HCG monotherapy max dose

**theheat** · 06-05-2014, 02:01 PM

What's the max dose for HCG monotherapy? I've heard of guys taking something like 1,500 IUs 3x a week for fertility, however I understand that Dr Crisler doesn't recommend anything over 500 IUs at a time.

I've been on 1,000 IUs 2x a week for 3 months, but I only bumped my T from 403 to 719, so I was thinking of upping the the dose to maybe to 500 IUs ED.

Also, would adding a small amount of T affect the body's response to HCG? Correct me if I'm wrong, but your HPG axis is already shut down by HCG, so any additional T shouldn't change the effectivness of HCG. I was planning on running Clomid when I finish the HCG to restart my HPGA.

**EZ E** · 06-06-2014, 10:45 AM

I don't know a lot about using just hcg for trt but I don't think you want to take too much because you can desensitize your nuts. Hcg won't necessarily shut you down, it depends on your test levels. Is a test level of 719 going to do it for you? Get some bloodwork and check your LH. This will give you some indication. Why not use clomid for trt instead of hcg if you aren't going to just use test?

**theheat** · 06-06-2014, 11:24 AM

My TT of 719 (300-1100) and my BaT of 140 (110-575) was kind of disappointing considering I was on 1,000 IUs 2x a week. Perhaps I have primary hypogonadism, as I've heard of some people's T going up in the 1,200s with that kind of dose.

My LH was something like 3.1 before I started, but I'm sure it's low now that I've been on HCG for 3 months. I plan on doing the Clomid when I finish the HCG mono, but I don't want to do Clomid for more than a month because of the sides.

I want to bring my SHBG down and increase my free and BaT, so I was thinking of increasing my dose of HCG to 2,500-3,000 IUs a week (although my nuts may be maxed out at the current dose). If that doesn't work, I was thinking of adding T cream (40mg day) in addition to the HCG just to get my TT up and force SHBG down.

**EZ E** · 06-07-2014, 01:24 PM

Why not just go to test injections and make it easy?

**theheat** · 06-07-2014, 04:19 PM

I probably will end up doing that, but I wanted to see what I get out of HCG first. A an increase of 300 in TT wasn't much for the dose if HCG I was on, so I was going to up it and go to ED, but maybe I'm maxed out and my body won't make anymore. I'll only be able to tell if I try another 4-6 weeks and an increased dose and repeat my BW.

**ironbeck** · 06-07-2014, 08:22 PM

seems like alot of work for little results

**dhickey** · 06-08-2014, 06:28 PM

What was your E2? Betting you don't need that much hcg .

**theheat** · 06-08-2014, 07:11 PM

E2 was 35 before monotherapy. I got it down to 23 with 1/4 tab of Arimidex 2x a week, even with 1,000 IUs 2x a week.

**EZ E** · 06-08-2014, 10:01 PM

If hcg isn't going to be enough at that dosage I wouldn't increase it since you don't want to run it long term at that amount. Try clomid or just go to test with hcg at 250iu 2 or 3 times per week.

**theheat** · 06-09-2014, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by EZ E

If hcg isn't going to be enough at that dosage I wouldn't increase it since you don't want to run it long term at that amount. Try clomid or just go to test with hcg at 250iu 2 or 3 times per week.

So the 1,000 IUs 2x a week that I was on is pretty much the max dose? I thought if I bumped it up a little bit and went to ED (400 IUs ED) I might still improve my numbers a little bit more to 800-900 TT. I want to finish this 10,000 IU bottle of HCG then try Clomid for a month, then retest BW. If that doesn't work I'm going to try 125mg cyp 1x a week and 250 IUs HCG 2x a week.

**EZ E** · 06-10-2014, 01:02 PM

I can't say if it will improve or not by increasing the dosage, no way to tell. I don't think you will get better results with clomid since it indirectly stimulates the testes while hcg stimulates them directly but it won't hurt to try.

**theheat** · 06-10-2014, 06:33 PM

I saw my primary care Dr yesterday, and she thought the HCG mono wouldn't work in the long run, and that eventually my levels would drop back to the 400 TT that I had when I started. I'm starting to think the same, and that more HCG isn't going to help.... I may end up just going with TRT.

**dhickey** · 06-10-2014, 08:29 PM

At 719, T is not your problem. If your free T is low and E2 is in check, you need to address SHBG.

**theheat** · 06-11-2014, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by dhickey

At 719, T is not your problem. If your free T is low and E2 is in check, you need to address SHBG.

I have 2 thoughts about my situation: #1) I can't do anything about the high SHBG, and by going on TRT I'm only replacing my body's T with injectible T, which will still be bound. #2) If I can go on a higher dose of TRT (if I can find a Dr that will write a script for 150-200mg cyp a week) I can forcendown the SHBG with higher androgen levels.

I initially thought I could achieve #2 by getting over 1,200 TT with the HCG , but I may be maxed out, and increasing the dose over 2,000 IUs a week may not help.

**Mikluz** · 06-12-2014, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by theheat

I have 2 thoughts about my situation: #1) I can't do anything about the high SHBG, and by going on TRT I'm only replacing my body's T with injectible T, which will still be bound. #2) If I can go on a higher dose of TRT (if I can find a Dr that will write a script for 150-200mg cyp a week) I can forcendown the SHBG with higher androgen levels.

I initially thought I could achieve #2 by getting over 1,200 TT with the HCG, but I may be maxed out, and increasing the dose over 2,000 IUs a week may not help.

i'm also currently on HCG monotherapy, been on about 2 months and my protocol since starting has been 500iu EOD and here are my results

S-LH 0.15 IU/L (1.5-9.3)

S-Testo 16.4 nmol/l (8.4-28.7)

S-SHBG 60.30 nmol/l (17.0-66.0)

S-E2 30 pg/ml

my SHBG went from 28 to 60 after starting NDT and HCG and i'm in same situation where you are, wondering how to get my shbg down if it persist at this level
but part of my problem might be thyroid medication since it most of the time lifts shbg up also. (my free t actually got lower while on HCG and NDT than before any medication)

didn't mean to hijack your thread but i thought maybe we can help each other.

**dhickey** · 06-13-2014, 07:58 PM

There are things you can try to get SHBG down. Just have to do a little research. I have the opposite problem, so I haven't looked into the particulars. More T is not what you need. You could probably get by with a lot less HCG .

I take 125IU every day. Total T is low 500s with Free T in the 20s. Enough to keep Free T in the top of the range.

**theheat** · 06-14-2014, 09:18 AM

I've tried the stinging nettle and tongat ali, but they haven't really brought down my SHBG, which was fine before the monotherapy. It's as if my body doubled it to keep my free T down. I feel like my only choice is to double my HCG dose and see if that will increase my total T even more and thereby force down SHBG; go on a higher dose of TRT (150mg cyp week w/500 IUs HCG); or just give up, as my high SHBG will always keep my free T down, no matter what I do.

**Mikluz** · 06-14-2014, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by theheat

I've tried the stinging nettle and tongat ali, but they haven't really brought down my SHBG, which was fine before the monotherapy. It's as if my body doubled it to keep my free T down. I feel like my only choice is to double my HCG dose and see if that will increase my total T even more and thereby force down SHBG; go on a higher dose of TRT (150mg cyp week w/500 IUs HCG); or just give up, as my high SHBG will always keep my free T down, no matter what I do.

but wouldn't doubling your HCG dose bump up your E2 too, which then raises your SHBG even more? have you checked your vitamin d level to see if getting it to optimal level would lower your shbg at least a little bit.

i believe that if nothing else works, supplementing with exogenous t will lower your SHBG, even if it takes a while.

**theheat** · 06-14-2014, 11:39 AM

My D levels were fine when I was at 1,500 IUs a day, but I have been taking 6,000 IUs a day for the last 3 months (+ 30mg zinc).

My HRT doctor keeps saying it's stress, and unless I get it under control my free T levels will never go up. She recommended meditation and herbal supplements to help with the stress.

The Dr gave me the choice of continuing monotherapy for 2 more months at 1,000 IUs 2x a week (with no AI other than DIM, however I have been taking 1/4 Arimidex on my own 2x week), but she said I would have to take a month off so my body didn't build up "antibodies" to the HCG . The alternative she proposed was 20mg day TRT cream and 125 IUs 2x week HCG, which seems like a weak dose for 250lbs.

I'm thinking of going off for a while if I can get some Clomid, or finding another HRT doctor, as the $3k+ I've paid for BW, office visits, herbal supps, HCG, etc was not worth a 10 pt rise in bioavailable T (I went from 130-140 in a 110-575 range), and I still feel like crap (low libido, ED, no motivation, slow recovery, etc)