the scale and those scales fall in line with insurance companies recommendations for the obvious reasons. Who to pay for....

[Lockout888]

The Life Extension optimal level of estrogen (measured as estradiol) for aging men is 20-30pg/mL.

Funny that LEF recommends 20-30 for E2, and they are also the one who recommend the standard test.

[kelkel]

up your dose, add in hcg. How do you feel at this level most importantly?

Not bad advice above. Eliminate one dose of adex. Or cut it down to .125 twice per week. If your DHEA is low then add a micronized product to your supplement regimen as it will also help to elevate your E2.

Consider doing one of the above and retest in a month and see where you're at. Then if possible come off the adex all together and switch to DIM-zinc-copper if you even need that. If your E doubled you'd be just fine, IMHO.

[PJS19]

Kelkel, I am not on any TRT...just took a prohormone containing suicide inhibitor Androst 3,5-dien-7, 17-dione, 6 months ago for 10 days. My e2 hasnt bounced back. E2 went up to 76 on clomid But I read that the test isnt accurate on clomid. 3 months post clomid, it dropped back down to were it was before.

Not bad advice above. Eliminate one dose of adex. Or cut it down to .125 twice per week. If your DHEA is low then add a micronized product to your supplement regimen as it will also help to elevate your E2.

Consider doing one of the above and retest in a month and see where you're at. Then if possible come off the adex all together and switch to DIM-zinc-copper if you even need that. If your E doubled you'd be just fine, IMHO.

[kelkel]

Well, I saw your listed protocol and assumed.......especially since we're in the hrt forum!
I did not see where you said you were not. Sorry bout that.

[Lockout888]

They might have been confusing the two of us... I'm the OP.

[PJS19]

No worries. Still do you have any advice for me? The joint pain is a newer symptom, maybe its from living with such low e2 for half a year now. There is zinc and copper in my multivitamin that I started taking a month ago, so maybe thats making it lower, I dont know. All I know is my life has literally been living hell for 6 months and I dont know how to fix it.

will be starting clomid 25mg eod for an attempted restart again, hopefully that raises e2.

Well, I saw your listed protocol and assumed.......especially since we're in the hrt forum!
I did not see where you said you were not. Sorry bout that.

[Lockout888]

What would be a good plan to get E2 back in the 20-30 range? Skip Anastrozole for a week then go back to .25mg per week?

Update: So since I received these labs, I stopped taking Anastrozole. I feel much better and started getting nocturnal & morning wood again.

I also switched to SubQ T injections (75mg every 3.5 days) and will be getting more labs done in a few weeks.

[bass]

good. I look forward to seeing the labs.