Sleep disturbance

**17chester6** · 12-03-2013, 05:19 PM

I started T. cypionate 50 mg IM twice weekly and DHEA 50 mg po daily just last week. I had a recent thread asking about not being on HCG or an AI and I had some useful replies (and a disturbing reply about some guy's anatomy dangling too low. LOL but, really, TMI!). Being a newbie I am unsure as to whether I ask this new question on that thread or do I start a new thread.

In any case the question: Has anyone had sleep disturbance on the above regimen? I was extremely tired (one of the main reasons I started TRT) but I slept well. Now I find it more difficult to fall asleep and I wake frequently though luckily I usually fall back asleep. I probably woke up four times last night and at 05:30 I was fully awake.

I looked up the side effects of DHEA and found a reference to insomnia in females. For men it mentioned a whole set of different side effects but not insomnia. While I respect women, this is not too flattering to me! But really, if it can happen to women it only makes sense that men can also have the problem.

Has anyone had this side effect and if so any idea how long it might last? Hopefully it is a side effect to which I will develop tolerance.

Apart from that I do have more energy and and last night went to bed at 22:00 rather than the 20:30 that I had been doing. Although I have always had a positive outlook on life I feel even "lighter in my mood" (if that makes sense). Placebo or real, it's a nice feeling.

**Brett N** · 12-03-2013, 06:47 PM

I haven't had this side effect so i can't comment on that. I have always gotten restless sleep and I started taking a supplement called Melatonin. You can buy it at any place that sells vitamins. I get mine at Wal Mart. It's not habit forming and you will wake up ready to go, no hangover feeling that sleeping pills give you at all. I take 10mg 20 minutes before bed. I have taken up to 20mg with no side effects at all.

Sorry I can't help with the issue but the Melatonin may be something you could use until you get sorted.

**zerodarkthirty** · 12-03-2013, 07:13 PM

I had similar results when using 50 mg DHEA. Take micronized DHEA in the morning and try only 25 mg to start. Brett is right, but I've found that the LIQUID form of melatonin is even more effective.

**kelkel** · 12-03-2013, 08:02 PM

Your body is searching for homeostasis. It takes time. Like Zero said, take your dhea in the am as it can act as a mild stimulant.

**APIs** · 12-04-2013, 09:37 AM

I've suffered with sleep issues for years, regardless of TRT. Owning my own business, every time I go to bed I start thinking of what needs to be done the next day. An endless cycle. Recently, my Doc suggested that I purchase a "White-Noise" machine & place it next to my bed. I can tell you it has worked well. This combined with an occasional OTC sleep-aid and my sleep has become much better. Good luck...

**17chester6** · 12-06-2013, 09:27 AM

So here's the rub. I assumed my insomnia was from DHEA (today is my one week anniversary on TRT and DHEA) and so I did not take the DHEA yesterday. The half life of DHEA is less that 12 hours and when I went to bed it was over 36 hours since the last dose; the blood level should have been negligible. All yesterday I was still feeling my new alert self, I was not fading at 20:00 as I had been pre-TRT and I had to make myself go to bed at 22:00. Heck, I had one of my best days at the gym and was benching way better than expected (placebo effect as it's only been a week?).

Anyhow, again the insomnia. So perhaps I have an underlying issue with insomnia and the new elevation of testosterone from my injections has unmasked the issue. Perhaps it's just that I was just too knocked out from low T and with my new higher levels (not yet ascertained as this is only week 1) the problem presents itself.

I will skip the 2nd day of DHEA and see if this persists and if so I will restart the DHEA and add Melatonin as someone earlier suggested.

From my reading exogenous testosterone by itself is not associated with insomnia. Any thoughts?

**Tnatious** · 12-09-2013, 09:18 AM

You are most certainly experiencing placebo effects at this point from the exogenous testosterone .
But, are you taking any other medications? Pre-workouts? The DHEA should be micronized troche placed under the tongue in the am at 25 mg until you know how you respond.
I have ALWAYS suffered insomnia of a sort. Like you- I find that I get up about 2-3 times EVERY night and eat!!! Lol.
I have since implemented 4 supplements that have worked wonders!!!!!
5-HTP + VALERIAN ROOT + DOPA BEAN (Mucuna Pruriens) + MELATONIN = SLEEP LIKE A BABY ?

**bass** · 12-09-2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by APIs

I've suffered with sleep issues for years, regardless of TRT. Owning my own business, every time I go to bed I start thinking of what needs to be done the next day. An endless cycle. Recently, my Doc suggested that I purchase a "White-Noise" machine & place it next to my bed. I can tell you it has worked well. This combined with an occasional OTC sleep-aid and my sleep has become much better. Good luck...

absolutely true! I own my won business too and know exactly what you're saying. funny you mentioned noise machines, when I am watching TV I can't keep my eyes open, I turn it off and go to bed and as soon as I hit the pillow I have insomnia. so I turn the TV back on and within few minutes I am snoring!

**Brett N** · 12-09-2013, 05:00 PM

Never tried a noise machine. I have always slet with a box fan running though. I guess it is like a noise machine except it blows the air.

**bass** · 12-09-2013, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Brett N

Never tried a noise machine. I have always slet with a box fan running though. I guess it is like a noise machine except it blows the air.

that works too!

**lovbyts** · 12-10-2013, 02:38 AM

I use an air purifier so I'm not simply blowing air/dust around the room but continually cleaning the air.

I know on test you can have sleep issues for up to a few months while your body is adjusting to everything.

What is your TRT protocal? How much? How often? Do you use an AI at all?

I have had sleep issues for several years. Partially due to shift work, I work nights, 12 hr shifts. I though I also had sleep apnea and the sleep study test showed I did but the machine has not helped at all. Made things worse if anything.

After hearing something on the radio and doing some online research I came to the conclusion of I have fibomyalgia because after just a couple of hours of sleep Im pretty sore/stiff. After 4+ hrs I hurt pretty bad and after 6 it's almost unbearable when I wake up. It was rare I get 6hrs sleep.

I started taking Gabapentin 3 weeks ago and have sleep 6+ hrs every night except 1 since then.

Have you had any sleep issues in the past? Any other recent changes?

**APIs** · 12-10-2013, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by bass

absolutely true! I own my won business too and know exactly what you're saying. funny you mentioned noise machines, when I am watching TV I can't keep my eyes open, I turn it off and go to bed and as soon as I hit the pillow I have insomnia. so I turn the TV back on and within few minutes I am snoring!

Yeah Bass, go to Bed, Bath & Beyond & a white-noise machine is about $20-$25 with a couple models to pick from. You can choose constant sounds ranging from a babbling brook, rain & 4 other sound type settings. I was skeptical at first, but it has really made a difference...

**bass** · 12-10-2013, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by APIs

Yeah Bass, go to Bed, Bath & Beyond & a white-noise machine is about $20-$25 with a couple models to pick from. You can choose constant sounds ranging from a babbling brook, rain & 4 other sound type settings. I was skeptical at first, but it has really made a difference...

yes it does, in fact they make similar units for infants! these units mimic the sound the baby hears in the womb, we've tried it on few of our babies and we were shocked how fast they worked! I wonder what will it feel like if there is absolute silence, maybe we'll go crazy! LOL.

**jomamma007** · 12-10-2013, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by 17chester6

So here's the rub. I assumed my insomnia was from DHEA (today is my one week anniversary on TRT and DHEA) and so I did not take the DHEA yesterday. The half life of DHEA is less that 12 hours and when I went to bed it was over 36 hours since the last dose; the blood level should have been negligible. All yesterday I was still feeling my new alert self, I was not fading at 20:00 as I had been pre-TRT and I had to make myself go to bed at 22:00. Heck, I had one of my best days at the gym and was benching way better than expected (placebo effect as it's only been a week?).

Anyhow, again the insomnia. So perhaps I have an underlying issue with insomnia and the new elevation of testosterone from my injections has unmasked the issue. Perhaps it's just that I was just too knocked out from low T and with my new higher levels (not yet ascertained as this is only week 1) the problem presents itself.

I will skip the 2nd day of DHEA and see if this persists and if so I will restart the DHEA and add Melatonin as someone earlier suggested.

From my reading exogenous testosterone by itself is not associated with insomnia. Any thoughts?

It's really a hit or miss as far as how your pre-trt insomnia will react to trt. I've heard of guys after beginning treatment sleeping like a baby.

Personally my sleep is probably worse, I have restless Leg Syndrome which constantly wakes me up. As others have stated in this thread, I'm constantly thinking about improvements and strategies for my life so this really effects my sleep. A lot of us obsess over all the changes TRT brings the first few months and it can play tricks on you. Let your body reach its new homeostasis.

Plus if you have some sort of sleep apnea, trt can definitely aggravate it. But you are only 1 week into TRT. Don't worry about little changes here and there. Give it at least a month, ideally 3 and then evaluate the situations.

Of course you still need blood work at the 6 week mark.

I initially though dhea was giving me anxiety but it was all in my head. I would continue to supplement, as well as adding a micronized pregnenolone product.