Timing of Protocol Components

[no0ne23]

What's the best timing to take test-cyp, hcg, and anastrozole throughout a week?

My current protocol is 180mg cyp (1x), 500UI hcg (3x), and .5mg ai (3x). I requested this month's allotment be broken down into two injections of 90mg every 3.5 days instead of 180mg at once. They suggest taking all three at once on Monday, and the other two (hcg & ai) again Wed & Fri.

I want to minimize my future dependency on the ai as much as possible and have been reading that it may be better to take it 24 hours after the test. Any inputs on this thought? Should hcg be 24 hours before test or does it really matter? The anti-aging clinic pushed for 48 hours after test injection. When they bumped me from 2x to 3x on hcg & ai, they acted like it really didn't matter when I took them.

I'm hoping a split dose will help lead me towards not needing the ai in the future.

Thanks!

[no0ne23]

For additional reference, here are my test numbers from my original intro thread a while back. The only difference now is that I am splitting the 180mg e/w dose into 2x 90mg every 3.5 days. **All tests were taken 7 days after a t-cyp injection.

Baseline Test (morning w/ full fast), before any treatment: early Aug 2013 via Quest Diagnostics
Treatment Before Results: None
DHEA Sulfate: 161 (110-370 mcg/dL)
FSH: 2.7 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH: 2.8 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
Prolactin: 6.9 (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
Estradiol: 21 (< OR = 39 pg/mL)
PSA, Total: 2.0 (< OR = 4.0 ng/mL)
Testosterone , Total (LC/MS/MS): 277 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free (LC/MS/MS): 34.6 (35.0-155.0 pg/mL)
Treatment After Results: T-Cyp 140mg IM every Tuesday, 500UI hCG (SubQ) & .5mg Anastrozole on Tue & Fri.

4-Week Progress Test (morning w/ full fast): mid Sept 2013 via Quest Diagnostics
Treatment Before Results: T-Cyp 140mg IM every Tuesday, 500UI hCG (SubQ) & .5mg Anastrozole on Tue & Fri.
Estradiol: 23 (< OR = 39 pg/mL)
PSA, Total: 2.2 (< OR = 4.0 ng/mL)
Testosterone, Total (LC/MS/MS): 531 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free (LC/MS/MS): 111.2 (35.0-155.0 pg/mL)
Treatment After Results: T-Cyp 160mg IM every Tuesday, 500UI hCG (SubQ) & .5mg Anastrozole on Tue & Fri.

12-Week Progress Test (morning w/ full fast): mid Nov 2013 via LabCorp
Treatment Before Results: T-Cyp 160mg IM every Tuesday, 500UI hCG (SubQ) & .5mg Anastrozole on Tue & Fri.
Estradiol: 33.0 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
PSA, Total: 2.1 (< OR = 4.0 ng/mL)
Testosterone, Total (Serum): 608 (348-1197 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free (Direct): 13.8 (8.7-25.1 pg/mL)
Treatment After Results: T-Cyp 180mg IM every Monday, 500UI hCG (IM) & .5mg Anastrozole on Mon, Wed, & Fri.

[FRDave]

I inject test twice weekly, every 3.5 days. The day before I inject HCG and the day after I take my arimidex.

[bass]

I inject test twice weekly, every 3.5 days. The day before I inject HCG and the day after I take my arimidex.

^^^ this, and don't over think it.

[Brett N]

Test injection
24 hours after injection - anastrozole
42 hours after injection - HCG
3.5 days (84 hours after 1st test inj.) - 2nd test injection

Repeat

Doesn't have to be that perfect on timing but in theory that is what you want. My HCG is actually 48 hours after injection and no harm is done. I do all my pills and injections at 5 O'clock. Sometimes 5am, sometimes 5pm. That hour works good for me and helps me keep it straight in my head.

I only do anastrozole (1/4mg) once a week and I do it after 1st injection of week. Taking ir=t twice made my E drop low enough where I felt like crap.

[kelkel]

Couple things:

What is your current BF%? (approximately)
You need a sensitive E2 assay, not estradiol.

The amount of adex your are taking is more that the normal amount used on cycles of 500mg + Test per week. Why do you or your doctor think you need so much? You need to get on a twice per week protocol and probably titrate your dosage down a bit, quite honestly. You will maintain more steady levels this way and have less of a spike in estrogen. Less injected at one time = less spike in E2. Therefore, easier to manage.

As referenced by Brett above, adex is best taken the day after test injection which times the peak of the test allowing you to get by with less adex, which is your goal. You're also on the high end with HCG. IMHO you'd be fine titrating this down as well which will help with intratesticular E2 that adex doesn't control. If injecting 3 X per week with HCG timing with test shots is irrelevant. Simply go M-W-F.

Get on a twice per week protocol as it will help you. Also find a way to reduce your adex as it's really a ridiculously high amount for an HRT.

[no0ne23]

Thanks for the info guys! This is the confirmation I was looking for.

Kel, your concerns were the same as my own. I'm ~17% BF, 215lbs. Based on the past couple of months on this forum, I felt like my protocol was too high on hcg & ai -- compared to the norm. This is 100% driven by the clinic and I have stuck to their protocol to a T. They started me at 500UI & .5mg twice a week my first week on TRT. They boosted me to 3x with both when I mentioned a slight shrinkage of the testicles, which also coincided with BW showing the slight jump in Estradiol.

The real reason for asking is that I have noticed a slight decrease in energy & libido over the past 4 weeks since bumping them both, which I assume is from either high or low E2. I'm thinking about decreasing them both back down to 2x week, especially now they've split my dose (based on my request). Based on all I have read, I would like to eventually get adex out of my protocol, if possible.

I'm seeing a new local TRT doc (recommended by another user on here) in 2 weeks. I'll be able to follow up with BW and will request sensitive E2 assay. The new doc should be writing prescriptions for the medications instead of holding them over my head to force regular appointments, so they can milk my insurance. I will make sure to push for a 2x weekly protocol and to level set the supporting components where they *should* be.

Thanks again for the info!!!

[no0ne23]

Kel, would you recommend me dropping the Anastrozole to .25mg and sticking with 3x a week? Or should I keep the half tab and just drop the frequency? Or should I drop both amount & frequency and start with .25mg twice a week until my next set of BW?

Thanks!

[kelkel]

Well, changes should be made based on BW but I just can't imagine anyone needing that much on a TRT protocol. It's seriously a lot and the cycle example I gave you is accurate, trust me. IMHO it will eventually crash your E2. Your clinic does the standard estradiol test as it's cheap when compared to a sensitive assay.

When it comes to shrinkage it can happen to some even with HCG. It did to me. Good thing is it's only cosmetic so no worries. Again, more is not better here. I prefer smaller, more frequent dosing such as 250iu M-W-F. I avoid all shots on weekends. Why complicate things when your off having fun, traveling, etc.

Personally, I would titrate down as you said and retest in a month. Remember you can always use private md labs if you want to do some tests on your own. If you self inject why can't you alter your protocol to twice per week?

[no0ne23]

I have altered my injection schedule (for test) to twice a week now. The clinic I go to sends me home with a couple of weeks worth of syringes pre-loaded. This week, I asked them to cut the dose in half for cyp and have started with test every 3.5 days now (90mg 2x per week). The hcg is still pre-loaded in insulin syringes with 500IUs. I'll cut my ai tabs into quarters and move to the schedule recommended above. With the new doc, I should be able to load my own syringes so I can be in more control of my doses.

I'll shoot to do smaller doses of hcg more frequently, but will keep it down to 2x week for now. I am thinking...

Mon 8AM: test-cyp (90mg)
Tue 8AM: AI (.25mg)
Wed 8AM: HCG (500IU)
Thu 8PM: test-cyp (90mg)
Fri 8PM: AI (.25mg)
Sat 8PM: HCG (500IU)
Sun: None

When I can dose my own hcg, I'll switch those to 250UI M-W-F.

[Low Testosterone]

I have altered my injection schedule (for test) to twice a week now. The clinic I go to sends me home with a couple of weeks worth of syringes pre-loaded. This week, I asked them to cut the dose in half for cyp and have started with test every 3.5 days now (90mg 2x per week). The hcg is still pre-loaded in insulin syringes with 500IUs. I'll cut my ai tabs into quarters and move to the schedule recommended above. With the new doc, I should be able to load my own syringes so I can be in more control of my doses.

I'll shoot to do smaller doses of hcg more frequently, but will keep it down to 2x week for now. I am thinking...

Mon 8AM: test-cyp (90mg)
Tue 8AM: AI (.25mg)
Wed 8AM: HCG (500IU)
Thu 8PM: test-cyp (90mg)
Fri 8PM: AI (.25mg)
Sat 8PM: HCG (500IU)
Sun: None

When I can dose my own hcg, I'll switch those to 250UI M-W-F.

I've seen post like the above on here several times where guys inject their testosterone exactly every 3.5 days apart. Not every Mon. & Thur but right on the dot of every 84hrs and match all there other things on the exact related time schedule. There's nothing wrong with doing this but I don't believe for a second that it actually helps in any significant way. More importantly, it takes away from your life when you have to worry about it this much. People far too often overcomplicate this stuff. Stay consistent and find a good protocol and you're good to go. If you're having to think about TRT all day every day something's off.

Craziest protocol I've ever heard of or seen. Guy emailed me and had a monthly schedule, not weekly but monthly. Each week was different. He had days where he injected specific amounts of testosterone cypionate and then various amounts of HCG on certain days. He was injecting every single day of one or the other or on some days both. He also had testosterone propionate in the mix. While you might think his doses were high they weren't, they were pretty standard but minuscule amounts each time. He said he had figured out how to time things out just as if his body was doing all this on his own. Was the guy nuts? I don't know, maybe not in all areas of his life but he was in this one. Oh, I almost forgot, he took anastrozole on the basis of feel. Some days he'd take it daily, sometimes not, sometimes half a tab sometimes a full tab.

[kelkel]

I've seen post like the above on here several times where guys inject their testosterone exactly every 3.5 days apart. Not every Mon. & Thur but right on the dot of every 84hrs and match all there other things on the exact related time schedule. There's nothing wrong with doing this but I don't believe for a second that it actually helps in any significant way. More importantly, it takes away from your life when you have to worry about it this much. People far too often overcomplicate this stuff. Stay consistent and find a good protocol and you're good to go. If you're having to think about TRT all day every day something's off.

Craziest protocol I've ever heard of or seen. Guy emailed me and had a monthly schedule, not weekly but monthly. Each week was different. He had days where he injected specific amounts of testosterone cypionate and then various amounts of HCG on certain days. He was injecting every single day of one or the other or on some days both. He also had testosterone propionate in the mix. While you might think his doses were high they weren't, they were pretty standard but minuscule amounts each time. He said he had figured out how to time things out just as if his body was doing all this on his own. Was the guy nuts? I don't know, maybe not in all areas of his life but he was in this one. Oh, I almost forgot, he took anastrozole on the basis of feel. Some days he'd take it daily, sometimes not, sometimes half a tab sometimes a full tab.

Damn, that's micromanaging. Simple is better. Much better. The process can definitely be "over thought." Even the every 3.5 day protocols. Basically every 3-4 days is just fine. Life shouldn't revolve around an injection time.

[Low Testosterone]

Damn, that's micromanaging. Simple is better. Much better. The process can definitely be "over thought." Even the every 3.5 day protocols. Basically every 3-4 days is just fine. Life shouldn't revolve around an injection time.

Exactly. I normally take a shot on Thur but forgot to. I don't normally forget but Christmas and all that and things get off their routine. So I took my shot Friday. Nothing bad happened, I feel the exact same and no I am not going to change when I inject based on an injection on a non-scheduled day. Mon & Thur is how I do it. I wakeup, take a leak and then inject my testosterone. I'm still half asleep and it takes I'd say a grand total of 15 seconds.

[no0ne23]

Agreed on keeping it simple. For me, the 3.5 days isn't an issue. I'm a night-owl and a late riser, so 8AM is fresh out of the shower & 8PM is about the time I head to the gym. I just like to lock things into a regular schedule -- keeps me from forgetting altogether. Otherwise my 3-4 days turns into "oops, I forgot to do it this week."

Thanks again for all the feedback! Not only on this thread, but I've been following all the posts the past several weeks -- it's amazing how much knowledge & experience is on this forum.

[kelkel]

It's a great place to learn noOne! Stick around, read, learn and contribute! Check out all the other forums as well. We have them on many different topics and then there's the Lounge where pretty much anything goes. It can be hysterical. Check it out.