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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Depressed/anxiety??

    I'm posting this because I'm looking for some help. My blood work says my levels are with in range. I've been feeling depressed lately. Actually it's been a while. It's to the point that I am going to a psychiatrist for it. But I'm super hesitant. I am paranoid about those effects. Read that benzo's are crazy. And I feel like that's not the path I need to take. I gotta bloodwork back in July and I will post my results when I can. I was watching bigger stronger faster(Arnold interview) and he said that steroids do something to your mind. And from the research I've done on test prop/cyp/enth, it seems like the sense of well being is a life changing thing for some o these guys here. Just looking for someone who can relate more or less. Thanks in advance

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    I haven't been able to work out because the mood just isn't there. Was taking pwo while lifting. Was eating clean ish. But I just wasn't able to psych myself up to eat. Kept being pessimistic. I was even eatin raw eggs for crying out loud. I wanted it Aj bad but my mind/body is just no synching together I dunno lol I don't know what to do

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    ^**^^ I wanted it so bad. Dunno any aj's

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    BallSak is offline Associate Member
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    Post up your labs and we will try to help. Depression is a complex issue. But we all experience it from time to time, some more than others, so you are not alone. Hormones can certainly be part of the problem but not necessarily the entirety of it.

    For now, focus on the things you have control over, like your attitude. I have found the greatest remedy to help me when I'm down is a kick ass training session at the gym.

    Hang in there, plenty of guys here feel your pain and will do what they can to help out.
    Last edited by BallSak; 01-06-2014 at 12:59 PM.
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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Thanks, I'm trying to get my results from the chiropractor I went to who overlooked the results. Believe I would live to get a great pump. I do believe it helps. Unfortunately my muscle tension/bAcknpain gets the better days of the week! Horrible man. I'm still fighting but my lower back just stays sore/stiff and I believe that's derived from muscle tension due to anxiety.

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    dreadnok89 is offline Member
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    Anxiety and depression are different tho. I got anxiety where I can't sleep

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Yeah, I have that symptom.. Wake up from something and mind starts racing about life. Anxiety and depression actually can feed off of each other, so it seems. I wonder if anyone has had similar thoughts and then tried trt for example and just never looked back ya know. My results said my levels of test and estrogen were normal. I don't think it's low t but I feel like I have the symptoms
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    Brett N is offline Senior Member
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    Within range doesn't mean shit. Optimal is within the upper third of range. If you are paying money for a therapist, talk to someone with LowT.com that has more knowledge than most who treat LowT.

    In meantime...if it is winter and crappy out where you live. Some exposure to sun and doing something you enjoy can raise your mood. 10 minutes in a tanning bed helps, seems stupid but it really will make you feel better. Force yourself to do any kind of exercise, no matter what it is.

    Anxiety was my biggest symptom of my LowT along with the depression that resulted from it. I would vomit when I thought about stuff too much, no sleep and missing work because I got overwhelmed with any thing that happend (water heat quit working once).

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    testytim is offline Associate Member
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    Well rudy6 i know something about this.. I have had A/D for the last 20 years or so. And yes i believe they do cross lines at some point.I have been on every know drug i think for it...SSRIs benzos.done homeopathic. I wasted so much money looking for answers its crazy. So i will answer your question and it not what you want to hear..Everyone is different.So for me it did nothing but confuse the issue IMO..At times i think it made it worse. I should note been on trt for 6 years..Gels patchs and injectibles.. So i will say trt did really not much for me. I believe that numbers dont tell the whole story. I personally dont feel any different at 1000 or 200.When i started trt i was at 177 with no ED issues..To be honest i feel better at 400 then at 800.As we speak i do 30mgs of test e3d and no ai..So i will say what does work IMO.I Went on 1ui HGH a day and i will say it better then anything i have done so far..Its not for everyone but thats my story...


    P/S i AM 58 YEARS OLD

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    Your coming to wrong place for suggestions, work it out with your trained psychiatrist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironbeck View Post
    Your coming to wrong place for suggestions, work it out with your trained psychiatrist.
    I disagree. I think he's in the best possible place.
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    dreadnok89 is offline Member
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    I only had anxiety and when I got my test fixed it went away
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUDY 6 View Post
    I'm posting this because I'm looking for some help. My blood work says my levels are with in range. I've been feeling depressed lately. Actually it's been a while. It's to the point that I am going to a psychiatrist for it. But I'm super hesitant. I am paranoid about those effects. Read that benzo's are crazy. And I feel like that's not the path I need to take. I gotta bloodwork back in July and I will post my results when I can. I was watching bigger stronger faster(Arnold interview) and he said that steroids do something to your mind. And from the research I've done on test prop/cyp/enth, it seems like the sense of well being is a life changing thing for some o these guys here. Just looking for someone who can relate more or less. Thanks in advance
    avoid benzos. look into valarian root and/or kavakava, cannabis also if its legal for you. but none of these will fix the issue, just help at times. I rec you looking at this that helped me in past> Stop Panic Attacks and Anxiety | Listen Now

    good luck

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Thanks for advice. Yeah I do think I'm better off here than a pysch at first. Knowledgable member willing to look over my BW to help a brother out...I have tried the valerian root. Kava kava. Ashwaghanda. All natural herbs for anxiety and mood. Didn't seem to really help. I have a close friend that is currently going through the medication merry go round and I personaly see the effects and tbh am scared to death of goin through that. I know cannabis works but unfortunately it's illegal my wife doesn't condone it! So I am forced to go through this stuff with someone else's control. I went to that low t website but there's no where close. But I'm still working on getting my labs and I will post back... Thanks guys

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    ironbeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUDY 6 View Post
    Thanks for advice. Yeah I do think I'm better off here than a pysch at first. Knowledgable member willing to look over my BW to help a brother out...I have tried the valerian root. Kava kava. Ashwaghanda. All natural herbs for anxiety and mood. Didn't seem to really help. I have a close friend that is currently going through the medication merry go round and I personaly see the effects and tbh am scared to death of goin through that. I know cannabis works but unfortunately it's illegal my wife doesn't condone it! So I am forced to go through this stuff with someone else's control. I went to that low t website but there's no where close. But I'm still working on getting my labs and I will post back... Thanks guys
    Yea your right, your better off here taking advise from a avatar that could be controlled by a lunatic, than a DR with a REAL name and a tangible degree?
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    Juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUDY 6 View Post
    Thanks for advice. Yeah I do think I'm better off here than a pysch at first. Knowledgable member willing to look over my BW to help a brother out...I have tried the valerian root. Kava kava. Ashwaghanda. All natural herbs for anxiety and mood. Didn't seem to really help. I have a close friend that is currently going through the medication merry go round and I personaly see the effects and tbh am scared to death of goin through that. I know cannabis works but unfortunately it's illegal my wife doesn't condone it! So I am forced to go through this stuff with someone else's control. I went to that low t website but there's no where close. But I'm still working on getting my labs and I will post back... Thanks guys
    how long did you stick with the kavakava? atleasta few weeks having atleast a serving a day? I can tell you the two places i get mine, if interested pm me. also listen to this audio book, it is VERY long but VERY worth a listen, I have
    more than once.>>>
    Dale Carnegie How to Stop Worrying and Start Living - YouTube
    Its pretty good

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    Quote Originally Posted by RUDY 6 View Post
    Thanks, I'm trying to get my results from the chiropractor I went to who overlooked the results. Believe I would live to get a great pump. I do believe it helps. Unfortunately my muscle tension/bAcknpain gets the better days of the week! Horrible man. I'm still fighting but my lower back just stays sore/stiff and I believe that's derived from muscle tension due to anxiety.
    what results form chiropractor, blood work? is so what tests did he run? I didn't know chiropractors can order BW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironbeck View Post
    Yea your right, your better off here taking advise from a avatar that could be controlled by a lunatic, than a DR with a REAL name and a tangible degree?
    It's been said so many times before: Just because a person has a degree and has a license to practice medicine doesn't mean that he or she is competent to do so. IMO, psychiatry is essentially a failure because it doesn't understand the human mind. This is no secret. It's actually common knowledge. And because it doesn't have the answers, it depends on chemical treatment - exclusively. Have you tried psychotherapy or psychoanalysis? Don't hear much about these nowadays. I believe if these are ever marginally helpful, it's because a person who had nowhere to turn, had someone to talk to.

    A person who is depressed feels terrifically alone and different from others - isolated. Here on this forum, a person who is in pain, has the opportunity to share his thoughts and feelings with others who have gone through similar things. People can offer help - a lifeline. This in itself has a person begin to see that he is related to others and feel that he's not alone. "Relation" is terrific therapy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sox View Post
    It's been said so many times before: Just because a person has a degree and has a license to practice medicine doesn't mean that he or she is competent to do so. IMO, psychiatry is essentially a failure because it doesn't understand the human mind. This is no secret. It's actually common knowledge. And because it doesn't have the answers, it depends on chemical treatment - exclusively. Have you tried psychotherapy or psychoanalysis? Don't hear much about these nowadays. I believe if these are ever marginally helpful, it's because a person who had nowhere to turn, had someone to talk to.

    A person who is depressed feels terrifically alone and different from others - isolated. Here on this forum, a person who is in pain, has the opportunity to share his thoughts and feelings with others who have gone through similar things. People can offer help - a lifeline. This in itself has a person begin to see that he is related to others and feel that he's not alone. "Relation" is terrific therapy.
    well said 2Sox!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironbeck View Post
    Yea your right, your better off here taking advise from a avatar that could be controlled by a lunatic, than a DR with a REAL name and a tangible degree?
    Furthermore, this statement completely takes away the value and makes less of every member of this forum who has put their heart into being useful to the others on it - including yourself.

    Too bad there isn't a "Dislike" tab.
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    I don't think anyone would disagree with the idea of coming here and posting your thoughts in order to feel better. We all do it. I feel better most times I visit. I'm guessing that ironbeck might be referring to ppl who come here to get medical advice (should I cut/increase my t dose, should I start an ai, etc...) instead of discussing it with their Dr. Most here should not throw out medical advice. This is not happening yet in this thread, but I cringe when members make serious medical decisions based on what Joe Internet says.
    And, I'm not disagreeing with your first post.

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    May I ask is there anything going on in your personal life that may be the initial cause of this, such as loss of friend, relative, job, relationship issue that may have caused this depression?

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    BallSak is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironbeck View Post
    Yea your right, your better off here taking advise from a avatar that could be controlled by a lunatic, than a DR with a REAL name and a tangible degree?
    You have really contributed to the purpose of this thread!

    If a guy can't come here to seek potential solutions to his problems and weigh out other people's experiences against his, then why the hell do we have this forum? I thought that is what it's for.
    Last edited by BallSak; 01-07-2014 at 08:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty11 View Post
    I don't think anyone would disagree with the idea of coming here and posting your thoughts in order to feel better. We all do it. I feel better most times I visit. I'm guessing that ironbeck might be referring to ppl who come here to get medical advice (should I cut/increase my t dose, should I start an ai, etc...) instead of discussing it with their Dr. Most here should not throw out medical advice. This is not happening yet in this thread, but I cringe when members make serious medical decisions based on what Joe Internet says.
    And, I'm not disagreeing with your first post.
    Rusty,
    Thanks for your comments. And I agree with you. When I first joined this forum, there were some members who gave out just that kind of medical advice - without referencing scientific data so that posters could make an informed decision. Much too often comments were NOT prefaced by something like, "In my opinion", or "I'd suggest" or "The research says" - or other words to that effect. There was a lot of "Do this" being thrown around. This disturbed me a lot. I was a newbie then and tried to point it out and I really don't know how much of an effect my comments had. Anyway, I hope people are sharp and do their homework on whatever they read here.

    Regarding what Ironbeck might be referring to: Why don't we let him say what he meant?
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    miker295 is offline New Member
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    Rudy6,

    For what it's worth, I've also been in the dumps the last few months, and started TRT about a month ago. I immediately got out of the dumps, but I think I overcorrected! Now I'm anxious as anything. So TRT is not a magic cure all, and may bring about other problems, but I do think it's something to consider and a potential alternative to some of the more powerful pharma options out there. If you do start I would encourage small steps.

    I am being treated through a local T clinic. I do think it's best to get a professional's advice, but I have learned through many years of trial and error that doctors provide opinions just like anyone else. They may present those opinions as definitive answers, but they are still opinions, albeit professionally educated ones. Ultimately your health is in your hands, and so you have to consider the doctor's opinion with those expressed in this forum and elsewhere and determine how much weight you want to assign to each. Some of us weigh the doc's opinion more than others.

    Based on my experiences thus far I do think that T/E2 levels directly impact depression/anxiety, so getting those in balance is a worthy objective. Just remember there are many ways to do that beyond TRT that may serve you better, particularly if it's difficult to find a TRT clinic or doctor in your area. You are on the right track, keep going!

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Wow so much to respond to. I guess I'll start by saying that I'm not seeking medical advice from an online bot haha. I'm pretty sure 2SOX got it right...I didn't try kava kava very long maybe 4 days or so. I bought the powdered form and the root it's self holding it helps. When chewing on the root you get a numbing sensation In your mouth And you do feel relaxed but I can walk around with a eagle claw full of kava root in my mouth lol.

    Miker295,
    Thanks for the advice, this past summer is when I got my bloodwork. The place is a wellness center and offers a wide variety of treatments and the even give people hcg ! So I asked the to order blood work with my ccortisol levels test and estrogen and something else. Still having trouble receiving my results via email so I may have to go there and get them. But that's why I am here, because I do feel that the psychiatrists are medicating with medicine that makes things mch worse. I seen this first hand through my best friend who now I don't even want in my house because he seems so unstable. And still has the same problem he started with!

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Juced porkchop , thanks for that material I will look at it later when I'm home and have time.
    King 6,
    There's been some things have happens.
    Death of grand father, put both my shepards down. Job responsibility increase 10. And unfortunately I hate to admit this but, once my back pain started to kick in and the depression came on, the gym went to the way side. My wife has a bad habit of making me realize that I've been missing the gym! And that's very very hard to deal with.

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    I did feel sooo good when I lifted but I just don't have it in my mind! I don't have that drive. Everyone knows what I'm talking about. That throw the weights around like they just disrespected you drive. It's gone and I want it back

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    Quote Originally Posted by RUDY 6 View Post
    I did feel sooo good when I lifted but I just don't have it in my mind! I don't have that drive. Everyone knows what I'm talking about. That throw the weights around like they just disrespected you drive. It's gone and I want it back
    Have you tried going to the gym to just do Cardio? Cardio is recommended by docs for improving feelings of depression. I personally believe it helps quite a bit. I have worked out consistently most of my life, whether i wanted to or not. Exercise as a lifestyle is not just about hitting the big gains and pushing the weight around. No athlete can keep a pace of training intensity for the big season or big fight etc. Rudy i really recommend you get in the gym because it's obvious you miss it. Dont know how bad your back pain is but you really need to take the step and start moving, stretching, recumbent bike is probably the least stressful. If you want it back don't expect it to just show up one day. You have to take day 1 and make it happen. I am 59 years old, so i am not someone who has not had to work through MANY HARDSHIPS. I kept pushing even if it were going through the motions as i knew mentally and physically it is better than not doing anything. Sharing problems is therapeutic and knowing it's not just you that has difficulties. Finding out others success through natural therapy such as exercise is uplifting. I am hoping you head to the gym and get some energy from the feeling of well being through exercise, cardio etc. Even short term mental boosts help move forward in place of sinking.
    Best to you!
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    bullshark99 is offline Member
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    ^^^^^^^^Now that there is million dollar advice! You nailed it Easy! I will not be niave and say hey Rudy get your butt in the gym, just do it and all your problems will go away but ONE step at a time...... I have several hern discs am a fusion canadate so I can relate to your back pain as almost everyone here can or with a dif body part could.
    I once complained to my Doc a very similiar story, no desire to workout, would show up and ten mins later, shower and leave. Those then turned into "drivebyes", slow down and keep going. My Doc reinforced when your at your bottom is the time you need to push because thats when you need it most. Give it a shot, even if your first workout is 20 minutes, make it routine again weather you want to or not. Did wonders for me.
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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Thanks guys. I think I will... It's gonna be hard but I will do it. I'll check back tomorrow. Your words are very supportive. It's very nice to be able to talk here and know that I'm not the only one....I will also have BW results tomorrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by RUDY 6 View Post
    Thanks guys. I think I will... It's gonna be hard but I will do it. I'll check back tomorrow. Your words are very supportive. It's very nice to be able to talk here and know that I'm not the only one....I will also have BW results tomorrow
    Bullshark and Easy made some very good points. I was a long distance runner for many years - until my ankles gave in. Central Park was my track. Read all the journals and books but the training tip I found to be most useful and most true was, "The hardest part of running is getting out the door."

    There was an interesting discussion on "depression" on another thread, which I took part in. I'd suggest you take a look at it and give it a good read. If you feel it would be useful, shoot off some comments and questions which might come to mind.

    http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...-im-going.html

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    dhickey is offline Junior Member
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    Doing the equivalent of speed work or neural charge workouts might help and allow you to keep lifting. I know it helped me quite a bit when I was really suffering from low adrenal output. Anything that was physically taxing would completely drain me. Light and fast barbell work would make me feel more stimulated than when I started.

    I would do basic warm-up sets and work up in weight with doubles or singles. I would keep working up as long as reps were fast. The first set that felt heavy and slow was my last. I never planned progressively heavier sets from workout to workout. I think I had two different circuits I would run through on two different days.

    Bench and DL
    Some DB rows and straight leg incline situps after.

    Squat, OHP, Pull-ups
    Face pulls and ab wheel after

    I think I might thrown some jumps in there too. Workouts where 45min max and I felt great after. I would usually do this at lunch and it really helped me get through the afternoon without a shit ton of coffee.

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    MyteeJ is offline Associate Member
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    I went through a mental change when I started TRT - mostly for the positive but there were definitely some new/different feelings that i had in my head that I had to deal with. I am a "Type A" by nature and that has definitely been enhanced with TRT.

    I really appreciate the discussion since this is a topic of interest so I hope the group stays positive here.

    I was on the merry go round back in the day with meds but until I fixed body, mind, and soul, I wasn't able to resolve the anxiety/depression. It's a rough road and with our ages here, it may be more difficult to deal with as we "mature".

    Kids, families, jobs, and the demands of life do change with age and having low energy via low T make them even more of a challenge. Injuries or something like back pain also send us into a tailspin. I was knocked out of the gym and basic good health for a long time and that takes it's toll.

    Thanks for bringing this topic up Rudy and hang in there!

    J

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    Through studying philosophy for a good many years (the philosophy which the article I mention is based on), I've learned some central things about the human mind . One of these very revolutionary things has been the central cause of anxiety, depression and like states of mind. (And psychiatry has failed miserably because it doesn't have a clue about it. This is my educated, careful opinion.) I just finished reading an article, and an editorial comment prefacing it, that IMO makes the cause of these troubled states of mind very clear. This quote from the article, in its simplicity, speaks volumes:

    "When we are unfair to the world, we cannot let ourselves get away with it—not in terms of our own feeling and thoughts and life. We punish ourselves in various ways. One way is through nervousness, a deep ill-at-easeness. Another way we punish ourselves for contempt is through an unshakable self-dislike."

    I'd recommend you give it a read. I believe you all will see something of yourself in what it describes. I did. Its title is The Ethics of Mind.

    The Ethics of Mind / The Right of Aesthetic Realism to Be Known
    Last edited by 2Sox; 01-11-2014 at 11:00 AM.
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  36. #36
    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Ok so I finally got my blood work ..:.Depressed/anxiety??-image.jpg

  37. #37
    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Could someone please Go over my bw... Let me know what yinz guys think. Happy to hear the feed back and curious at the same time

  38. #38
    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sox View Post
    Through studying philosophy for a good many years (the philosophy which the article I mention is based on), I've learned some central things about the human mind . One of these very revolutionary things has been the central cause of anxiety, depression and like states of mind. (And psychiatry has failed miserably because it doesn't have a clue about it. This is my educated, careful opinion.) I just finished reading an article, and an editorial comment prefacing it, that IMO makes the cause of these troubled states of mind very clear. This quote from the article, in its simplicity, speaks volumes:

    "When we are unfair to the world, we cannot let ourselves get away with it—not in terms of our own feeling and thoughts and life. We punish ourselves in various ways. One way is through nervousness, a deep ill-at-easeness. Another way we punish ourselves for contempt is through an unshakable self-dislike."

    I'd recommend you give it a read. I believe you all will see something of yourself in what it describes. I did. Its title is The Ethics of Mind.

    The Ethics of Mind / The Right of Aesthetic Realism to Be Known
    Nice yeah I like that! I appreciate your response! With the quote along I've already made a correlation. My psych appointment is on Wednesday and I am scared to death. I feel/ know I have the will power to do it on my own.

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    RUDY 6 is offline New Member
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    MyteeJ,
    In relation to what you said above, do you feel the try has helped you? Has it controlled your "tailspin"? As weird as this seems
    But what did you do to conquer yourself?

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    Rudy6, I dealt with anxiety/depression for many years prior to trt. Sometimes you have to go the med route. I did for a time. When your body or mind as it we're gets out of normal state, it needs to be re conditioned back to normal state. My anxiety/depression revolved around drug use at the time which probably conditioned me towards that state. Being that it also runs in the family I was also pre disposed which made it even tougher. That said, exercise was a really big factor in my recovery along with the meds. However, psychiatry as well as trt has docs who don't really know about that field. Not all meds work the same for everyone though, so it's a trial and error process until you hit the right combination. Exercise will definitely help. For me it was long distance running.

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