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Thread: 15 months in! Some adjustments made! BW results!

  1. #1
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    15 months in! Some adjustments made! BW results!

    Hi my friends,

    I started TRT early in January of 2013. The usual thing, doc doesn't know anything about trt, ordered some BW and put me on 250mg Sustenon per month and 25mg Proviron/day.
    The BW showed all values within range, with low Total Test, normal E2 and lower range LH and FSH.

    Knowing a bit more than him, my starting protocol was:
    50mg Sustenon 2x/week
    250iu HCG 2x/week (day before Test shot)
    25mg/day Proviron

    After 1 year (the doc refused to prescribe any BW in that interval the results showed normal/ high Total Test, but elevated E2 and Prolactin. At this point he told to shoot 250mg of Sustenon every three months.

    Again, knowing better, I introduced Arimidex at 0,25mg 2x/week and went to another doctor after three months. The appointment was useless as this new doctor ordered me to stop TRT cold, but anyway he prescribed some bloodwork (different lab) which was my main goal as I am doing thing by myself anyway.

    Results of all my three blood draws are in the attached file, feel free to ask any other values.

    The results of this last blood draw showed that after the Arimidex was included there was an increase in Total Test, E2 and Prolactin were significantly reduced, but some other values I need some help with.

    Blood composition:
    For the first time I have elevated Hematocrit. This I was expecting, but I was not expecting the decrease in Plateletcrit although it is just below range. The platelets are in the lower part of the range, but they have always been there. Maybe not enough hydration because at this stage my water consumption was not ideal.

    Electrolites:
    Sodium in the higher part of the interval and Potassium just above. Maybe lack of hydration again. Before they were always mid-range.

    Prolactin and Prolactin measured after 30m rest:
    There is a significant difference between these results. I am not sure which one should be the reference, I guess the one after 30m rest. Anyway a significant decreased compared with before the Arimidex.

    Total Test and Free Test:
    Total Test increased with the Arimidex to above range (the range is short compared to other labs). Free Test measured for the first time at top of the range. Maybe a dose reduction from 50mg 2x/week to 40mg 2x/week is in order. Agreed?

    SHBG:
    Measured for the first time in the lower part of the range. Is this good?

    E2:
    Reduced to a value almost too low. Maybe I will cut back to 0,25mg 1x/week. Agreed?

    ACTH and Cortisol:
    Both measured for the first time in the lower part of the range? What does it mean? Good or bad?

    DHEA-S:
    Measured for the first time in the lower part of the range. Maybe some supplementation is needed.

    DHT:
    Measured for the first time over the range. Will reduce Proviron from 25mg/day to 12,5mg/day. I am on Finastride 1,25mg 3x/week so I guess some DHT can be useful hence the Proviron.

    B-HCG:
    Measured for the first time over the range. I guess its just the HCG I am injecting.

    TSH:
    Measured mid-range. Previous measurements of T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, RT3, RT4 show no significant change during TRT.


    All in all I am satisfied with the adjustments so far. The values outside the range are borderline and not difficult to adjust. Thyroid seems fine. My only concern at this point is the possibility of Adrenal Fatigue due to the lower part of the range values of ACTH and Cortisol. What are your thoughts?

    Regarding the adjustments I am planning to make:
    Reducing Test dosage to 40mg 2x/week (previously 50mg 2x/week)
    Reducing Arimidex to 0,25mg 1x/week (previously 0,25mg 2x/week)
    Reducing Proviron to 12,5mg/week (previously 25mg/day)

    What do you say? My values are not bad so I can just reduce the Proviron. But I am not sure if it is healthy to have a top of the range value of Testosterone and a bottom of the range value of E2.
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  2. #2
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    Come on!

    No one? Any thoughts or suggestions?

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    Last bump.

    I would really appreciate if someone more knowledgeable than me would help me with my proposed changes to the protocol and my adrenal values.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugovsilva View Post
    Hi my friends,


    Blood composition:
    For the first time I have elevated Hematocrit. This I was expecting, but I was not expecting the decrease in Plateletcrit although it is just below range. The platelets are in the lower part of the range, but they have always been there. Maybe not enough hydration because at this stage my water consumption was not ideal.

    Time to give blood Hugo. Hydrate as noted.

    Electrolites:
    Sodium in the higher part of the interval and Potassium just above. Maybe lack of hydration again. Before they were always mid-range.

    Prolactin and Prolactin measured after 30m rest:
    There is a significant difference between these results. I am not sure which one should be the reference, I guess the one after 30m rest. Anyway a significant decreased compared with before the Arimidex.

    I wouldn't sweat it right now. Next testing lets see where you're at. Curious if you've ever had an MRI in the past though...

    Total Test and Free Test:
    Total Test increased with the Arimidex to above range (the range is short compared to other labs). Free Test measured for the first time at top of the range. Maybe a dose reduction from 50mg 2x/week to 40mg 2x/week is in order. Agreed?

    Maybe, maybe not. TT doesn't matter, FT does and you're right at the top where I'd want to be. Caveat is that lowering your T will help with your Hematocrit so.....probably a smart thing to do long range.

    SHBG:
    Measured for the first time in the lower part of the range. Is this good?

    It's low but not to the point of worring. More T pushes this down so your slight reduction may elevate it a little bit.

    E2:
    Reduced to a value almost too low. Maybe I will cut back to 0,25mg 1x/week. Agreed?

    Not the correct Sensitive Assay to use so it's hard to tell where you actually are. Remember you're basically using two AI's with the Proviron. It's a weak DHT which means it has AI properties on three different levels.

    ACTH and Cortisol:
    Both measured for the first time in the lower part of the range? What does it mean? Good or bad?

    Your cortisol looks fine to me assuming I'm reading it right. ACTH is on the lower end. Know that ACTH emanates from the pituitary and controls cortisol via your adrenals.

    DHEA-S:
    Measured for the first time in the lower part of the range. Maybe some supplementation is needed.

    Use a micronized product in the morning. Maybe start at 25mg until you test it again.

    DHT:
    Measured for the first time over the range. Will reduce Proviron from 25mg/day to 12,5mg/day. I am on Finastride 1,25mg 3x/week so I guess some DHT can be useful hence the Proviron.

    As stated previously Proviron's a DHT. BUT, DHT is not your enemy. It's what makes you a man. I would not stress about it as being over scale is not really that important here.

    B-HCG:
    Measured for the first time over the range. I guess its just the HCG I am injecting.

    TSH:
    Measured mid-range. Previous measurements of T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, RT3, RT4 show no significant change during TRT.

    TSH only is a weak indicator of thyroid health, as you know.


    All in all I am satisfied with the adjustments so far. The values outside the range are borderline and not difficult to adjust. Thyroid seems fine. My only concern at this point is the possibility of Adrenal Fatigue due to the lower part of the range values of ACTH and Cortisol. What are your thoughts?

    Thoughts are to not worry about just yet. Keep an eye on it.

    Regarding the adjustments I am planning to make:
    Reducing Test dosage to 40mg 2x/week (previously 50mg 2x/week)
    Reducing Arimidex to 0,25mg 1x/week (previously 0,25mg 2x/week)
    Reducing Proviron to 12,5mg/week (previously 25mg/day)

    Looks good.

    What do you say? My values are not bad so I can just reduce the Proviron. But I am not sure if it is healthy to have a top of the range value of Testosterone and a bottom of the range value of E2.
    Above in bold.

    Your E2 is not bottom of the range.
    Signing off but I'll check back on this thread tomorrow.
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    Thank Kelkel!

    I have thought about an MRI to my Pituitary due to the low output of LH and FSH (Prolactin only raised when the Estrogen was high too, before that it was normal). Let's see if I find a doctor that will prescribe. Its has been a struggle finding a doctor with a minimum of understanding of what TRT is.

    As for the rest, I will keep my protocol for now just reducing the Proviron. Next time I do bloodwork I will see what are results and go from there.

    Curious to see your remaining input.

  6. #6
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    Just be sure to give blood and keep an eye on your H & H. Sometimes a slight downward titration is all you need to help in that area.
    That's exactly how prolactin works. It follows E so when E rises so does Prolactin.
    Always good to rule out adenomas so an MRI would do you well.
    BW in another month?
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  7. #7
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    That is all the bloodwork I have for now. I think maybe in September I will be able to do it again.

    Regarding the MRI, I will try to get my doctor to prescribe it. I have insurance but have no idea about the cost. Lets see.

    Regarding the blood donation I will be out of the country for another 2 months. During that period it will be impossible to donate. I have tried myself to put a needle in my arm and just let it pour out 300ml or so, but since I only have 22g needles that will take forever. Any advice how to proceed to minimize the dangers of high Hematocrit while I am not able to give blood?

    Thanks again for all the advice!

  8. #8
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    Hydrate much better.
    Reduce dosage.
    Find a way to drain blood.

    Don't let it lead to polycythemia.
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