Is HRT for life bad?

**Audiofreak37** · 05-14-2014, 12:25 AM

This is obviously a question without an unbiased answer, but I thought I'd bring it up for debate.

Imagine someone comes online and posts their cycle, and there are some flaws in the logistics, take for example this person is too young or has a hormonal imbalance. The response always seems to be somewhere along the lines of "Do you really want to be on TRT for the rest of your life"?

Well, I don't know enough to say that I do, but from what I've read, it really seems pretty great. Now please correct me if I'm wrong- I just want to know the opinion of those on HRT... What are the downsides? I am almost completely uneducated on the subject, but apart from a few needles every month, I see increased sex drive, strength, muscle mass, and lots of other pros, with not many downsides.

This is a pretty shitty comparison, but it paints a picture none-the-less. My grandfather got his dentures recently, and he really looks great. It seems to have boosted his confidence, and he's smiling a lot (he's English, so didn't exactly have the best teeth to start

...but he says that there's nothing like your real teeth. Is it the same with testosterone ?

Thanks for reading,

~Audiofreak

PS: I thought I'd add- I'm not about to go and **** myself up with the intention or at least the option of going on HRT. I have no plans on permenantly changing how my body works at my young age.

**ppwc1985** · 05-14-2014, 12:50 AM

It is not what I dreamed I would be doing. It's not fun but I like feeling better than I did. There are a lot things to keep up with and I'm still learning. If I had things to do over I would not have cycled at all because I feel the gains I made could have been made natural but in a longer period of time. One thing it has done is make me very pro health, meaning I take more of a hand into healthcare and what I'm going to allow the dr to do.

**CobraMustangSVT** · 05-14-2014, 06:28 AM

People talk about the benefits, (increased libido, increased sex drive, more muscle mass, the cognitive changes, increased energy, etc.) and they also mention the risks (polycythemia, BPH, etc.), but nobody mentions the time and effort that you have to put in. When you're on TRT, you have to become an expert on your own care. Before TRT, I would get my CBC, lipids, liver markers, etc and the doctor would say, "good" and I would walk away happily without question. I would only go in once a year. Now, I tell him what tests I want and I ask him for the results and review them myself. I go in and get tests every few weeks to a couple of months. You have to get yourself dialed in.

You have to remember to put gel on every morning, or take a shot every week or twice a week. If you take ancillaries, you have to remember those and the timing. You have to keep up to date and really get in tune with how you feel and how different things affect you. It's alot of work and you can't walk into it blindly. You can't be lazy and depend on your doctor to do everything.

If you're the lazy or forgetful type, TRT will be hard. I was reading one of those she-male board and they had people that would miss shots, not practice sanitary measures, not bathe before slapping on Androgel , etc and they were complaining about how HRT sucks. If they were more in tune with their health, they would have had better results.

**CobraMustangSVT** · 05-14-2014, 06:33 AM

I was on shots (doc let me shoot at home and I shot twice a week. He also gave me hCG and gave me all the labs I wanted. Everything sounds great but.........I got tired of shooting myself every Tuesday night and Friday morning. Then I had to shoot hCG on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I did it for 22 weeks and got tired.

Now I'm on Androgel and I'm happier. I rub some gel on every morning and I still do the hCG. Hopefully it gets my TT levels to above 550 or so. I like this much better than the shots. Some people like the shots and don't have a problem with that. I couldn't do it any longer.

**Audiofreak37** · 05-14-2014, 06:54 AM

Wow, so it really is an illness in that regard- it becomes a large part of your life trying to juggle it all. I never really thought about that, but I guess you don't really need medical downsides to make it bad. Thanks for the input guys

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 05-14-2014, 07:13 AM

There is also the cost of treatment.
And the threat of your doctor lowering your dose or stopping your treatment.
I've recently moved to a different state and my new doctor wanted me to stop cold turkey and test my levels in 6 months.

**luciuswillson** · 05-14-2014, 07:31 AM

For me I had more issues with the doing a shot every two weeks. Now that I am on a 2x per week subq shot I don't see any bid deal in doing it. Like Dog said there is a cost. If you have good insurance it probably won't be much. I am Bluecross Bluesheild and I pay about 35$ every few months for the shots and TestC. If you didn't have insurance you would probably be paying about 25 for the shots and a few hundred for the TestC.

Also it's a pain in the ass to remember to shoot in different areas so you don't get sore.

**Beethoven** · 05-14-2014, 07:45 AM

Well if I could achieve my trt level without it, yes. It does raise your quality of life compared to having low t. But as others have said, the cost, the shots, the ancillaries and the rest is time consuming and money. It's not like I ran around hoping to be on trt someday. But that said, compared to the downside of low t, yes it's a godsend in that regard.

**CobraMustangSVT** · 05-14-2014, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

There is also the cost of treatment.
And the threat of your doctor lowering your dose or stopping your treatment.
I've recently moved to a different state and my new doctor wanted me to stop cold turkey and test my levels in 6 months.

This is true also. I went to the VA for my TRT and they made me stop to retest my levels. They wanted their own labs showing hypogonadism, even though I had 2 morning labs showing it. Another reason I went to the VA was because my doctor was an older doc and I feared that if he retired, or if I moved to a different state, I would have to start all over again and prove hypogonadism to a new doc. Let's not forget I'd have to find a doc too. With the VA, that fear is lessened, but basically, TRT is management of an illness.

**APIs** · 05-14-2014, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Beethoven

Well if I could achieve my trt level without it, yes. It does raise your quality of life compared to having low t. But as others have said, the cost, the shots, the ancillaries and the rest is time consuming and money. It's not like I ran around hoping to be on trt someday. But that said, compared to the downside of low t, yes it's a godsend in that regard.

x2. I guess it comes down to the individual and their circumstances.

For me, 4+ years in, TRT has greatly improved my life on many levels. I cannot imagine going back. However, I'm well into my 40's, established in my career and no desire for children.

Can't say if I'd feel the same way being 10 or 20 years younger. Had too much going on + limited funds...

I don't know if this could even have been feasible in my 20's or 30's. This treatment requires a lot of the patient. Responsibility, determination & a willingness to learn are all necessary attributes. If you're not committed then you shouldn't venture down this path. You see a lot of people fail for this simple reason.

People come in with a false sense they can just rub on a gel or take a shot periodically & everything will be like boner-city. Then six months later they still feel like crap & wonder why. They then stop treatment which only makes things worse from when they started.

I guess you could blame part of it on the multitude of Low-T commercials on TV these days; "Here fella, rub this Gel on your arm-pits & you'll be kayaking, sky-diving & banging the Wife again in no time!"

**CobraMustangSVT** · 05-14-2014, 09:33 AM

And please don't take this as me complaining or putting TRT down, it has done wonders for me but for you to ge the most out of it, you have to put in some work. Don't leave everything in the hands of your doctor. Do some research, ask questions and look for others going through the same thing (such as on this forum). To be honest, I think everyone should do this for any healthcare issues they might have.

One of the great things that it's done for me is that it's made me a more active person in my own healthcare and once I started seeing the changes, I became more proactive and started exercising more. I've been lifting for the past 2 years now but I never did cardio and the lifting was sporadic. Last week, I started running 2 miles a day on top of the weights and I'm more consistent now.

**Metalject** · 05-14-2014, 09:41 AM

In my opinion, the time consuming argument isn't really an argument. I take two shots of testosterone and two shots of HCG a week. I'd say it takes a grand total of two and a half minutes of my time a week. Worst case scenario maybe three and a half minutes. And yep, you have to have blood testing; walk into a lab a few times a year, 5-10min tops for a visit and leave. See the doctor 1-2 times a year; if things are going well there's really all you need. The doctor visit is the most time consuming part but it's not something that's a regular part of your daily life and there is no person alive that doesn't have time for a doctors visit. If you don't, you have such poor time management skills that low testosterone is the least of your worries.

The guy that said he could have made the gains without steroids but slower; maybe, I'm sure that applies to plenty of people but it does not apply to most who wish to be over 200lbs and lean. Of course lean is a relative term.

Long and short, TRT is not a big deal although plenty stress over it far more than they should and make it a big deal. Should you purposely cause yourself to need TRT? Of course not, but if you're going to use steroids you should assume you'll need TRT. Is that bad? In my opinion most men will greatly benefit from TRT at some point in their life; the steroid user will simply need it sooner than the non-steroid user.

**CobraMustangSVT** · 05-14-2014, 09:54 AM

What about during the dial in period?

The doc starts you out at 100mg's. You come back in 6 weeks. He sends you out for labs. You go back to him for the reading. What if your t levels are too low? Or too high? Or your E is too high? Then he's have to adjust your dosage, or add an AI. Then you come back in 6 more weeks for another office visit. Then he sends you out to the lab again. Then you come back to him for another reading. What if it's not correct this time? what if the doc doesn't test for E? What if sides come up? What if your doc retires?

Now, once your dialed in, then you come in every 6 months or a year, but until you're dialed in, you have to keep going back. Also, what if the person doesn't lead a TRT friendly lifestyle? What if they drink to an excess, or do recreational drugs, or decide they want to run a few cycles without any knowledge of the compounds or the timeframes or ancillaries? This is just my opinion, but TRT is more than just gel or shots. It's really a lifestyle change.

TRT is easy for most on this board because they seek the knowledge, but alot of people are looking to slap some gel on, take a few shots and then gain 30lbs of muscle in a year while banging like a porn star.

**jimmyinkedup** · 05-14-2014, 10:10 AM

I think for that that truly need it that it is way better than the alternative. That being said I would not do it unless it was necessary as it isnt all sunshine and flowers. Its just a vast improvemnt in quakity of life IF it was really necessary. JMO

**Audiofreak37** · 05-14-2014, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

In my opinion, the time consuming argument isn't really an argument. I take two shots of testosterone and two shots of HCG a week. I'd say it takes a grand total of two and a half minutes of my time a week. Worst case scenario maybe three and a half minutes. And yep, you have to have blood testing; walk into a lab a few times a year, 5-10min tops for a visit and leave. See the doctor 1-2 times a year; if things are going well there's really all you need. The doctor visit is the most time consuming part but it's not something that's a regular part of your daily life and there is no person alive that doesn't have time for a doctors visit. If you don't, you have such poor time management skills that low testosterone is the least of your worries.

The guy that said he could have made the gains without steroids but slower; maybe, I'm sure that applies to plenty of people but it does not apply to most who wish to be over 200lbs and lean. Of course lean is a relative term.

Long and short, TRT is not a big deal although plenty stress over it far more than they should and make it a big deal. Should you purposely cause yourself to need TRT? Of course not, but if you're going to use steroids you should assume you'll need TRT. Is that bad? In my opinion most men will greatly benefit from TRT at some point in their life; the steroid user will simply need it sooner than the non-steroid user.

Interesting take... I guess you can't realistically think that one is going to take steroids for years and just come off like it never happened.

-

So as a general consensus, it seems to be that TRT > Low T by far...but Natural T (on the higher end of the scale) > TRT in the long run.

**Metalject** · 05-14-2014, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by CobraMustangSVT

What about during the dial in period?

The doc starts you out at 100mg's. You come back in 6 weeks. He sends you out for labs. You go back to him for the reading. What if your t levels are too low? Or too high? Or your E is too high? Then he's have to adjust your dosage, or add an AI. Then you come back in 6 more weeks for another office visit. Then he sends you out to the lab again. Then you come back to him for another reading. What if it's not correct this time? what if the doc doesn't test for E? What if sides come up? What if your doc retires?

Now, once your dialed in, then you come in every 6 months or a year, but until you're dialed in, you have to keep going back. Also, what if the person doesn't lead a TRT friendly lifestyle? What if they drink to an excess, or do recreational drugs, or decide they want to run a few cycles without any knowledge of the compounds or the timeframes or ancillaries? This is just my opinion, but TRT is more than just gel or shots. It's really a lifestyle change.

TRT is easy for most on this board because they seek the knowledge, but alot of people are looking to slap some gel on, take a few shots and then gain 30lbs of muscle in a year while banging like a porn star.

Most make getting dialed in far more difficult than it is. Far more! If you're a message board guy, more than likely you are obsessed with numbers. Just to clarify, when I say "You" I'm not referring to you specifically, "You" is a general term. In my own little world I see guys bitch non-stop about E2 readings of 30-35, I mean irate about it. Ask them how they feel and they'll tell you they feel great but that they're paying for optimal treatment and demand to be in the 22-27 range. It is nothing short of clinical insanity IMO.

Anyway, more to the point - sure, you might need a couple more blood test the first year or so. Out of a 365 day year though that's a drop in the bucket. Even if you had a total of 10 blood test done in the first year, which no one would need, that is at most 2hrs total you've spent in the lab for the entire year. And if your doctor is going to require you to come see him face to face after each blood test, find another doctor.

**Times Roman** · 05-14-2014, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Audiofreak37

This is obviously a question without an unbiased answer, but I thought I'd bring it up for debate.

Imagine someone comes online and posts their cycle, and there are some flaws in the logistics, take for example this person is too young or has a hormonal imbalance. The response always seems to be somewhere along the lines of "Do you really want to be on TRT for the rest of your life"?

Well, I don't know enough to say that I do, but from what I've read, it really seems pretty great. Now please correct me if I'm wrong- I just want to know the opinion of those on HRT... What are the downsides? I am almost completely uneducated on the subject, but apart from a few needles every month, I see increased sex drive, strength, muscle mass, and lots of other pros, with not many downsides.

This is a pretty shitty comparison, but it paints a picture none-the-less. My grandfather got his dentures recently, and he really looks great. It seems to have boosted his confidence, and he's smiling a lot (he's English, so didn't exactly have the best teeth to start

...but he says that there's nothing like your real teeth. Is it the same with testosterone ?

Thanks for reading,

~Audiofreak

PS: I thought I'd add- I'm not about to go and **** myself up with the intention or at least the option of going on HRT. I have no plans on permenantly changing how my body works at my young age.

If you need HRT, that means your body will not produce sufficient testosterone for the rest of your life. So TRT for the rest of your life is a good thing.

But there are some here for some strange reason, have decent T levels and WANT to go on TRT. For them, TRT for the rest of their life is not a good thing.

---Roman

**Machdiesel** · 05-14-2014, 04:32 PM

For me and many it's a way of life. We never miss a day in the gym , our diet is meticulously thought out , and we want to look a certain way. Sure people say if I could have normal levels id prefer that , but in reality they prob would have ended up on trt anyway.

**kelkel** · 05-14-2014, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by CobraMustangSVT

gain 30lbs of muscle in a year while banging like a porn star.

Who's been spying on me? Fess up...

**rplante7** · 05-14-2014, 05:27 PM

I might add that there has been few long term studies for men on TRT

**MICKY H** · 05-15-2014, 05:44 AM

Guys, I am now 57, been on TRT for 3 years and feel great, no do it tomorrow feeling, enjoy the Gym, running biking swimming etc and feel like I have gone back 10 years plus in time. Recently married my again and she is 35 and no complaints....Yes life is good, whatever the cost its worth it...

**theheat** · 05-15-2014, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

If you need HRT, that means your body will not produce sufficient testosterone for the rest of your life. So TRT for the rest of your life is a good thing.

But there are some here for some strange reason, have decent T levels and WANT to go on TRT. For them, TRT for the rest of their life is not a good thing.

---Roman

What is a decent T level? I went to see a Dr with a total T of 403, and she started me on HCG monotherapy. I didn't feel any better after 6 weeks and asked to start TRT. Should I have waited and let the HCG/lifestyle changes work?

**Brett N** · 05-15-2014, 08:56 AM

For me, I never did any anabolics before getting on TRT. My Total was a little low but not horrible. My freeT was at the bottom. I was depressed and suffered a lot of anxiety. I was on meds for anti depression, anxiety and taking sleeping pills. This still wasn't helping and my mood swings were brutally bad. To the point of calling in sick to work, curling up in a ball and crying. I was a fn' mess.

Now, on TRT for about a year. I feel pride in myself. In my progress. In the future. I don't say to myself "If you feel like crap now, wait 5 years." I am 42 now and when I am 45 I plan to look and feel better than I do now. I get excited when my wife rubs my back and comments on the muscle gains I have had. I did not have the desire to better mnyself beofore. I do now. I have the desire and energy to use the self improvement tools I have always known.

Pinning myself 4 times a week and getting bloodwork done is nothing. It sure is a hell of a lot better than calling in sick and crying that life sucks. It's not even close to being a choice for me.

I do feel like I have to hide my stuff from my kids (I think everyone does) and nobody but my wife knows about it. I guess I don't want the stigma of people looking and judging me but I dont feel shame about it. I just don't want to have to go through the trouble of trying to explain to someone why it is a good thing. Plus, I do self treat now because of financial reasons so there is that too. But, my quality of life is mpore important to me than being 100% law abiding.

**Beethoven** · 05-15-2014, 10:43 AM

I think that trt is more suited to the guy who takes a more active role in his treatment. My biggest problem has been control of estradiol. I had it licked pretty well but a drop of 25# now threw that off. This is not a bad thing, meaning I'm slowly coming off the AI. Also coming off of bp meds as well. The thing is I've learned to listen to my body and could almost tell when estradiol is high or low. Latest bloods confirm what I was feeling. I think the guy just dropping in for a weekly shot at the Drs office I feel for the most part won't get as much as the guy who is on top of it, IMO.

**CobraMustangSVT** · 05-15-2014, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

who's been spying on me? Fess up...

lmao

**lovbyts** · 05-16-2014, 01:48 AM

It's sort of like asking a diabetic what they think of insulin . It makes you feel normal or better.

The other problem I see besides what has already been mentioned is what happens if your insurance decides not to cover it anymore? What if you loose your job for an extended period and now cant afford it or cant find a legit source? Then you start feeling like crap again but this time probably worse, get depressed, have even a harder time finding a job and the spiral down begins.

It's not a choice to take lightly for sure. The expense is not huge if covered by insurance or you can afford the $300 a month but who says those options are always going to be there? I would not choose to be on TRT if I had a choice.

**michael30** · 05-19-2014, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

Most make getting dialed in far more difficult than it is. Far more! If you're a message board guy, more than likely you are obsessed with numbers. Just to clarify, when I say "You" I'm not referring to you specifically, "You" is a general term. In my own little world I see guys bitch non-stop about E2 readings of 30-35, I mean irate about it. Ask them how they feel and they'll tell you they feel great but that they're paying for optimal treatment and demand to be in the 22-27 range. It is nothing short of clinical insanity IMO.

Anyway, more to the point - sure, you might need a couple more blood test the first year or so. Out of a 365 day year though that's a drop in the bucket. Even if you had a total of 10 blood test done in the first year, which no one would need, that is at most 2hrs total you've spent in the lab for the entire year. And if your doctor is going to require you to come see him face to face after each blood test, find another doctor.

I strongly disagree with your last to posts! Lol you make it sound so simple.

**Metalject** · 05-19-2014, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by michael30

I strongly disagree with your last to posts! Lol you make it sound so simple.

That's because it is. Sure, there are underlying issues for some that will affect things and we're all different to begin with, but TRT isn't difficult, people make it difficult. I think part of the problem, maybe the biggest problem is people have little patience. They expect everything to be perfect pretty fast or refuse to accept the fact that the phrase "dialed in" isn't a state that will last at all times. Your body changes over time. For example, when I started TRT I needed 200mg/wk. For the last year I've been at 120mg/wk...does that mean I was never dialed in all those years before? Of course not, it means things change but they rarely change rapidly.

**michael30** · 05-19-2014, 11:03 PM

Again i disagree. Its not easy for everyone. Its been a constant battle for me. Not all dr. All willing to do what is best for you. And before you say find another dr. That can be just as difficult. Waiting list for my endo was 6 months in my area.

**Metalject** · 05-20-2014, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by michael30

Again i disagree. Its not easy for everyone. Its been a constant battle for me. Not all dr. All willing to do what is best for you. And before you say find another dr. That can be just as difficult. Waiting list for my endo was 6 months in my area.

I guess "easy" is relative to how the individual perceives "easy." I'll use myself as an example. First few weeks I felt like I had a little more energy. I was coming from a total testosterone level of 63 ng/dl. After that I didn't notice much. It took a good three months, maybe a little more for me to feel like things were starting to work. It took every bit of a year to where I felt like I was back to my full self again. From there its simply been about maintaining good levels. Sure, dosing adjustments occurred but not frequently. I think a lot of guys would do a whole lot better if they let things settle in for awhile rather than changing things up all the time the first year or so. That doesn't mean changes are not ever needed, but not in the sense that many people do it.

Also, if you're in the U.S. I'd highly recommend staying away from endos. One out of ten might know what they're doing with TRT but those aren't good odds. I've said this more times than I can remember, endos are typically the worst doctors on the planet you can go to for TRT. I know that sounds strange since an endo is a hormone doctor, but most are clueless about testosterone. This can easily be proven by the countless threads and post sharing stories of terrible disappointment with endos. But, some of those same people continue to go to more and more endos, they don't learn. Try the site sponsor if you haven't yet, that's who I use and I'm happy with it.

**ppwc1985** · 05-20-2014, 12:18 AM

Agree, some ppl it will be easier than others. I was dialed in at about the 4th month. Been consistent since then. I know it's not that easy with everyone though, be patient.

**Ryanmcd** · 05-20-2014, 08:39 PM

It's super easy, pick up the phone and call a great doc, see them in a week or 2 and be done in a few months. Or dick around a few years, get mad post about it say all docs suck. Waste more co-pays and more time when you could of just spent it up front and been done.

**Metalject** · 05-20-2014, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

It's super easy, pick up the phone and call a great doc, see them in a week or 2 and be done in a few months. Or dick around a few years, get mad post about it say all docs suck. Waste more co-pays and more time when you could of just spent it up front and been done.

That sounds way to easy. Do what you want but Obama Care gonna take care of me!

**Ryanmcd** · 05-21-2014, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

That sounds way to easy. Do what you want but Obama Care gonna take care of me!

It's called cash is king, called Crisler on a Wed appt was Monday, drove 750 miles to see him, drove back home the same day, 3 months later I was all set, 3 YEARS later nothing has changed maybe going from 110 a week to 130 but that's it.

**lovbyts** · 05-21-2014, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

That sounds way to easy. Do what you want but Obama Care gonna take care of me!

hahaha yes he will. First instead of 2 weeks soon enough it will be 2 months, then there will be shortages and eventually you wont be able to get your rx refilled without signing up for PREMIUM insurance plan...

**Metalject** · 05-21-2014, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

hahaha yes he will. First instead of 2 weeks soon enough it will be 2 months, then there will be shortages and eventually you wont be able to get your rx refilled without signing up for PREMIUM insurance plan...

Oh come on now, you know that's not going to happen. Look at how amazingly they're handling the V.A. And for those that do not speak sarcasm, if you're still drinking in the Obama Care hype you are a moron.

**bethdoth** · 05-21-2014, 10:02 AM

It took me a long time to get dialed in, about 10 months. Issues I had were: the Doc started me on adrogel...it didn't absorb well, she then tried the patch same result, then I asked to go on injections. Once I started injections it took about 4 months to get dialed in. One reason it took 4 months was I discovered that sub Q injections in the belly fat didn't absorb well. Once I went to my thighs it didn't take long. I over shot my target number (were I thought I felt best) and was way high in my T and E, reduced test add an ai and was dialed in. Then I added HCG but, it had little effect on my numbers.

**Ryanmcd** · 05-21-2014, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

hahaha yes he will. First instead of 2 weeks soon enough it will be 2 months, then there will be shortages and eventually you wont be able to get your rx refilled without signing up for PREMIUM insurance plan...

Most good docs are going cash, but I like to be able to call them and go see them in less then a hour or use Skype, Hell he even sends me a text once the script is sent over. Also cash people go in front of everyone else at least at the place I go to they do.

**Swollen Quagmire** · 05-26-2014, 05:17 PM

Excellent point APIs!!

Just curious, is that you in your avatar?

**Trenchant7** · 05-26-2014, 10:04 PM

I just want to say this thread is incredibly informative. Everyone has given amazing insight into what its like to be on TRT. The OP nailed it with asking this question. It really gives a much better view of both sides of the coin. I am going to bookmark it so I never lose it.

Thanks all.

T