New Protocol. Hoping for the best

**jch3131** · 05-14-2014, 04:01 PM

If you saw my thread "fighting with docotrs" then you know what ive been going through. I went and saw the PCP today because the Endo didnt want to help me. The new doctor gave me a shot of 200mg Test in his office and prescribed 60mg/day of the topical testosterone Axiron. He told me that the shot of test will boost my levels quick and the axiron will kick in and keep me stable. He did not prescribe an AI because he said my total estrogen wasnt over the upper level (115 in a 35-155 range) He said the increase in testosterone will lower my estrogen. I still have the small gyno lumps and some pain in them. I have Ralo on hand also. He wants me back for BW in 6 weeks. One thing that concerns me is he said at my age of 26 my total test should be 500. I really would like to be in the 800 range.

Question 1- Should I take the Ralo while on this treatment for my gyno?

Question 2- Should I self prescribe some Anastrozole to manage estradiol? The doctors have never tested for it.

Question 3- IF my upcoming BW comes up in the 500s how could I get him to put me in the upper levels?

Question 4- whats everyone's thoughts on this protocol.

**xcraider37** · 05-14-2014, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by jch3131

If you saw my thread "fighting with docotrs" then you know what ive been going through. I went and saw the PCP today because the Endo didnt want to help me. The new doctor gave me a shot of 200mg Test in his office and prescribed 60mg/day of the topical testosterone Axiron. He told me that the shot of test will boost my levels quick and the axiron will kick in and keep me stable. He did not prescribe an AI because he said my total estrogen wasnt over the upper level (115 in a 35-155 range) He said the increase in testosterone will lower my estrogen. I still have the small gyno lumps and some pain in them. I have Ralo on hand also. He wants me back for BW in 6 weeks. One thing that concerns me is he said at my age of 26 my total test should be 500. I really would like to be in the 800 range.

Question 1- Should I take the Ralo while on this treatment for my gyno?

Question 2- Should I self prescribe some Anastrozole to manage estradiol? The doctors have never tested for it.

Question 3- IF my upcoming BW comes up in the 500s how could I get him to put me in the upper levels?

Question 4- whats everyone's thoughts on this protocol.

Increase testosterone will probably raise your estradiol. Generally we have our estradiol checked and not total estrogens.

While the 200 MG. shot he gave you will raise your levels fast and then go down quickly. The ongoing treatment of 60 mg of axiron probably won't get you much over 400. Just my experience with that product. Good luck to you.

**jch3131** · 05-14-2014, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by xcraider37

Increase testosterone will probably raise your estradiol. Generally we have our estradiol checked and not total estrogens.

While the 200 MG. shot he gave you will raise your levels fast and then go down quickly. The ongoing treatment of 60 mg of axiron probably won't get you much over 400. Just my experience with that product. Good luck to you.

interesting, what were your test levels before you started the axiron?

**jch3131** · 05-15-2014, 06:55 AM

Anyone have any input?

**Black** · 05-15-2014, 07:20 AM

Never used topical. But the 'increase in test will decrease estrogen' is completely false. If that were true, TRT patients would never need an AI.

With his above logic, I will have to assume that this dude is clearly misinformed on treating a testosterone deficiency.

**EverettCD** · 05-15-2014, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by jch3131

Anyone have any input?

My experience using Axiron was:
-It worked well for about 3 months to keep my Total T around 650-700 & my Free T was mid range. After 3 months my body began to not respond to the topical. I've been on injections since then & feel much better than I ever did using Axiron.
-I grew tired of applying the liquid mess to my arm pits every morning quickly. It's not the easiest task to keep it from spilling from the applicator to the floor, the side of my abdomen & my feet/shoes.
-I lost count how many times I applied the liquid then minutes later would make a run & sweat it out into my bunker gear.

Some guys really like topicals, give it a chance & see if it works for you. If not don't hesitate to have your Dr change you back to injections. I probably missed it in your post but what about HCG & estrogen monitoring/control? As your Testosterone levels increase so will your estrogen levels.

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**jch3131** · 05-15-2014, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by EverettCD

My experience using Axiron was:
-It worked well for about 3 months to keep my Total T around 650-700 & my Free T was mid range. After 3 months my body began to not respond to the topical. I've been on injections since then & feel much better than I ever did using Axiron.
-I grew tired of applying the liquid mess to my arm pits every morning quickly. It's not the easiest task to keep it from spilling from the applicator to the floor, the side of my abdomen & my feet/shoes.
-I lost count how many times I applied the liquid then minutes later would make a run & sweat it out into my bunker gear.

Some guys really like topicals, give it a chance & see if it works for you. If not don't hesitate to have your Dr change you back to injections. I probably missed it in your post but what about HCG & estrogen monitoring/control? As your Testosterone levels increase so will your estrogen levels.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China®

Thanks for sharing your experience Everett. I will give it a chance and see how it works. I have heard about experiences like yours where the gel becomes ineffective after some time. Did it just stop absorbing all together and make your levels drop? I would rather be on injections and assume that I will be on them soon due to cost of the gel. Only problem is my dr said he only gives his patients 1 shot a month and wont let them take it home to administer their own injections. I hope I could talk him into letting me take it home so I can do a 1 shot a week protocol. I travel alot for work too so it would be easier.

This doctor did not prescribe me an AI or HCG. I asked about the AI and he said that the rise in testosterone would lower the estrogen but I dont buy that. I ordered some liquiddex and was going to take .25mg every 3-4 days. As I stated I have a little gyno developing and I dont want that to get worse. Im starting Raloxifene 60mg/day to shrink the lumps.

**2Sox** · 05-15-2014, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by jch3131

Thanks for sharing your experience Everett. I will give it a chance and see how it works. I have heard about experiences like yours where the gel becomes ineffective after some time. Did it just stop absorbing all together and make your levels drop? I would rather be on injections and assume that I will be on them soon due to cost of the gel. Only problem is my dr said he only gives his patients 1 shot a month and wont let them take it home to administer their own injections. I hope I could talk him into letting me take it home so I can do a 1 shot a week protocol. I travel alot for work too so it would be easier.

This doctor did not prescribe me an AI or HCG. I asked about the AI and he said that the rise in testosterone would lower the estrogen but I dont buy that. I ordered some liquiddex and was going to take .25mg every 3-4 days. As I stated I have a little gyno developing and I dont want that to get worse. Im starting Raloxifene 60mg/day to shrink the lumps.

From my knowledge, what your doctor is doing is illegal. Since last July, the FDA has not allowed doctors to order Testosterone for their offices for administration. The must write a script for their patients. Doctors can however insist that their patients bring their T into the office for administration. A fine line that still gives the doctor the power.

Whatever the case, time to find a new doc as this one seems clueless.

**jch3131** · 05-15-2014, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

From my knowledge, what your doctor is doing is illegal. Since last July, the FDA has not allowed doctors to order Testosterone for their offices for administration. The must write a script for their patients. Doctors can however insist that their patients bring their T into the office for administration. A fine line that still gives the doctor the power.

Whatever the case, time to find a new doc as this one seems clueless.

Really? I didnt know that. Do you have a link to that info I would like to read it. Hopefully he will let me administer at home.

I honestly dont know where else to go. This is my 4th doctor. The endo before him let me take the injections home but still had a bad protocol and no AI. Im about 30 min from Tampa but not sure who to go to. I'm not sure what to do 2sox. I never dreamed it would be this hard to find a knowledgable doctor or find a doctor that will listen and actually work as a team to try things out.

**EverettCD** · 05-15-2014, 10:12 AM

My body stopped absorbing the Axiron well after a few months & my levels dropped. Between that & the very high cost of Axiron once the manufacturers coupon expired I switched to injections.

Even though you have been to four Drs I strongly suggest finding a good Dr. There's no reason why you should not be able to inject at home & be able to get a script for HCG . HCG does much more than maintain fertility & prevent testicular atrophy.

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**Metalject** · 05-15-2014, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

From my knowledge, what your doctor is doing is illegal. Since last July, the FDA has not allowed doctors to order Testosterone for their offices for administration. The must write a script for their patients. Doctors can however insist that their patients bring their T into the office for administration. A fine line that still gives the doctor the power.

Whatever the case, time to find a new doc as this one seems clueless.

It's not illegal if the doctor has a dispensary license. That's how companies like Low T Center are able to be in business. They keep the testosterone there at the office and require the patient to come in for a weekly injection.

**2Sox** · 05-15-2014, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

It's not illegal if the doctor has a dispensary license. That's how companies like Low T Center are able to be in business. They keep the testosterone there at the office and require the patient to come in for a weekly injection.

Interesting. If getting one of these was easy, I'd imagine my doctor would have one. He's the one who told me about the new FDA regulation. I'll have to ask him the next time I see him.

**Metalject** · 05-15-2014, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Interesting. If getting one of these was easy, I'd imagine my doctor would have one. He's the one who told me about the new FDA, regulation.

I'm not sure how hard it is. I do know that there are several new laws that are being put in place, several. One is that places like low t center or ageless mens health, they can normally submit one RX to the pharmacy and receive, for example, 500 bottles of testosterone . Now they'll be required to write one for each patient. Granted, the patient already has an individual RX on file at the office, but now more work is involved. I think a lot of changes are coming in the TRT world over the next year...not all good. I think you'll see prices go up and the days of these coupons long gone. That's just a guess, I could be wrong but the FDA has a pretty big hard on for testosterone right now.