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Thread: New guy with low test trying to learn all this!

  1. #1
    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    New guy with low test trying to learn all this!

    Hi guys!

    I am new here and for the past month or so I have been trying to do some of my own research about HRT, but this is going over my head. This whole thing I am doing here, is very hard for me to post because I am a private person when it comes to things like this. In fact, this is my 5 time trying to post this, but I keep deleting it, but I'll probably make a 6th attempt. Moving on, I am not someone who looks for sympathy or empathy because I know there are others that are worse of than me. I was tough to take it or beat the hell out of it so posting and asking for help is hard for me so please bear with me.

    I will be posting my labs so if someone could explain, in non-medical, regular guy terms, what the real deal is, that would be great. My Doctor gave me the lecture, but I don't have the 7 years of medical school to understand what the hell he was talking about. Along with my labs I had a MIR done on my pituitary gland and it came back okay so from what I understand, that's not the reason for my low test and high estrogen.

    Now for the gist of it - I just had blood work done and my test is very low and my estrogen is very high so I guess I am more woman than man, ehhh, my idea of a joke that's not much of a joke. On top of all that, my HCL is low and my LCL is HIGH and I am now border line Diabetic, though I've always tried to cut out all excess sugars and carbs that I don't need.

    At 42 years old, my BMI shows me as being obese at 5'10" and 340lbs, but with a lean body mass of 250lbs. Most of my weight was gained after an accident a few years back. I am currently on the Adkins Diet and maintaining 100 net carbs daily.

    I have a member ship at my local YMCA and have been doing the treadmill for 45min a day.

    My Doctor prescribed me Testosterone Propionate in a topical cream. Each ML is 100g of TestP and I am suppose to use it everyday.

    I want to try and take advantage of the situation as much as I can. Get my Test back up to where it should be, lose this fat and gain lean muscle. From the reading that I have been doing, though confusing, Test-P is a better Test than Test-E or Test-C because there is no water weight, is that correct? But because of the way it's made, I have to take it more than Test-E or Test-C, right? Now most of what I read was for injections and not cream, does it work the same way? I also read up on front loading with something like Dianabol because it take a long time for the Test to work, is this correct? I might be getting stuff mixed up, but I took notes while I was reading so hopefully I am right. Also I read that if you use Test, you need to do a post cycle therapy of Arimidex , Clomid, Nolvadex , Anastrozol, Letrozol, and Exemestane. I asked my doctor about that and about the way the Test turns into estrogen, and since I already had high estrogen, if I would need something and they said no, but from what I have read, that doesn't sound right.

    That's about it, I think. Any help would be very welcomed.

    New guy with low test trying to learn all this!-blood-labs-page-1-12.12.13.jpgNew guy with low test trying to learn all this!-blood-labs-page-2-12.12.13.jpgNew guy with low test trying to learn all this!-lastscan.jpg
    Last edited by Victim of Age; 01-08-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  2. #2
    e1ectric is offline Junior Member
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    welcome

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    bass's Avatar
    bass is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    forget all the other shit like dianabol , nolva, clomod, etc... first things are first.

    1, keep educating yourself so you can make better decisions
    2, you need to see a TRT specialist, and if you don't mind paying out of pocket consider lowT.com, banner on the right side.
    3, your BW has no ranges and weird layout so it shard to make an assessment.
    4, hit the nutrition section as this where you need to start.

  4. #4
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Take a look at the Finding A Doc Sticky threat at the top of this forum. If you can list that BW in your thread with ranges then we can properly review it for you. Type it if you have to. Like Bass said, without ranges it means nothing. You're doc should be very concerned with your Estrogen and you need an E2 Sensitive Assay to properly assess your level. Odds are it's very high based on the BF% you're carrying. Simply put more BF normally = higher estrogen. Reduce your E and your T will rise. This can be accomplished without added test and could have made an impact by itself.

    Did your doctor mention a cause? Other than maybe lifestyle (no offense intended) as it plays into it. Or did he simply say your low, here's your cream? Take the time to read all the sticky threads and self-educate like my friend Bass advised. You are your own advocate in this journey and you've got your work cut out for you. Remember it's a journey, not a sprint so be patient and think long term.

    Fix that BW for us and welcome to the forum.
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  5. #5
    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    forget all the other shit like dianabol , nolva, clomod, etc... first things are first.

    1, keep educating yourself so you can make better decisions
    2, you need to see a TRT specialist, and if you don't mind paying out of pocket consider lowT.com, banner on the right side.
    3, your BW has no ranges and weird layout so it shard to make an assessment.
    4, hit the nutrition section as this where you need to start.
    I have seen a TRT specialist, that's who did my blood work and gave me the Test-P script. I'm sorry about that, I thought I had made myself clear. I'm not very good at these forum things.

    So I don't need a post cycle therapy with the Test-P cream?

  6. #6
    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Take a look at the Finding A Doc Sticky threat at the top of this forum. If you can list that BW in your thread with ranges then we can properly review it for you. Type it if you have to. Like Bass said, without ranges it means nothing. You're doc should be very concerned with your Estrogen and you need an E2 Sensitive Assay to properly assess your level. Odds are it's very high based on the BF% you're carrying. Simply put more BF normally = higher estrogen. Reduce your E and your T will rise. This can be accomplished without added test and could have made an impact by itself.

    Did your doctor mention a cause? Other than maybe lifestyle (no offense intended) as it plays into it. Or did he simply say your low, here's your cream? Take the time to read all the sticky threads and self-educate like my friend Bass advised. You are your own advocate in this journey and you've got your work cut out for you. Remember it's a journey, not a sprint so be patient and think long term.

    Fix that BW for us and welcome to the forum.
    Yeah that's the only paper work they gave me. I just made a call to my Doctor, before posting this, and requested a copy with the rages. But when you say ranges, isn't there a general range that everyone goes by that show what is Low-Moderate-High and compares your results with?

    As for the estrogen, they acted like it was no big deal, but made a big deal about it being high, if that make sense. Bass said that I should not worry about the Arimidex , Clomid, Nolvadex , Anastrozol, Letrozol, and Exemestane, but doesn't that lower estrogen?

    My doctor said I need to take this Test-P cream, but said not to bother with a PCT, but the last thing I need is the Test-P turning into estrogen.

  7. #7
    kelkel's Avatar
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    TRT is for life unless you try to come off. That's why a proper diagnosis is imperative to not put yourself through this. You're shutting down your HPTA (your endogenous production) and working off of exogenous T (cream) now. No, PCT is not required unless you try to restart your system and come off supplemental Testosterone .

    What makes your doc a TRT expert if you don't mind me asking?

    Still really need to see some of your BW with ranges. Total T, Free T, SHBG, Cortisol, Prolactin, any thyroid panels, estrogen assays, etc. All are important. Many things cause low T and doc's misdiagnosis it all the time and end up putting guys on TRT which just band aids the actual underlying problem.

    One more thing, no front loading with an oral steroid . That's done on some cycles but not for TRT.
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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    TRT is for life unless you try to come off. That's why a proper diagnosis is imperative to not put yourself through this. You're shutting down your HPTA (your endogenous production) and working off of exogenous T (cream) now. No, PCT is not required unless you try to restart your system and come off supplemental Testosterone .

    What makes your doc a TRT expert if you don't mind me asking?

    Still really need to see some of your BW with ranges. Total T, Free T, SHBG, Cortisol, Prolactin, any thyroid panels, estrogen assays, etc. All are important. Many things cause low T and doc's misdiagnosis it all the time and end up putting guys on TRT which just band aids the actual underlying problem.

    One more thing, no front loading with an oral steroid. That's done on some cycles but not for TRT.
    He is an Endocrinologist.

    My thyroid is normal, I just had an MRI to see if there was any issue with my pituitary glad and it's fine, but yeah, I'm with you, I'd like to know the reason for my low test and high estrogen too, but I am on a city contract, since I've been laid off and to get them to do anything is a big PITA!

  9. #9
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Ok. Well, the title Endo means nothing when it comes to TRT. Endo's specialize mostly in metabolic diseases and diabetes, not hormones. Uro's tend to be more in tune with hormones. Best bet if looking for a title is an A4M Certified Doc. But it really just boils down to finding one who knows hormones.

    Another question. What constitutes normal for your thyroid? TSH alone is a very weak indicator of thyroid function. A full panel is needed especially when you are looking for a cause for low T. Hypothyroid is a major cause of hypogonadism. You really need TSH, T3, T4, FT3, FT4, Antibodies, RT3 and so on.

    Now, if we can see your BW victim of age we'd be cooking with gas here.
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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Ok. Well, the title Endo means nothing when it comes to TRT. Endo's specialize mostly in metabolic diseases and diabetes, not hormones. Uro's tend to be more in tune with hormones. Best bet if looking for a title is an A4M Certified Doc. But it really just boils down to finding one who knows hormones.

    Another question. What constitutes normal for your thyroid? TSH alone is a very weak indicator of thyroid function. A full panel is needed especially when you are looking for a cause for low T. Hypothyroid is a major cause of hypogonadism. You really need TSH, T3, T4, FT3, FT4, Antibodies, RT3 and so on.

    Now, if we can see your BW victim of age we'd be cooking with gas here.
    Ehhh... they (my primary) told me the Endo is the guys you want to talk to when it come to hormones.

    Yeah I put in a request for a more detailed print out of my BW.

    I had some old (2012) labs done of my TSH, T3, T4, FT3, FT4, but not sure if Antibodies, RT3 were included. I will need to locate them and scan then into my laptop. Thanks kelkel!

  11. #11
    tectime's Avatar
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    Dude pay attention to your doctor. You know he/she is a college/med school educated professional. Read as much as you can find about hrt/trt and get something to bring down your estrogen. Listen to others advise with an open mind but for GODs sake don't follow it. Free advice is worth what your paying for it( nothing) everybody is different there is no set standard. A lot of people see the same results with the same protocol but by no means are the same. Pay attention to what your body is telling you and to what your doctor is telling you and use info sources like these to think of questions you can ask your doctor.

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    NEFLRick is offline Associate Member
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    Just ask for your blood work results. Under HIPPA laws I believe you have a right to get a copy. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

    I always ask for test results no matter what the test is.

  13. #13
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tectime View Post
    Dude pay attention to your doctor. You know he/she is a college/med school educated professional. Read as much as you can find about hrt/trt and get something to bring down your estrogen. Listen to others advise with an open mind but for GODs sake don't follow it. Free advice is worth what your paying for it( nothing) everybody is different there is no set standard. A lot of people see the same results with the same protocol but by no means are the same. Pay attention to what your body is telling you and to what your doctor is telling you and use info sources like these to think of questions you can ask your doctor.
    Of course pay attention to your doctor, just don't be a lemming. Self education is key as most doctors unfortunately just do not know hormones. They receive about 4 hrs or training on them in med school. That in and of itself does not qualify them as hormone experts unless they're A4M Certified.

    Free advice worth nothing. Wow. Pretty bold statement. Free advice is pretty much a mainstay in life. I've received invaluable advice from parents to friends and family and yes, even this forum. But as you stated, all advice should be evaluated per the individual and I agree, but it doesn't necessarily mean having to pay a doctor for it.
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    I didn't say all free advice is bad. I just said consider the source. Your parents, friends, and family have a vested interest in the advice they give you (they dont want to support you for the rest of their lives) but advice on an open forum should always be researched before believing it at face value. There is a lot of very good info on here and some very intelligent people, you yourself included from what I've read that you have posted prior. There's also alot of let's say not quite as sharp folks that put out info that is out of their level of knowledge. And that can be damaging! Telling someone they don't need an ai at a certain dose, or any medical dosing, protocol, technique whatever should come from a professional person trained in hrt/trt procedures. Sure I got a lot of friends on hrt and you bet since I turned them on to the doctor and since I'm friends with the doctor they always are asking me questions and you know I tell them what I think. But I always tell them Check with ( dr. Name) he's cool he's the doc.

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    61er's Avatar
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    Welcome. Going back to your original post, i think you're confusing two different groups of people who use testosterone . The first group are people who are on testosterone replacement therapy and they post in this section. For the most part, they are on testosterone for the rest of their lives and are older. They may also take medication to control their estrogen level and to maintain testicular health. The second group typically are young and have normal testosterone levels but are looking to make huge gains in the gym by periodically supplementing (cycling). Issues arrive when they stop their cycles (pct). You're part of the first group, as am I. Don't get distracted by the main board. I for one, never even look at it. This section -- and the nutrition board -- should be your destinations. Also, don't be shy about posting. Almost all friendly and helpful people here.

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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tectime View Post
    I didn't say all free advice is bad. I just said consider the source. Your parents, friends, and family have a vested interest in the advice they give you (they dont want to support you for the rest of their lives) but advice on an open forum should always be researched before believing it at face value. There is a lot of very good info on here and some very intelligent people, you yourself included from what I've read that you have posted prior. There's also alot of let's say not quite as sharp folks that put out info that is out of their level of knowledge. And that can be damaging! Telling someone they don't need an ai at a certain dose, or any medical dosing, protocol, technique whatever should come from a professional person trained in hrt/trt procedures. Sure I got a lot of friends on hrt and you bet since I turned them on to the doctor and since I'm friends with the doctor they always are asking me questions and you know I tell them what I think. But I always tell them Check with ( dr. Name) he's cool he's the doc.
    Well said tectime. Thanks for clearing it up.
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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Hello Gents,

    I know it's been a good while since I've posted, but I do have an update...

    For the past 1.5 months, I've been taking a Test Prop cream that I had a compound pharm make for me. Since the Testim and Androgel didn't do a damn thing for me, I didn't give this much hope, but for $100 and 3000/ml, it was worth the try.

    Well... This stuff WORKS!

    My Pre-Test levels were 152 ng/dL (RANGE:249-836 ng/dL) and my PSA was .94 ng/mL (RANGE:0.0-4.0 ng/mL). My Post-Test was 957.9 ng/dL and my PSA was 3.59 ng/mL.

    Now due to my PSA level, my Doc wants me to see a Urologist for the in the date and a possible biopsy. WTF!!??

    The Doc did say that my PSA level will go down in 3 weeks and that I should stay off the cream for 3 months so right now I am off of it.

    My right nipple was getting sensitive so I did ask for some Adex, but he would not give it to me. I am concerned about gyno, should I be?

    So anything you guys can school me on here!?


    Oh... and I've lost 30lbs
    Last edited by Victim of Age; 04-04-2014 at 01:47 PM.

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    bass's Avatar
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    wow that's a huge jump on your PSA, I bet your E2 is through the roof and that's part of what's screwing your PSA. what else were you taking? obviously your doc seems to be clueless here since he is not bothering doing more tests, or at least do E2 test and see if you need to be treated. this is why a recommended LowT.com to a friend of mine, is to save him the misery of the roller coaster and the danger of medicine malpractice.

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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    What the hell..??!! The system wont let me post! I keep getting this damn error message about spam!!!

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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    wow that's a huge jump on your PSA, I bet your E2 is through the roof and that's part of what's screwing your PSA. what else were you taking? obviously your doc seems to be clueless here since he is not bothering doing more tests, or at least do E2 test and see if you need to be treated. this is why a recommended LowT.com to a friend of mine, is to save him the misery of the roller coaster and the danger of medicine malpractice.
    That's all I was taking, save for my high BP medication. My E2 was already high before the Test cream. The labs are in post 1. I asked for Adex and he said that would just increase my test. You have me more worried than the Doctor now. What should I do?

    EDIT: Jesus Christ! I can use Medication, but not M.E.D.S. or I'll get a spam error!

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    bass's Avatar
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    If I were you I'd see a specialist asap. Do yourself a favor and stop worrying, it won't help. When you did BW, did you abstain from sex/ejaculating for at least 48 hours? Ejaculating can temporary raise your psa.

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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    If I were you I'd see a specialist asap. Do yourself a favor and stop worrying, it won't help. When you did BW, did you abstain from sex/ejaculating for at least 48 hours? Ejaculating can temporary raise your psa.
    I am seeing a urologist at the end of the month. What kind of specialist do I need to see? As for sex, no, I didn't.

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    bass's Avatar
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    yes urologist.

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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    yes urologist.
    Thanks for all the info Bro! Should I be taking some type of PCT?

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    id say one thing at a time. lets see whats going on with your prostate then go from there.

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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    I read that if you eat tomatoes, take aspirin, and drink Pomegranate juice it will lower your PSA.

    I'll keep the thread apprised of my situation! Thanks again Bass!

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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Sorry I haven't updated this in a long while, but I've been very busy dealing with family issues.

    As for my PSA, it went back down to .94, but my doctor still wants to do a biopsy on my prostate, because my Doctor said she's never seen anything like that before, except for those that have cancer. Talk about leaving the appointment on a worrisome note :/ so... I have that scheduled for the 8th; needless to say, I am sweating bullets for that one. Has anyone had it done? Any advice, concerns or embarrassing warnings you could give a guy, lol...

    I hope this ends well :/

    I will update once the procedure is complete.
    Last edited by Victim of Age; 07-18-2014 at 05:43 PM.

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    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    Hmm... Well I guess this lost interest.

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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victim of Age View Post
    Hmm... Well I guess this lost interest.
    You're not the only one that's busy brother! I have a friend who recently informed me of prostrate issues and having multiple biopsies due to constant high psa readings. They've yet to find a cause for the high psa and all biopsies have been negative. He said the procedure was not a big deal.

    Are you aware of the use of cialis for BPH? Not sure if we discussed this or not?

    FDA approves Cialis to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia
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  30. #30
    Victim of Age is offline New Member
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    lol... Noooo... I was saying that it looks like this ran out of steam, since I haven't posted in so long

    No, haven't heard of Cialis, as a treatment. Thanks for the link!

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