Bloodwork OK, but odd symptoms?

**SmallsMalone** · 05-30-2014, 04:02 PM

34 year old male, in good physical condition (5' 7", 148lbs, 14% bf) - but I have had all of the symptoms of Low T for the last few years: insomnia, night sweats, hot flashes, no energy, depression, little to no muscle growth, no libido, etc. But the biggest symptom was Cluster Headaches. After doing research on Cluster headaches and the extremely limited options for treatment, I discovered that TRT had success in men for ending the Cluster Headache episodes. I brought it up with my doc who agreed - sent me for a baseline blood work and put me on Test Cyp.

I got bloodwork done, and then went ahead with Test Cyp. 200 mg every 4 weeks (dr. prescribed). It took them 2.5 weeks to get the results back to me, but this is the weird part:

Total Test: 572 ng/dl
Free Test: 10.9 ng/dl

They didn't do the detailed estrogen analysis (even though it was ordered - cheeky bastards) so all I have the total estrogen: 120 pg/ml

Everything else (PSA, CBC, etc) was fine.

HEMATOCRIT: 45.6 (38.5-50.0 %)

RED BLOOD CELL COUNT : 5.05 (4.20-5.80 Million/uL)
T4, FREE : 1.5 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)
TSH : 0.98 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L)
FSH: 2.1 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH : 5.6 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
FREE PSA : 0.3 ng/mL
% FREE PSA: 25 L (>25 % (calc)) < --- they highlight this as out of range.
ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM: 120 pg/mL

DHEA, LC/MS/MS: 298 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL, LC/MS/MS: 572 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 109.8 pg/mL

But ALL of mys symptoms have started to dissipate even after only 3 weeks on the test at such a low dose. Does this seem odd to any of you guys? a completely "normal" TT count and still feeling like ass?

**SmallsMalone** · 06-02-2014, 07:10 AM

Am I asking the wrong question here? Does anyone have any interpretations of my blood work? Does it look completely normal to you guys?

**luciuswillson** · 06-02-2014, 07:54 AM

Damn that Estrogen is high. I take .5ml (100mg) testC 2x per week and my total test was 950ish and my estrogen is about 96. I thought that was high doc said not but I still got an AI (liquidx) .25mg 2x a week. If I were you I would possibly pin more frequently and talk to Doc about an AI. I am not the best for this but I hope I can help some.

**SmallsMalone** · 06-02-2014, 10:57 AM

Thanks for your reply! I thought about pinning more often. Just hate needles and am not looking forward to more sticks - but man if it would better the affects of T, then I'll go for it. I wondered if the Estrogen is high or not. I couldn't really tell - What AI works well but has lesser end side effects?

**luciuswillson** · 06-02-2014, 12:54 PM

My doc wouldn't prescribe me an AI as he said mine was in a 10-1 ration 96-960 but I have been told that is old school thinking. I got an AI off the site sponsor page and when with Liquidex

**SmallsMalone** · 06-02-2014, 05:24 PM

Thanks again mate. I'll look into Liquidex (the one from RUI right?)

**kelkel** · 06-02-2014, 07:19 PM

Smalls is your protocol really 200mg every 4 weeks?

**luciuswillson** · 06-02-2014, 08:12 PM

Smalls Ar-r site sponser

**lovbyts** · 06-03-2014, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by SmallsMalone

Thanks for your reply! I thought about pinning more often. Just hate needles and am not looking forward to more sticks - but man if it would better the affects of T, then I'll go for it. I wondered if the Estrogen is high or not. I couldn't really tell - What AI works well but has lesser end side effects?

I HATE needles also but what your doctor has you doing is OLD school and not healthy. It has your hormones on a constant roller coaster ride. Your hormones are spiking after about 4 days and then coming down after about 7 or more. The spike is causing your estrogen to also go high.

You need to pin at least 1x a week. 2x a week is better and you MIGHT not have to use an AI but by no means should you only pin once every 2 weeks.

Typical TRT is around 75mg 1x a week. Some people use a little more, some a little less. More is not better necessarily and in most cases.

What size pin do you use? You can easily start doing subQ using a 27g pin 1/2" if you do subQ You can also get away with 27g or 25G 1" if your body fat is fairly low and still do IM.

I would still order some liquidex from the sponsor in case you need it so it's on hand.

**SmallsMalone** · 06-03-2014, 03:44 PM

Yeah unfortunately my doc really has me on 200 mg every four weeks. She doesn't really know the protocols but is willing to listen to whatever I give her for information - as long as what I give her comes from the medical community in some way. Is there someplace that I can find the 1X week pin protocol? some study or physician's article?

The pin I use is 1.5 inch 23 gauge IM. Honestly it doesn't hurt at all. I'm at around 14% bodyfat, so I am hoping it's getting to the muscle on injection. I don't like pins but that one seems to get the job done with minimal discomfort.

I have REALLY been feeling the roller coaster.. seriously in the trough right now. I'm going to pick up some liquidex to help the Estrogen problems I have (prone to acne, prone to gyno). I will see if she will up my dose and the pinning frequency. I don't think she'll have an issue with it as long as I have some medical backing.

**lovbyts** · 06-04-2014, 01:08 AM

Print this out and take to her.

Your ought to try a 25g pin. It's even smaller and works just fine.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...need-know.html

**luciuswillson** · 06-04-2014, 07:04 AM

I am not really sure you need a 1.5in either. I used a 1in in gluts before I switched to subq.

**kelkel** · 06-04-2014, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by SmallsMalone

Yeah unfortunately my doc really has me on 200 mg every four weeks. She doesn't really know the protocols but is willing to listen to whatever I give her for information - as long as what I give her comes from the medical community in some way. Is there someplace that I can find the 1X week pin protocol? some study or physician's article?

The pin I use is 1.5 inch 23 gauge IM. Honestly it doesn't hurt at all. I'm at around 14% bodyfat, so I am hoping it's getting to the muscle on injection. I don't like pins but that one seems to get the job done with minimal discomfort.

I have REALLY been feeling the roller coaster.. seriously in the trough right now. I'm going to pick up some liquidex to help the Estrogen problems I have (prone to acne, prone to gyno). I will see if she will up my dose and the pinning frequency. I don't think she'll have an issue with it as long as I have some medical backing.

Well she's clueless about testosterone . It needs to be weekly at a minimum. Think of it this way: Test has a half life of about 5-7 days. A terminal life of around 14 days. That, in and of itself shows the need for weekly injections.

Buy Testosterone for Life by Morgantaler and read it. Also Testosterone, A Man's Guide by Nelson Vergel. Both good reads to continue your self-education. Hell, give one to your doc asap.

Also search up TRT, A Recipe for Success (Power Point version is the newest) by Dr. John Crisler. He's one of the countries leading specialists in the field. He used to favor creams/gels but now used SQ injections. Not sure if the power point has been updated or not.

**SmallsMalone** · 06-04-2014, 03:23 PM

Thanks everyone! I will get these sources right away. I went to get some new pins today and the only size they had was a 25g 1.5 inch. Man the thing looks like a firehose.

It's been 3 weeks since my last pin and all of my symptoms have returned, including the cluster headaches. Time to pin again. Luckily my doc admits she knows little about the protocols but is willing to go with me on whatever I find. I'm lucky with her - a lot of endo's would have looked at my 570 Total Test and told me I was fine, then sent me out the door. She listens and doesn't so much care about the numbers, but more about how I feel.

**The_Crawfish** · 06-04-2014, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by SmallsMalone

Thanks everyone! I will get these sources right away. I went to get some new pins today and the only size they had was a 25g 1.5 inch. Man the thing looks like a firehose.

It's been 3 weeks since my last pin and all of my symptoms have returned, including the cluster headaches. Time to pin again. Luckily my doc admits she knows little about the protocols but is willing to go with me on whatever I find. I'm lucky with her - a lot of endo's would have looked at my 570 Total Test and told me I was fine, then sent me out the door. She listens and doesn't so much care about the numbers, but more about how I feel.

If u've got a doc that is willing to learn, I'd stick with her. Mine didn't know all he needed to, but I've told (suggested) several things and he has listened to all of them. I also printed out some of Crisler's stuff and brought it to him. He also gave me his personal email to send future finds to.

**SmallsMalone** · 06-05-2014, 05:28 PM

My Doc called me up today and (wow!) she did the research on the protocols on her own and discovered the mistake, and adjusted me accordingly! She also suggested I pin asap to get out of the trough. I asked her about an AI, and she asked me what I want... Truthfully I have no idea - since I can get a full on prescribed AI, what would you guys suggest?

**luciuswillson** · 06-05-2014, 09:24 PM

In my opinion you should get your pinning down and do that for a few week before getting BW done to see if you need an AI. I am sure there are more people who are more knowledgeable but it would take a few weeks of pinning normally to determine if you need an AI.