No More Insurance for TRT

[Beethoven]

(Maybe this will have you guys talk about something else.) ;-)
Like
I appreciate everyone's take on this thread. It's good that though we may disagree we can do it in a professional, educated fashion. Freedom of speech at its finest. I'm going to try and keep helping and learning about trt, I don't think any of us can change what's happening now for the time being. 2sox, you're on.

[Metalject]

I am anxious to see what the middle class says when all of the costs for this thing show itself and there is a lot less money left in their bank accounts. All of those who think they are entitled to all of these handouts and who allow their IDEALS to get in the way of fiscal common sense will be the first to protest when THEY start to struggle. Its as simple as the "Waiting Game" now. In the mean time, I am just going to pour a drink and wait for the show.

However, I would like to make it clear that I do NOT want our amazing country to suffer or to become weak and fragile. I just simply have lost hope and think it will be too hard to change things without some sort of disastrous event.

The fact that median income is down $4500 hasn't pissed enough people off. And if you calculate inflation, (40kyr job) that's another $3600, a loss of $8100 that most people would have to spend working the same job 5yrs ago. (you can check any dollar amount and compare the dollars worth by year at:

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2014

Now how people cannot tell that they have this significant amount of money NOT in their pocket anymore is mind blowing. I honestly think you have to be borderline clinically retarded not to notice this. And that loss is only going to continue.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Dammit, dammit, dammit......

I stopped TRT for the past 3 weeks because the VA wanted me to show them a low number before they can treat me.

Sorry man but run from the VA Endo I have a thread explaining how just plain stupid they are and I will up date it around the 9th of this mth next week so go to my profile and seen which thread it is you will be amazed at the ignorance of some of the comments the Endo gave me and he lied and what he didn't know the answers to he as a professional Dr. actully yried to Bull $hit me . I would give you the link but I am 54 self taught on puters and relly don't know how to post the link but you can find it in my profile under subscribed threads

I was diled i nnear perfect with a 886 on HCG which if I had dropped the HCG I would have most likely tested serum levels around 700 and went back to civilian MD because VA ENdo saw no reason to tst E2 ? WTF ? Anyway he tried to convience me about how I was about to die due to not above normal just the high end of normal RBC. Also he STATED if you needed and Ai you are taking to much Test and he would never script Injection they are a death sentence ! . Now Get this after my E2 came back from my Civilian Dr. E2 was 26 and It had been 18 on ,25 EOD so I was only on .25 the day after injections for a little over 3 weeks so I am staying at .25 the day after injection and should fall right bout in at E2 of 30 and feel great on 180 mg of Cypionate . . .. underlying cause of need for high dose id high dose of opiates due to sever Trauma and RA .

NORMAL AND FEEL GOOD PROTICALL
1) I am on 90 mg every 3.5 days
2) .25 of generic adex day after injection and will be real close to 30 on E2 but will be 3 mths before I get another reading enless I can make VA Endo take it with Test next week
3) 150 iu's of HCG EVERY 3RD DAY and feel great and nuts are swinging in the wind
4) took 14 mths to get here due to DA civilian Dr. but he scripts Test and ai . . . lol Ai at 1 mg daily but zI use a pill cutter OH and inject 200 mg EOW I inject every 3.5 days
__________________________________________________ _________________________

1) Now for the last 30 days I have done as VA Dr recommended cut Test Injections to 100 mg a week almost in half today I feel zacalak - $hit ? I wanted to do this to see if I had same results as when I 1st started TRT and the highest I got on 100MG a week was 389 and civilain Dr, said you are in normal range so your fixed . . .lol I screamed and yelled and got an Ai becuse at 100 mg a week my E2 was 72
2) I go next week to VA Endo and he will take a test reading and I expect it to be ball park 400 not optiminal for me . . .The VA endo said Optiminal not important only to be in normal range ? Now stop and think of how out right stupid this statement was ?
3) He said the only treatment he would give me was a gel and he would prescribe a heavy dose for me . . .I am thinking BS I will use his DA to get all the free BW I can and lie my ass off maybe get some free gel and he don't give a shit when I feel good and come back in next mth at 700 with no HCG the week of BW
4) I had high but in normal range for RBC and he said this coud kill me but yet he refused to do a therpudic blood draw ? Really concerned about my health and well being ? NOT !
5) I was there because I had an elevated PSA a sign of possible prostate cancer he never mentiond that ?
6) I told him I had Deep Vain Thrombious a few years ago and some of my toes were numb ? He didn't give a $hit about this ?
7) Not really high to be on TRT but colertroil was 3 point high and the average of high and low puts me in normal range .
8) Type II diabetic but due to TRT and exercise and diet A1C is 5 but he didn't even comment?
9) He even made a statement that back loading passgaeway could give a false reading on BW . . .total BS he is a DA and a looser (Oh I told him that in not thise exact words but i did say his treatment for TRT was out dated and he had no idea what he was doing
10) So he said I had issues to think I knew morw about TRT than he did so now I have to go see the Shrink because I want to feel good and he said that he was not concerned with me feeling good but proper TRT treatment required no HCG and no blood donations and most of all NEVER an AI .
11) So if you have a 1/2 a day to waste and want to mess with him go if you are going to a VA DR for TRT do not waste your time Sgt Bearden USMC Vet

[Beethoven]

Sorry man but run from the VA Endo I have a thread explaining how just plain stupid they are and I will up date it around the 9th of this mth next week so go to my profile and seen which thread it is you will be amazed at the ignorance of some of the comments the Endo gave me and he lied and what he didn't know the answers to he as a professional Dr. actully yried to Bull $hit me . I would give you the link but I am 54 self taught on puters and relly don't know how to post the link but you can find it in my profile under subscribed threads

I was diled i nnear perfect with a 886 on HCG which if I had dropped the HCG I would have most likely tested serum levels around 700 and went back to civilian MD because VA ENdo saw no reason to tst E2 ? WTF ? Anyway he tried to convience me about how I was about to die due to not above normal just the high end of normal RBC. Also he STATED if you needed and Ai you are taking to much Test and he would never script Injection they are a death sentence ! . Now Get this after my E2 came back from my Civilian Dr. E2 was 26 and It had been 18 on ,25 EOD so I was only on .25 the day after injections for a little over 3 weeks so I am staying at .25 the day after injection and should fall right bout in at E2 of 30 and feel great on 180 mg of Cypionate . . .. underlying cause of need for high dose id high dose of opiates due to sever Trauma and RA .

NORMAL AND FEEL GOOD PROTICALL
1) I am on 90 mg every 3.5 days
2) .25 of generic adex day after injection and will be real close to 30 on E2 but will be 3 mths before I get another reading enless I can make VA Endo take it with Test next week
3) 150 iu's of HCG EVERY 3RD DAY and feel great and nuts are swinging in the wind
4) took 14 mths to get here due to DA civilian Dr. but he scripts Test and ai . . . lol Ai at 1 mg daily but zI use a pill cutter OH and inject 200 mg EOW I inject every 3.5 days
__________________________________________________ _________________________

1) Now for the last 30 days I have done as VA Dr recommended cut Test Injections to 100 mg a week almost in half today I feel zacalak - $hit ? I wanted to do this to see if I had same results as when I 1st started TRT and the highest I got on 100MG a week was 389 and civilain Dr, said you are in normal range so your fixed . . .lol I screamed and yelled and got an Ai becuse at 100 mg a week my E2 was 72
2) I go next week to VA Endo and he will take a test reading and I expect it to be ball park 400 not optiminal for me . . .The VA endo said Optiminal not important only to be in normal range ? Now stop and think of how out right stupid this statement was ?
3) He said the only treatment he would give me was a gel and he would prescribe a heavy dose for me . . .I am thinking BS I will use his DA to get all the free BW I can and lie my ass off maybe get some free gel and he don't give a shit when I feel good and come back in next mth at 700 with no HCG the week of BW
4) I had high but in normal range for RBC and he said this coud kill me but yet he refused to do a therpudic blood draw ? Really concerned about my health and well being ? NOT !
5) I was there because I had an elevated PSA a sign of possible prostate cancer he never mentiond that ?
6) I told him I had Deep Vain Thrombious a few years ago and some of my toes were numb ? He didn't give a $hit about this ?
7) Not really high to be on TRT but colertroil was 3 point high and the average of high and low puts me in normal range .
8) Type II diabetic but due to TRT and exercise and diet A1C is 5 but he didn't even comment?
9) He even made a statement that back loading passgaeway could give a false reading on BW . . .total BS he is a DA and a looser (Oh I told him that in not thise exact words but i did say his treatment for TRT was out dated and he had no idea what he was doing
10) So he said I had issues to think I knew morw about TRT than he did so now I have to go see the Shrink because I want to feel good and he said that he was not concerned with me feeling good but proper TRT treatment required no HCG and no blood donations and most of all NEVER an AI .
11) So if you have a 1/2 a day to waste and want to mess with him go if you are going to a VA DR for TRT do not waste your time Sgt Bearden USMC Vet [/FONT]

Don't feel bad, there are many civilian Drs who don't know trt either. My original Dr felt the same way about just being in range. Never tested free test or even estradiol. When I mentioned HCG he looked at me and said for what? It took me some time before I found my Dr now who is pretty well schooled in trt. He is also on trt, so maybe that's why he is well schooled. But here is the kicker, he's not an endo. He is a primary Dr and by luck I just happened to get new insurance where he is covered. Was going to pay out of pocket before the change. I have found in my time with the service that most of the really good Drs usually get out of the service and go private. They are not on the cutting edge as the private sector is. This has been pretty much a proven fact anywhere you look. Everyone thinks the Canadian system is the model but no one reports on the negatives of that system. Long lines, long waits, people waiting for surgery taking pills until their number is called. Sure, maybe for someone with a choice between no coverage at all and that might not seem too bad. But for those of us who are able to have elective surgery on demand or whatever procedure is needed, it will weigh heavy on us. This is not information I picked up on the internet in an article, although there was a piece on a news network some time ago, can't remember which, but is relayed directly to me by several Canadians I have met down here as well as people I personally know who spent some years in Canada. I again harp back on a high ranking Canadian official electing to have a heart procedure done in the U.S. And pay approx $20,000 to do so when it was available for no charge in his country. The media can try and spin it anyway they want by I assure you he is not ignorant or mis informed, on the contrary, he is well informed and chose not to put HIS life in their hands. We would not have that choice.

[2Sox]

(Maybe this will have you guys talk about something else.) ;-)
Like
I appreciate everyone's take on this thread. It's good that though we may disagree we can do it in a professional, educated fashion. Freedom of speech at its finest. I'm going to try and keep helping and learning about trt, I don't think any of us can change what's happening now for the time being. 2sox, you're on.

Just something I thought I'd post for good measure that ALL political strips should keep in mind. This is from Joseph Goebbels, the former Nazi minister of propaganda:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Now here we ought to substitute the word "oligarchy" for "state" because, it's common knowledge that an oligarchy is what we have firmly entrenched in this country and it is buying elections right under our noses.

On another note: I wish I was an expert on economics, on law, the ACA, so that I could knowlegeably comment on what you guys have been posting here. But unfortunately because I'm not, I'm not able to be as useful to you as I would like to be. You know that I care for and respect facts very much and I'd rather not comment unless I have them readily available. I do hope that if there are members on this forum who have been lurking on this thread, and who are knowledgeable in these areas, they would come out and contribute their comments. Remember: We have all colors of the flag here - red, blue, white...and some.

[Beethoven]

Just something I thought I'd post for good measure that ALL political strips should keep in mind. This is from Joseph Goebbels, the former Nazi minister of propaganda:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Now here we ought to substitute the word "oligarchy" for "state" because, it's common knowledge that an oligarchy is what we have firmly entrenched in this country and it is buying elections right under our noses.

On another note: I wish I was an expert on economics, on law, the ACA, so that I could knowlegeably comment on what you guys have been posting here. But unfortunately because I'm not, I'm not able to be as useful to you as I would like to be. You know that I care for and respect facts very much and I'd rather not comment unless I have them readily available. I do hope that if there are members on this forum who have been lurking on this thread, and who are knowledgeable in these areas, they would come out and contribute their comments. Remember: We have all colors of the flag here - red, blue, white...and some.

First of all, 2Sox you are a well respected member of this forum, and I in particular have learned much from you on trt and probably think very much alike on the subject. Oligarchy, can we agree that it exists on both sides of the political aisle? On the right, supposedly big oil, Haliburton, etc. on the left, Solindra, GE, global warming, climate change whatever. So to say there is money behind this yes. Pres Obama out moneyed Mitt Romney so to imply that this is a one sided affair is really nieve and not realistic. The stories you've been reading on this thread for the most part is first hand accounts. I don't think we need an economist to explain to us that the government has no place telling any particular business how, where, when and what to charge for their service or product. Consumers decide that. You are free to buy or not to buy a service or product. As long as you are not infringing upon someone else's life or liberty you have the freedom to engage in that enterprise. If an employee doesn't like a particular job, move on. If you don't have the education to move on, get it. If there are shortages of employees or skilled people to fill a position the wage goes up. If it is an unskilled position where there are 20 people standing outside your door, the wage is lower. You can't expect a guy sweeping the floor is going to make what say an engineer in the firm is making. If you don't want to be a floor sweeper, go to school. It's free. The problem with this social type of thinking is people make some very bad choices in their lives, then don't like the outcome of where it brought them and now those of us who have managed to make the right ones, or at least made up for some poor ones be responsible for them. When the government messes with the open market, the market will adjust. Do you think legalizing twelve million more people will help or hurt the job market. It will drive down the wage. So the government raises the wage, the product or service price goes up. Either way WE the consumer of that good or service will pay. When you mandate insurance coverage for companies at over forty hours, everyone now becomes part time employees. The government with all their "good intentions" always mess up the process. When the company ceases to make a profit, they close their doors and everyone there is unemployed. So now, the government has to extend unemployment benefits because it doesn't recognize IT is the problem. Who pays those unemployment benefits you ask? WE do. Nothing in life is free nor should you expect it to be. The President is not donating his salary, on the contrary he has gotten rather wealthy. So has Al Gore. So he is allowed to have an environmental foot print the size of Rhode Island because he's got money to plant a bunch of trees? Well you and I don't. Why isn't he vilified? At the end he is just another rich guy but is above scrutiny because he is on their side where Mitt Romney is an EVIL rich guy. Are we seeing the hypocrisy yet?

[kelkel]

BTW,

Good to see you Kel!!!! Man, I love seeing you here when I stop by.

Thanks BC! You've been MIA lately. Dock the boat and come back on land.....

[2Sox]

First of all, 2Sox you are a well respected member of this forum, and I in particular have learned much from you on trt and probably think very much alike on the subject. Oligarchy, can we agree that it exists on both sides of the political aisle? On the right, supposedly big oil, Haliburton, etc. on the left, Solindra, GE, global warming, climate change whatever. So to say there is money behind this yes. Pres Obama out moneyed Mitt Romney so to imply that this is a one sided affair is really nieve and not realistic. The stories you've been reading on this thread for the most part is first hand accounts. I don't think we need an economist to explain to us that the government has no place telling any particular business how, where, when and what to charge for their service or product. Consumers decide that. You are free to buy or not to buy a service or product. As long as you are not infringing upon someone else's life or liberty you have the freedom to engage in that enterprise. If an employee doesn't like a particular job, move on. If you don't have the education to move on, get it. If there are shortages of employees or skilled people to fill a position the wage goes up. If it is an unskilled position where there are 20 people standing outside your door, the wage is lower. You can't expect a guy sweeping the floor is going to make what say an engineer in the firm is making. If you don't want to be a floor sweeper, go to school. It's free. The problem with this social type of thinking is people make some very bad choices in their lives, then don't like the outcome of where it brought them and now those of us who have managed to make the right ones, or at least made up for some poor ones be responsible for them. When the government messes with the open market, the market will adjust. Do you think legalizing twelve million more people will help or hurt the job market. It will drive down the wage. So the government raises the wage, the product or service price goes up. Either way WE the consumer of that good or service will pay. When you mandate insurance coverage for companies at over forty hours, everyone now becomes part time employees. The government with all their "good intentions" always mess up the process. When the company ceases to make a profit, they close their doors and everyone there is unemployed. So now, the government has to extend unemployment benefits because it doesn't recognize IT is the problem. Who pays those unemployment benefits you ask? WE do. Nothing in life is free nor should you expect it to be. The President is not donating his salary, on the contrary he has gotten rather wealthy. So has Al Gore. So he is allowed to have an environmental foot print the size of Rhode Island because he's got money to plant a bunch of trees? Well you and I don't. Why isn't he vilified? At the end he is just another rich guy but is above scrutiny because he is on their side where Mitt Romney is an EVIL rich guy. Are we seeing the hypocrisy yet?

Keeping in mind the quote above in post #205, I'll tell you what.. I've watched Fox, I've listened to Hannity and to Rush - all with a mixture of curiosity and incredulity. I've found Hannity to be a jaw-dropping, effortless liar, and Rush to be an extremely talented manipulator of actual facts and an adroit manufacturer of others. I say this to preface my next remark.

Perhaps you and others would consider watching MSNBC for a few evenings to see the "Progressive" take on things? Or try listening to Randi Rhodes at Randirhodes.com. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after this experience. (I'd also be curious about how many would actually accept this invitation.)

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Keeping in mind the quote above in post #205, I'll tell you what.. I've watched Fox, I've listened to Hannity and to Rush - all with a mixture of curiosity and incredulity. I've found Hannity to be a jaw-dropping, effortless liar, and Rush to be an extremely talented manipulator of actual facts and an adroit manufacturer of others. I say this to preface my next remark.

Perhaps you and others would consider watching MSNBC for a few evenings to see the "Progressive" take on things? Or try listening to Randi Rhodes at Randirhodes.com. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after this experience. (I'd also be curious about how many would actually accept this invitation.)

Hello my friend 2sox MSNBC or the communist News Network (CNN) Does not corner the market on liberal nuts ! Fox has it's fair share also ! There is a little Wormy looking guy with glasses Combs he tried to make the Col look like a fool and the Col. handled himself like the gentleman he is a decorated War hero, of interviewed the respected Patriot Col. Riliey with reguards to OAS That will be the peacful presentation by private citizens to the United States Govt. on May 16th to make demands and to actually form a tribunal to Remover from office all the Govet officials Rep and Dem alike that have perverted to constitution and have actully commited treason according to the Constitution of the United States of America

[2Sox]

2sox I respect you but you are way off track here ! You offer herasay from friends as a statement and I promise you it is not a fact ! The VA offers basic medical care fore basic 1st aid and anything that requires real specialist are the Dr. who can't get a real job in the real world . I know you are a liberal and drink the Obama Kol-Aid but for Christ sake ? What real qualified Dr would work for the VA . . . because he has a heart for vets . . . .I think not and even if that is the case !! I know from hands on treatment aything that requires real spelized medicine is out sourced and sent to a real hospital !

Oh and try to receive pain management from the VA ? NOT !
Try to get TRT from the VA ? NOT !
Try to go to an appointment and get there on time and spend less that 7 hours there at the VA ? NOT !
As a vet you can live in the low rent district and be close to the VA or drive 100 + miles round trip for basic treatment ?
Is it really free when they put a banana on your ear and say you are well ?

So on that statement I am qualified to call BULL $HIT !

Buzz,
I respect what you express here. I have no doubt what you say is the truth - and you'll hear no further debate from me on this subject. Not being a veteran and not having first hand experience with the VA, I can only go on what has been related to me by my friends. I hope I made that clear. I feel bad that you've had such bad experiences there. I hope this administration and those in the future work to improve whatever is wrong at the VA. Our veterans deserve nothing less than the best care we can give them.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Buzz,
I respect what you express here. I have no doubt what you say is the truth - and you'll hear no further debate from me on this subject. Not being a veteran and not having first hand experience with the VA, I can only go on what has been related to me by my friends. I hope I made that clear. I feel bad that you've had such bad experiences there. I hope this administration and those in the future work to improve whatever is wrong at the VA. Our veterans deserve nothing less than the best care we can give them.

lol Buddy I thought you might be a warrior hater and not everyone is cut from the same cloth ! There are many codes in thr Corps that are not official USMC Memos But protect themselves is one of them live today to fight again another day and Marines are to fight for and protect those who can't protect themselves ? Oh and one is no Marine below the rank of E2 is allowed to think or use his brain only die and do as ordered

But if he get wounded is is 100% covered by Insurance

[Machdiesel]

Not getting into this whole debate, but in reality it doesn't really matter for most if Insurance covers it or not. 60-100$ for a 10ml isn't expensive. I'm not saying it's not BS, we pay our premiums and ontop of that trt isn't covered, but I'm not worried either way. Clearly the system is broke and we are are in the wrong path, but as it pertains to my trt, lol I don't care

[Beethoven]

Keeping in mind the quote above in post #205, I'll tell you what.. I've watched Fox, I've listened to Hannity and to Rush - all with a mixture of curiosity and incredulity. I've found Hannity to be a jaw-dropping, effortless liar, and Rush to be an extremely talented manipulator of actual facts and an adroit manufacturer of others. I say this to preface my next remark.

Perhaps you and others would consider watching MSNBC for a few evenings to see the "Progressive" take on things? Or try listening to Randi Rhodes at Randirhodes.com. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after this experience. (I'd also be curious about how many would actually accept this invitation.)

Yes my friend, I have watched everyone from Cris Matthews with his tingly leg to Candi Crowley, who tried to correct Mitt Romney during the debate when her facts were incorrect. Randi cant stay on the air because her show loses money. So yes even the fired Rick Sanchez trying to fence straddle down here. First I wonder if we can find some points we can agree on. 1. The media is biased one way or the other. I say this because we can agree Fox slants right, pretty much everyone else leans left. 2. The ACA was not bipartisan and wasn't even generated in the house because lack of support in your own party. So it was deemed passed via reconciliation. I wonder if we can agree on those two points. Otherwise this conversation is moot. It may sound that I think Republicans can do no wrong but that could not be further from the truth. I can call crap on both sides. I would challenge you to do some research and not blindly follow ANY of those outlets. They just serve to strengthen whichever base they cater to. So if we can agree on the two points we have something to build on. 3. Nothing in life is free, someone is paying for it. Let's start here and see where we end up.

[2Sox]

Yes my friend, I have watched everyone from Cris Matthews with his tingly leg to Candi Crowley, who tried to correct Mitt Romney during the debate when her facts were incorrect. Randi cant stay on the air because her show loses money. So yes even the fired Rick Sanchez trying to fence straddle down here. First I wonder if we can find some points we can agree on. 1. The media is biased one way or the other. I say this because we can agree Fox slants right, pretty much everyone else leans left. 2. The ACA was not bipartisan and wasn't even generated in the house because lack of support in your own party. So it was deemed passed via reconciliation. I wonder if we can agree on those two points. Otherwise this conversation is moot. It may sound that I think Republicans can do no wrong but that could not be further from the truth. I can call crap on both sides. I would challenge you to do some research and not blindly follow ANY of those outlets. They just serve to strengthen whichever base they cater to. So if we can agree on the two points we have something to build on. 3. Nothing in life is free, someone is paying for it. Let's start here and see where we end up.

Regrettably, I'll have to consider our conversation on the issue of Obamacare at an end. As I indicated previously, I haven't the information necessary to continue, and to be honest, I simply don't wish to debate it. No offense is intended by this. I'm not here to change minds - just to do my part in opening them a little. And to open mine to learn. And I have indeed learned a great deal.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Oh by the way this is not off topic if sucessful it would be the quickiest way possible to change the health care abortion as it is currently operating !

It has worked in other countries , Egypt, Syria in spite of the current administration giving arms to the Muslim Brotherrhood, Lybia, and many others have replaced corupt Governments over the past 3 years but at the cost of blood shed and it can work in this counrty ! Our Constutitions even gives the people the right to address the corupt government and present greviences.

If enough people unite and educate themselves because what Patriots for America are attempting are the rights afforded of every citizen in the United States of America and these rights are demanded to be exercised due to the actions and perversion by the House , Senate and the Executuve branches are nowhere close to the checks and balances of the way our Government was designed and is ignored by the leaders of all three brances of the current administrations of all parties, perversion of the Constitution !

Which if sucessful would over turn many if not all current Presidential Proclimations including OBOZO CARE ! Also release many of the Govt regulations and extra taxes placed on everything from meds to fuel and even cost the lives of a few owls but we could be totatlly self sufficent in non imported energy and release free enterprise and allow true capttilisim to let supply and demand work not Govt. regulated trade and taxes !!

THIS IS FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND HEARSY FROM OTHERS THAT THE VERY 1ST MONTH OF 2014 WHEN ONLY A PORTION OF OBOZO CARE WENT INTO EFFECT I AM ON FIXED INCOME AND SAVE MEDICAL BILLS EVERYWAY POSSIBLE FROM CICILIAN Dr. TO THE VA WHEN I CAN TELL THEM WHAT I NEED AND TO SUPPLY MEDICAL BASICS LIKE VISION AND HEARING AND SIMPLE BLOOD WORK AND THANK GOD BECAUSE OF THIS FORUM I NOW KNOW HOW TO READ MY BW BETTER THAN THE DR's SAD !



MY MEDICAL CARE INCREASED A LITTLE OVER 3 FOLD ? THAT IS AN INCOME OF UNDER $20K A YEAR SO PEOPLE WHO MAKE MORE PAY MORE THAN ME ! SO WHAT % OF THE LEGAL CITIZENS ARE SAVING FROM THE CHANGES IN THE US HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ?

For more factual Information Google, OAS, "Operation American Spring," Patriots for America, OAS May 16 Occupy Washington D.C

[Beethoven]

Regrettably, I'll have to consider our conversation on the issue of Obamacare at an end. As I indicated previously, I haven't the information necessary to continue, and to be honest, I simply don't wish to debate it. No offense is intended by this. I'm not here to change minds - just to do my part in opening them a little. And to open mine to learn. And I have indeed learned a great deal.

Very well, but if don't want you to mis interpret our discussion. It is not necessarily to change your mind, maybe mine. Adults discussing facts and ideas is what politics used to be about. Now it's the war on women, and all this other hyperbole and ad hominem attacks instead of debating ideas. Both sides mind you are at fault and are robbing us blind. And we can't get past our emotional commitment to these people and can't see the forest through the trees. So my point being is don't trust any of the media because they are all invested in themselves and not us. Question everything. Pres Bush was raked over the coals for spying on terrorists, (supposedly), and this administration is spying on everyone and no one cares. So where your medical records before resided exclusively with your Dr and you, now it's all going to be digital in a government data base. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you then we truly are at the end as there is no more to discuss. I don't want anyone other than my Dr or myself with my medical records. Why? It's none of their damn business. But Obamacare operates on the basis that millions of HEALTHY working adults who don't need it or often pay as you go HAVE to sign up and pay for a service they don't need so that the others may have it. And at a cheaper rate. So the government is forcing Americans to purchase a product. That is not what this country is about, and if you can't see the places this can lead to, you are blindly trusting these people. If it were a Republican president would you blindly follow or would you question them? Question all of them for government has become self serving and not serving us.

BuzzardMarineThumper..... Semper Fi brother.

[Beethoven]

We have been talking a lot of how the ACA / Obamacare has affected many of us on this thread but not many are familiar with just how this legislation was forced through. You can find all of this for yourself but this is a condensed version:

October 15, 2012
How Obamacare Became the “Law of the Land”
So how did Obamacare become a law? It’s actually pretty interesting. If you recall, the Democrats in the House weren’t able to pass their version of a Healthcare law. Because all revenue bills have to originate in the House of Representatives, the Senate found a bill that met those qualifications: HR3590, a military housing bill. They took out essentially all of the wording of it, and turned it into the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Obamacare. It gets better.
The Senate at that time had 60 Democrats, just enough to pass Obamacare. After the bill passed the Senate tho, Democrat Senator Ted Kennedy died. In his place, Massachusetts elected Republican Scott Brown. That meant that, if the House made any changes to the bill, the Senate wouldn’t have the necessary number of votes to pass the corrected bill, since they knew no Republicans would vote for Obamacare. So they made a deal with the Democrat‐controlled House of Representatives: the House would pass the Senate bill without any changes, IF the Senate agreed to pass a separate bill by the House that made changes to the Senate version of Obamacare. This second bill was called the Reconciliation Act of 2010. It made a bunch of detail changes, and added some things. So the House passed PPACA, the Senate bill, as well as their Reconciliation Act. So now PPACA was ready for the President to sign, but the Senate still needed to pass the Reconciliation Act from the House. Confused yet?
Now, remember that the Senate only had 59 votes to pass the Reconciliation Act since Republican Scott Brown replaced Democrat Ted Kennedy. In order to pass the Reconciliation Act, therefore, the Democrats in the Senate decided to change the rules. They declared that they could use the “Reconciliation Rule”—this is a different “reconciliation” than the House bill now. This rule was only used for budget item approval, so that budget items could be passed with only 51 votes in the Senate, not the usual 60. This rule was never intended to be used for legislation of the magnitude of Obamacare. Too bad... they used it anyway. So then both of the “Acts” passed both houses of Congress and were then signed by President Obama. All done by Democrats without a single Republican vote in favor of it. To quote Democrat Rep. Alcee Hastings of the House Rules Committee during the bill process: “We’re making up the rules as we go along”. They certainly couldn’t have made this law without it. How do you feel about that?

[2Sox]

We have been talking a lot of how the ACA / Obamacare has affected many of us on this thread but not many are familiar with just how this legislation was forced through. You can find all of this for yourself but this is a condensed version:

October 15, 2012
How Obamacare Became the “Law of the Land”
So how did Obamacare become a law? It’s actually pretty interesting. If you recall, the Democrats in the House weren’t able to pass their version of a Healthcare law. Because all revenue bills have to originate in the House of Representatives, the Senate found a bill that met those qualifications: HR3590, a military housing bill. They took out essentially all of the wording of it, and turned it into the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Obamacare. It gets better.
The Senate at that time had 60 Democrats, just enough to pass Obamacare. After the bill passed the Senate tho, Democrat Senator Ted Kennedy died. In his place, Massachusetts elected Republican Scott Brown. That meant that, if the House made any changes to the bill, the Senate wouldn’t have the necessary number of votes to pass the corrected bill, since they knew no Republicans would vote for Obamacare. So they made a deal with the Democrat‐controlled House of Representatives: the House would pass the Senate bill without any changes, IF the Senate agreed to pass a separate bill by the House that made changes to the Senate version of Obamacare. This second bill was called the Reconciliation Act of 2010. It made a bunch of detail changes, and added some things. So the House passed PPACA, the Senate bill, as well as their Reconciliation Act. So now PPACA was ready for the President to sign, but the Senate still needed to pass the Reconciliation Act from the House. Confused yet?
Now, remember that the Senate only had 59 votes to pass the Reconciliation Act since Republican Scott Brown replaced Democrat Ted Kennedy. In order to pass the Reconciliation Act, therefore, the Democrats in the Senate decided to change the rules. They declared that they could use the “Reconciliation Rule”—this is a different “reconciliation” than the House bill now. This rule was only used for budget item approval, so that budget items could be passed with only 51 votes in the Senate, not the usual 60. This rule was never intended to be used for legislation of the magnitude of Obamacare. Too bad... they used it anyway. So then both of the “Acts” passed both houses of Congress and were then signed by President Obama. All done by Democrats without a single Republican vote in favor of it. To quote Democrat Rep. Alcee Hastings of the House Rules Committee during the bill process: “We’re making up the rules as we go along”. They certainly couldn’t have made this law without it. How do you feel about that?

No debate, but it would be good to cite the source when you post a quote. I'm curious to know.

[Beethoven]

No debate, but it would be good to cite the source when you post a quote. I'm curious to know.

Actually I had that on my computer and don't remember the site. (It was a newspaper site from Oregon don't remember which) I only downloaded it because it was a short version. You can read the extended version on Wikipedia and it will confirm the points. But it's rather long and drawn out, but I did verify then and now. Sorry about that but I will the next time.

[Beethoven]

The long version

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[wellshii]

This country is shit.Thats all I have to say.

[2Sox]

This country is shit.Thats all I have to say.

Too bad you decided on this as your first post. How long have you been around? Never mind.

There is a solution to your concern, however. Make sure your passport is up to date, pack your belongings, and buy a one way ticket to a country where you believe you can do better.

[Metalject]

Too bad you decided on this as your first post. How long have you been around? Never mind.

There is a solution to your concern, however. Make sure your passport is up to date, pack your belongings, and buy a one way ticket to a country where you believe you can do better.

That's definitely an option, and I've often said the same thing to people. But, there's also the idea of changing the country. For example, when it all started, those that opposed British rule could have left and gone somewhere else, no one was stopping them, and some may have very well left, who knows. But it's hard to deny, America is a far cry from what it once was.

I was watching a little of the coverage of the anniversary of the Boston terror attack. They were talking about how strong the city was, how the people stood up to the terror, etc. I immediately thought, "what a load of crap." The city went on lock down, a militarized police force roamed the street and we smiled about it. It was one of the most un-American things I've ever seen.

Taxes - half the country pays 20-40% of their income to the government. That's not including all the hidden taxes, sales tax, state taxes, etc. In no way was that ever intended for the U.S. and on its basis contradicts one of the two primary reasons the U.S. became a sovereign nation.

Reason number 2 - liberty. Can anyone honestly say liberty is upheld to its fullest extent in the U.S. anymore? Is it better than a lot of other places? Of course, but that doesn't mean anything. Your money is taken, you are regulated into the ground at every turn. And heaven forbid, don't use the word God in the wrong place, you might offend someone and cause them irreversible suffering. And your opinions on anything, social matters, they better be approved or you deserve to be humiliated and made a fool. Oh, and you have low testosterone? Well we will decide how we let you handle that. That's what the U.S. is becoming "we will decide" not you, because you are not smart enough or capable of making your own decisions. How about a police force that is rapidly becoming an army that doesn't serve the people but rules the people? Most respect the police out of fear. And last but not least, our leaders, the so-called "public servants." You cannot rule over men and serve, that's the ultimate contradiction.

You can still love your country and hate what it's becoming. You still have the liberty to do that, thankfully.

[Chicagotarsier]

When asked to compute the number was 20 BILLION just in insulin and glucophage and ace inhibitors. You hit the nail on the head. Third month trt and i have cut out all diabetic meds minus glucophage and working my arse off to drop it soon via weight loss. It is not just facilitated by USA it is Big Pharma. Half the insulin sold int he USA is long acting and comes from Europe (Lantus) with much of the glucophage coming from there also.

No no, see there is BIG money to be made due to Obesity, diabetes, blood pressure and especially cholesterol.

With HRT it many times lowers blood pressure, causes weight/fat loss lower cholesterol etc. They dont want to back anything that works as a cure. They want to treat the symptoms. There is more money to be made that way.

[Chicagotarsier]

No offense but horrible attitude. I had no idea on trt and no US doc pointed me toward that. Only by CHANCE and in CHINA did I learn my actual body issue is low test. Saying "I got mine and F everyone else" is very sophmoric and girl scoutish as in I sold my cookies and F you for not making quota. How many people do you suppose there are....in the USA...your brothers and sister in the country...that are being held in pain and slavery to meds they really do not need? Just a bad attitude in general to be like that from my point of view.

Not getting into this whole debate, but in reality it doesn't really matter for most if Insurance covers it or not. 60-100$ for a 10ml isn't expensive. I'm not saying it's not BS, we pay our premiums and ontop of that trt isn't covered, but I'm not worried either way. Clearly the system is broke and we are are in the wrong path, but as it pertains to my trt, lol I don't care

[Chicagotarsier]

You need to read about rex 84 and the Russian Socialist teacher implant into the school systems since the 60s. Nakita said he would defeat the USA without firing a shot...via Socialism. He is the Babe Ruth of politics. He called his shot and knocked it out of the park.

Personally you are an American if you are on American soil or not. My military career had me off US soil for all but 3-years of service. What does that have to do with anything? in 2007 just before the collapse I moved my businesses outside of the USA and started the process of leaving too. It is amazing how in China I have

MORE FREEDOM and LESS BS EXPENSE than when I was on US soil. Here are some examples.

Cell Unlimited Talk and Text and Mobile Internet Monthly.

US 80 bucks unless you go with a low cost provider with less coverage.
China 20 bucks a month

Broadband Internet 20M +
US 70 bucks a month plus tax
China 20 bucks a month period

Public Transport

Chicago 2.75 USD each way bus or train
China 20 cents train 8 cents bus with far more routs and better coverage of schedule

Now there are many things that are different between the two countries but in general it cost me 1400 USD to live in Chicago minus rent a month. In Beijing it costs 300 MAX.

As far as telling people to grab their passport and jet the USA...I did. Happier for it. Richer for it. I do not pay the tax to support the people keeping you in slavery so it is a win win. Sooner or later people int he USA will learn and get off the sofa and start burning trash in Senators and Reps yards at random hours. Until then keep handing out all the freebies and sticking the head in the dirt lol.

That's definitely an option, and I've often said the same thing to people. But, there's also the idea of changing the country. For example, when it all started, those that opposed British rule could have left and gone somewhere else, no one was stopping them, and some may have very well left, who knows. But it's hard to deny, America is a far cry from what it once was.

I was watching a little of the coverage of the anniversary of the Boston terror attack. They were talking about how strong the city was, how the people stood up to the terror, etc. I immediately thought, "what a load of crap." The city went on lock down, a militarized police force roamed the street and we smiled about it. It was one of the most un-American things I've ever seen.

Taxes - half the country pays 20-40% of their income to the government. That's not including all the hidden taxes, sales tax, state taxes, etc. In no way was that ever intended for the U.S. and on its basis contradicts one of the two primary reasons the U.S. became a sovereign nation.

Reason number 2 - liberty. Can anyone honestly say liberty is upheld to its fullest extent in the U.S. anymore? Is it better than a lot of other places? Of course, but that doesn't mean anything. Your money is taken, you are regulated into the ground at every turn. And heaven forbid, don't use the word God in the wrong place, you might offend someone and cause them irreversible suffering. And your opinions on anything, social matters, they better be approved or you deserve to be humiliated and made a fool. Oh, and you have low testosterone? Well we will decide how we let you handle that. That's what the U.S. is becoming "we will decide" not you, because you are not smart enough or capable of making your own decisions. How about a police force that is rapidly becoming an army that doesn't serve the people but rules the people? Most respect the police out of fear. And last but not least, our leaders, the so-called "public servants." You cannot rule over men and serve, that's the ultimate contradiction.

You can still love your country and hate what it's becoming. You still have the liberty to do that, thankfully.

[Black]

That's definitely an option, and I've often said the same thing to people. But, there's also the idea of changing the country. For example, when it all started, those that opposed British rule could have left and gone somewhere else, no one was stopping them, and some may have very well left, who knows. But it's hard to deny, America is a far cry from what it once was.

I was watching a little of the coverage of the anniversary of the Boston terror attack. They were talking about how strong the city was, how the people stood up to the terror, etc. I immediately thought, "what a load of crap." The city went on lock down, a militarized police force roamed the street and we smiled about it. It was one of the most un-American things I've ever seen.

Taxes - half the country pays 20-40% of their income to the government. That's not including all the hidden taxes, sales tax, state taxes, etc. In no way was that ever intended for the U.S. and on its basis contradicts one of the two primary reasons the U.S. became a sovereign nation.

Reason number 2 - liberty. Can anyone honestly say liberty is upheld to its fullest extent in the U.S. anymore? Is it better than a lot of other places? Of course, but that doesn't mean anything. Your money is taken, you are regulated into the ground at every turn. And heaven forbid, don't use the word God in the wrong place, you might offend someone and cause them irreversible suffering. And your opinions on anything, social matters, they better be approved or you deserve to be humiliated and made a fool. Oh, and you have low testosterone? Well we will decide how we let you handle that. That's what the U.S. is becoming "we will decide" not you, because you are not smart enough or capable of making your own decisions. How about a police force that is rapidly becoming an army that doesn't serve the people but rules the people? Most respect the police out of fear. And last but not least, our leaders, the so-called "public servants." You cannot rule over men and serve, that's the ultimate contradiction.

You can still love your country and hate what it's becoming. You still have the liberty to do that, thankfully.

Very well said.

[Beethoven]

Chicago, economically you are right. China isn't buying into all the BS that this country has. America was an economical giant before the socialist mind set. We have strayed far away from our Constitution and that is where the problem lies. The left doesn't like the Constitution and many have said so. One of our Justices in the Supreme Court has advised that other countries not copy our Constitution. There is our problem. Did anyone catch Joe Bidens' comment to the victims of the Boston Bombers? How it was "worth it"? It's a good thing he didn't misspell potatoe.

[Beethoven]

Also Chicago, don't kid yourself about "freedom" in China. You don't have the freedom to criticize that government out load for long. Although there is an attack on that in this country. CEO's are forced to resign for a political contribution, Dropbox is under pressure to for the removal of Condoleeza Rice from their board of directors for her political views. This from the party that preaches "tolerance". The same political people who only use the "bi partisan" term when they are the minority party. Political correctness run amuck, taxes upon taxes upon taxes. It's going to have to come to a head sometime.

[Black]

Also Chicago, don't kid yourself about "freedom" in China. You don't have the freedom to criticize that government out load for long. Although there is an attack on that in this country. CEO's are forced to resign for a political contribution, Dropbox is under pressure to for the removal of Condoleeza Rice from their board of directors for her political views. This from the party that preaches "tolerance". The same political people who only use the "bi partisan" term when they are the minority party. Political correctness run amuck, taxes upon taxes upon taxes. It's going to have to come to a head sometime.

Right there in bold. You don't even have to have any knowledge of politics in the United States to see that things are starting to boil over (or in some cases, already have). The sad part is, "we the people" control this country. But many are too afraid to stand up and say something. They let fear control them.

[Beethoven]

Anyone thinking Gov't run healthcare would be great should pay attention to what's happening with the VA.

[The_Crawfish]

Anyone thinking Gov't run healthcare would be great should pay attention to what's happening with the VA.

and medicare, and social security, and the post office, and..........................

[WestVillTom]

I've been on TRT for a year and a half, new pre-approval policy took effect this month. It's only covered if you have two blood tests of 280 or below-- my pre-treatment figures were too high but not by much

Humana announces today they will no longer cover TRT, this includes doctors visits, labs, medications, etc. Blue Cross Blue Shield soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before all follow suit. TRT is not considered a medical necessity, it is elective. While only elective for those that qualify, it's still considered elective.

[CobraMustangSVT]

I've been on TRT for a year and a half, new pre-approval policy took effect this month. It's only covered if you have two blood tests of 280 or below-- my pre-treatment figures were too high but not by much

Hi,
Can you miss a couple of doses and then just retest? If you do that, then your T levels should be low enough to qualify.

[almostgone]

I'm on a very outdated TRT, but the pre-nogotiated rates for.services between my insurance company and my primary doc. are still in effect....thus far.

[ppwc1985]

I hear so much info that just doesn't make sense. I have blue cross and they didn't cover it before, but now as of the first of the year they do. Go figure.