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  1. #1
    ftts is offline New Member
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    What's going on?

    Hi all, 43 old male started trt replacement shot about 8 weeks ago. Test was in the 550 range, estrogen in the 50 range. Started with 100mg of test cyp every week and .25 adex eod. Felt better than I have in years around 4 weeks in. 6 weeks retested,test went down to 500 and estrogen crashed to 6.5. Currently I am off adex and increased my test cyp to 175 every week. Last 2 weeks have been awful, no libido, tired, no morning wood, dizzy and nausea. Am I still experiencing low e2? How long should I stay off the adex?

    Thanks,

  2. #2
    xcraider37 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftts View Post
    Hi all, 43 old male started trt replacement shot about 8 weeks ago. Test was in the 550 range, estrogen in the 50 range. Started with 100mg of test cyp every week and .25 adex eod. Felt better than I have in years around 4 weeks in. 6 weeks retested,test went down to 500 and estrogen crashed to 6.5. Currently I am off adex and increased my test cyp to 175 every week. Last 2 weeks have been awful, no libido, tired, no morning wood, dizzy and nausea. Am I still experiencing low e2? How long should I stay off the adex?

    Thanks,
    Probably still feeling the effects of the low e2. It should start to rise soon.

  3. #3
    2Sox's Avatar
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    ^^^I'm not sure I agree with this. I believe your E2 should have rebounded by now - it's been two weeks. I went down to <2 once and I felt fine within a week. If you increased your dose that much, it could be that you are experiencing a raised E2. It can happen pretty fast and the symptoms are identical to low E2.

    I've got a feeling there is a lot your are leaving out in your reporting here. Please fill us in including your free T reading.

    I also question the wisdom of raising your dose so fast and so high. Your decision or your doctor's? Whichever it was, it was a very poor move, IMO. We've all learned here the lowest dose that makes you feel good is the way to go. But you've got to go slow to find that out.

    I'd advise you get back down to 100mg/week or maybe 110mg/week. Try doing SQ and inject more frequently. You can do twice a week or break your dose into daily shots. Result is less aromatization and a steadier feeling. If you want to take an AI, I'd suggest you limit you dose of Adex to .25mg every four days or so. This is a VERY strong med.

  4. #4
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the reply. Free T was initially 10.5, then 11.1 after 6 weeks. Thinking about getting back on the Adex to see if that helps.

  5. #5
    2Sox's Avatar
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    What was the free T range?

  6. #6
    ftts is offline New Member
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    labs are at the office, however the doc said the goal was 15.

  7. #7
    2Sox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftts View Post
    labs are at the office, however the doc said the goal was 15.
    You said your initial reading was 10.5. To know what this means and if it's good or bad, you must post a range between two numbers - like 15-30. Every lab report has a range. Where in a range of numbers does your 10.5 fall? That's the important thing.

  8. #8
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Gotcha, will post that info tomorrow, thanks for the help.

  9. #9
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Free T was not listed on my labs. I called the office and they told me between 15-20 would be normal.

  10. #10
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    Am I way off base, or does anyone else find it odd that a doctor would prescribe trt to someone with natural test levels over 500?

  11. #11
    2Sox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter35 View Post
    Am I way off base, or does anyone else find it odd that a doctor would prescribe trt to someone with natural test levels over 500?
    Yes, it is odd to me. And I hope OP has more information to tell us as to the reason for it.

  12. #12
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    500 natural ..you should not be on trt
    300-1100 range u r good to go
    Free test should be between 15-50

  13. #13
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    I would be interested in the range for the total T level. 500 seems high for sure

  14. #14
    2Sox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasBody View Post
    500 natural ..you should not be on trt
    300-1100 range u r good to go
    Free test should be between 15-50
    I believe it's not responsible to make these statements. Some men do very well at 500 TT. Others would be dragging. Every individual is different and as you spend time on this forum you'll see the truth in this.

  15. #15
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rplante7 View Post
    I would be interested in the range for the total T level. 500 seems high for sure
    Range was 300-1100, However I was told to focus more on the free T which was initially 10.5 with 15-20 being normal.

  16. #16
    Chicagotarsier is offline Senior Member
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    So if he has a free test of 0 you are cool with it as long as he has a total in range?

    There is no magic number for total test and it means very little when compared to free test for the actual "issues" of lethargy, tired, etc.

    To the OP

    The majority of testosterone is inactivated in the liver and excreted by the kidneys, approximately 4% is converted to dihydrotestosterone via a reductase enzyme and 0.2% to estradiol via the enzyme aromatase. Also at 100 cyp a week your natural production shut down around week 5-7 completely. So you bottomed out your E2, you are on too low of a dose to give you a satisfactory level without natural test production, and you have DHT higher than normal to your test level. You should feel like crap like now. The additional Cyp will stack at 14-21 days depending on your pin cycle. Once the new test level is reached you should feel much better.

    Low test and no E2..miserable.
    Low test with high E2...miserable
    Good test and low E2....not as bad

    When you build the estrogen back up and feel normal your Doc should make you do blood-work to see where your E2 and test stand. 50 on an E2 sensitive assay was not indicative of needing Adex IMHO. I just went through the whole starved test transition. Once it worked out it was great.


    Total Test calculates your Estrogen Conversion.
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasBody View Post
    500 natural ..you should not be on trt
    300-1100 range u r good to go
    Free test should be between 15-50

  17. #17
    2Sox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier View Post

    So if he has a free test of 0 you are cool with it as long as he has a total in range?

    Not sure who you are directing this to but I don't recall anyone saying such.

    There is no magic number for total test and it means very little when compared to free test for the actual "issues" of lethargy, tired, etc.

    Sounds right to me. Common knowledge to those who are educated in TRT.

    Comments in BOLD.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftts View Post
    Hi all, 43 old male started trt replacement shot about 8 weeks ago. Test was in the 550 range, estrogen in the 50 range. Started with 100mg of test cyp every week and .25 adex eod. Felt better than I have in years around 4 weeks in. 6 weeks retested,test went down to 500 and estrogen crashed to 6.5. Currently I am off adex and increased my test cyp to 175 every week. Last 2 weeks have been awful, no libido, tired, no morning wood, dizzy and nausea. Am I still experiencing low e2? How long should I stay off the adex? Thanks,
    They started you on TRT with a Test in the 550 range??? what doctor are you seeing? I would ask why you are at 100 mg per week at 550....Better yet, I would ask why you are on TRT in the first place. Your E2 levels may have been out of whack causing your symptoms.. 100 mg with a base of 550 should put you upwards of 900 or more...

    When I started I was at 298 at 150mg per week, which put me at near 1100 in week 2... (since been lowered to 130mg)..

    What time are you getting tested? Test levels will be higher in the morning and lowest in the evening...

  19. #19
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikydik View Post
    They started you on TRT with a Test in the 550 range??? what doctor are you seeing? I would ask why you are at 100 mg per week at 550....Better yet, I would ask why you are on TRT in the first place. Your E2 levels may have been out of whack causing your symptoms.. 100 mg with a base of 550 should put you upwards of 900 or more... When I started I was at 298 at 150mg per week, which put me at near 1100 in week 2... (since been lowered to 130mg).. What time are you getting tested? Test levels will be higher in the morning and lowest in the evening...
    I always test at noon. First test was in the 550 range then 6 weeks later after 100 mg a week dose it dropped to 500.

  20. #20
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Went back to the Dr yesterday, he now tells me that I have an under active Thyroid and would like to see me next week to discuss medications. I have never had this condition in the past nor does it run in my family. Any idea if TRT could cause this?

  21. #21
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Dr just put on 25 MCG daily of Levothyroxine for Low Thyroid issues. Has anyone ever been on TRT and Levo at the same time?

  22. #22
    The_Crawfish is offline Associate Member
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    How did he come to the conclusion you had an under active thyroid??

  23. #23
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Crawfish View Post
    How did he come to the conclusion you had an under active thyroid??
    Based on a TSH reflex of 4.49 based on a .27 - 4.2 range. A 30 pound weight gain in 6 months helped his decision.

  24. #24
    BallSak is offline Associate Member
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    What is your free T3?

  25. #25
    ftts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallSak View Post
    What is your free T3?
    Free T 3 wasn't taken, instead he took Free T 4 which was 1.28 on a .93-1.7 range.

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