Will AI's stop DHEA --> Estrodial? My lab results inside...

[Kuriousjorj]

(((sorry, had to remove related links due to 'spam' filters)))

I'm still more or less self-medicating. As recommended in (another) thread, I got my thyroid checked, but haven't gotten the results yet (probably any day now).

However, I got this lab test done, and the results came in last night:

DHEA >1000 ("abnormal") Range - 102.6-416.3

Test serum - 396 ng/dL Range - 348-1197

Test free - 11.1 pg/mL Range - 6.8-21.5

Estradiol - 57.4 ("High") Range - pg/mL 7.6-42.6

So I'd been supplementing w/ DHEA, usually 3-4 pills a day (150-200 mg). I'd also taken Erase for a while, but stopped due to achy wrists. As we see, DHEA is through the roof, yet it is apparently converting to Estradiol. According to Examine.com, it will go to either Test or Estrogens "depending on the body's need."

So will an AI stop that, force it to turn to test... or do AI's not stop that conversion? Do AI's only stop test-to-estrogen, and not DHEA-to-estrogen?

[lovbyts]

I would just cut back to 2 pills a day instead of 4 and dont introduce something else (AI) into the mix unless you have to. Your E2 is not much out of range.

I cant answer your question about if AI will convert DHEA or not.

[Kuriousjorj]

I would just cut back to 2 pills a day instead of 4 and dont introduce something else (AI) into the mix unless you have to. Your E2 is not much out of range.

I cant answer your question about if AI will convert DHEA or not.

Thanks for the fast response. I'm definitely cutting back on DHEA. Might even stop it altogether for a while. Not sure what to do, besides finding a dr to give me Test cyp. No normal self-medicating method is probably gonna work. (unless an AI would force DHEA into Test)

[lancerevo]

Can't answer your question and kind of off topic, but did you notice a big difference when starting the DHEA? Did your free test go up also? I just started today as my DHEA is low and also have low test

[kelkel]

Short answer. Too much dhea can lower the effectiveness of AI's. Any AI.

[Kuriousjorj]

Can't answer your question and kind of off topic, but did you notice a big difference when starting the DHEA? Did your free test go up also? I just started today as my DHEA is low and also have low test

Eh, kinda hard to say, due to placebo effects, and also doing all sorts of other things synergistically.

I posted in another thread, that my T lvls, both free and total, doubled in 2 months. But I lost 14lbs, started lifting heavy, increased fats/cholesterols intake, selenium, etc. all leading up to the doubled T levels. Probably for 1 month before that 'after' blood work, I'd started 150mg DHEA and 2.5 weeks before, started Erase.

However, my T has been tapering back down since then. Looks like I'll have no choice then to go w/ exogenous T.

[Kuriousjorj]

Short answer. Too much dhea can lower the effectiveness of AI's. Any AI.

Darn. So a person can't just take large doses of DHEA, then take an AI to 'force' it to go only in the direction of T instead of E? That sucks. Guess that would have been too easy.

I wonder on the physiology, do AI's effect the same pathways that involve DHEA's conversion to T and E? I assume those are different than the T to E pathway?

Either way, I have a arimidex coming hopefully this week. Guess I'll do just 1 or 2 pills (50-100mg) of DHEA/ day, and try the arimidex. Will look around to guesstimate dosage. Will stay conservative. Will use for 1 month, then do blood work again. If that doesn't work, I'll be forced to go to Dr Shippen (insurance won't pay, he's a far drive, will be a hassle I imagine) and try and get professional help (ie, test cyp shots)

[lovbyts]

Why the test cyp shots? Why are you determined to go on HRT? Your levels are not that bad. 400 is not exactly in the tank so to speak.

How is your libido? Stamina? Are you getting enough sleep? Sleep makes a fairly big difference on your t levels.

I would be careful trying an AI to get your E2 levels down because you could easily lower them to much since you are not on cycle or hrt and have more problems than you do now. HRT is not the cure all answer like many think and is not much fun. I have been on it for 5 years and I still dont have it all figured out.

[Kuriousjorj]

Why the test cyp shots? Why are you determined to go on HRT? Your levels are not that bad. 400 is not exactly in the tank so to speak.

How is your libido? Stamina? Are you getting enough sleep? Sleep makes a fairly big difference on your t levels.

I would be careful trying an AI to get your E2 levels down because you could easily lower them to much since you are not on cycle or hrt and have more problems than you do now. HRT is not the cure all answer like many think and is not much fun. I have been on it for 5 years and I still dont have it all figured out.

Well, I'd prefer my T be around 700-800, and the free be correspondingly increased within it's bracket range.

Here's the thing -- I've always been set against having to use external T, having injections, etc. I used to make fun of all the 'low T talk' amongst friends, on Facebook, etc, thinking it was just drug company marketing and guys wanting an easy fix. I never considered it legit for most men til, almost on a whim, got my T tested over Xmas, and my levels were that of an 80 year old man! (literally) Then as I mentioned before, I was able to double it in 2 months, but it took work. Now that I've done research, I feel it should be higher than where it is now, without trying or taking work. (I'm certain propecia use back in the day screwed me up)

As for libido, mental state, etc., it's hard to say, as I'm stressed out w/ starting and running a personal business full-time. Planning on things easing up this summer, so that should help.

Lifting, body comp, etc. are all 'ok,' but so what? "Ok" isn't good enough, if I would be that much better if I had proper T levels. With all that I do, diet, exercise, and other stuff, I should be even better along than where I'm at. Having the T levels of a 60-year old man can't be helping.

[Kuriousjorj]

Thyroid results are normal.

TSH was 3.45 (normal 0.45-4.5),
free T4 was 1.39 (normal 0.82-1.77) and
free T3 was 2.7 (normal 2.0-4.4).


So normal Thyroid, normal LH & FSH, yet low T and high E2, though technically not 'clinically' low. (see OP)
Got the liquidex in the mail today. Thinking .3gm, 3X a week for a month, see if it brings my E2 down, re-test T and E again.

May soon need to be seeing a legit TRT doctor.

[dhickey]

Those thyroid numbers arent great. I'd start there.

[kelkel]

Those thyroid numbers arent great. I'd start there.

Bingo. TSH is a weak indicator of thyroid health. On top of that a more modern scale for it is .3 - 3.0. That changes things a bit huh? You need to run a full thyroid panel such as TSH, FT3, FT4, RT3 and Antibodies to fully assess it and make sure you're not hypothyroid. Know that hypothyroid can/will cause hypogonadism.

[BallSak]

^^^^what those two guys said. Your TSH is high and your FT3 is low. "Normal" doesn't mean sh1t.

[almostgone]

Thyroid results are normal.

TSH was 3.45 (normal 0.45-4.5),
free T4 was 1.39 (normal 0.82-1.77) and
free T3 was 2.7 (normal 2.0-4.4).


So normal Thyroid, normal LH & FSH, yet low T and high E2, though technically not 'clinically' low. (see OP)
Got the liquidex in the mail today. Thinking .3gm, 3X a week for a month, see if it brings my E2 down, re-test T and E again.

May soon need to be seeing a legit TRT doctor.

You meant mg.....right????

[Kuriousjorj]

*sigh* spam filter again -- can't post original reply

Ok, will pursue thyroid situation.

Yes, meant mg, not gm.