Upper Level Optimal - How to Get There?

**gpetersmarck** · 07-02-2014, 08:01 PM

Hello,

I still feel somewhat new to my TRT program but have gone from mid 150 total to:

Testosterone , Total - 616 ng/dl
Free Testosterone - 186.9 ng/dl

The question(s) I'm having a hard time locating:

- what general is optimal level for those levels?
- how does one get to that point?

I'm currently on .25cc every 3.5 days of Depo.

Thanks in advance!

**Times Roman** · 07-02-2014, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by gpetersmarck

Hello,

I still feel somewhat new to my TRT program but have gone from mid 150 total to:

Testosterone , Total - 616 ng/dl
Free Testosterone - 186.9 ng/dl

The question(s) I'm having a hard time locating:

- what general is optimal level for those levels?
- how does one get to that point?

I'm currently on .25cc every 3.5 days of Depo.

Thanks in advance!

your total levels as they currently are seem reasonable
(from wiki)

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your free test levels seem high (but now I see the unit of measure is different)
(from LEF)

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**bass** · 07-02-2014, 08:24 PM

I think the OP needs to edit his post and add ranges, that test looks like its from Quest and they use different scale that labcorp.

Optimal is based on how you feel along with your BW results. what is your complete TRT protocol? and have you checked your E2?

**gpetersmarck** · 07-02-2014, 08:50 PM

Correct on my mix-up/confusion. Last test I had before this one were not with quest and had a Free T range of nanogram/dL 4.9-19.0 with my level being 16.5.

Now, using Quest, it says for Free Testosterone :
Your Value 186.9 pg/mL; In Range 35.0-155.0

For Total Testosterone:
Your value: 616 ng/dL; In Range 250-1100

I hear you on the optimal level being based on how I feel to start. From there, any concerns on the latest level of Free T shown above? I have a follow up doctors appointment Monday so just trying to be best prepared/know any additional questions I should ask during appointment. *its with new doc at same practice due to my doc moving out of town

Thanks again!

**gpetersmarck** · 07-02-2014, 08:53 PM

Sorry, just saw the question about E2. I have begun very small dosage to address latest levels:

Estradiol:
Your Value: 40 pg/dL; High above 39

**bass** · 07-03-2014, 09:38 AM

that doesn't look like a sensitive assay E2 test, but judging from that you might want to keep an eye on it. since you are new to TRT I'd say give it time. at this point you need to find out what works for you, and you may have ups and down until you get there, but you will get there if you are under the care of good/knowledgeable TRT doc.

**Low Testosterone** · 07-03-2014, 09:54 AM

Optimal is relative to the individual. Optimal means you feel good without complications. You no longer have lowT symptoms and you have no side effects associated with TRT. Where this falls number wise is going to be different for everyone. Some men need to be in the 1200 total range, while others do great in the 700-800 range.

*Do not worry about what a range says....ranges are worthless and tell us nothing....they're averages from random segments of the population.
*Do not worry about what is optimal for your friend or someone else, you're not them, you're you.

**gpetersmarck** · 07-03-2014, 12:18 PM

Thank you for the great replies - much appreciated!

**kelkel** · 07-03-2014, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by gpetersmarck

Sorry, just saw the question about E2. I have begun very small dosage to address latest levels:

Estradiol:
Your Value: 40 pg/dL; High above 39

Small dosage of what?
Your T levels look great imho.

**gpetersmarck** · 07-03-2014, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Small dosage of what?
Your T levels look great imho.

Thank you for input. Doc prescribed 1mg of Anastrozole, 2-3 times per week. Please let me know of any insight/concerns you have with this recommendation.

**Beethoven** · 07-03-2014, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by gpetersmarck

Thank you for input. Doc prescribed 1mg of Anastrozole, 2-3 times per week. Please let me know of any insight/concerns you have with this recommendation.

Wow that's a hefty dose for only being at forty. You are guaranteed to crash your E2 at that dose. Your free t is great, no need for AI at that level if not symptomatic, and especially that high a dose, IMO.

**kelkel** · 07-03-2014, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by gpetersmarck

Thank you for input. Doc prescribed 1mg of Anastrozole, 2-3 times per week. Please let me know of any insight/concerns you have with this recommendation.

OMG that's ridiculous. You do not need that in any way, shape or form. Agree with Beethoven. Just add DIM, Zinc and Copper and start there as your doc's clueless when it comes to AI's. Consider the average AI dosage for someone on a 500mg per week test cycle is .25mg EOD. That said, do you think you need 2-3mg's a week now?

**gpetersmarck** · 07-04-2014, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

OMG that's ridiculous. You do not need that in any way, shape or form. Agree with Beethoven. Just add DIM, Zinc and Copper and start there as your doc's clueless when it comes to AI's. Consider the average AI dosage for someone on a 500mg per week test cycle is .25mg EOD. That said, do you think you need 2-3mg's a week now?

Thank you both again for the great feedback. I recently had a DEXA scan and although coming down, by bodyfat was still high (20%) so I thought the E2 may be a concern so it's fair to say I was more vocal with doctor in thinking I need to address that level. As I mentioned, I do have an appointment Monday with a new doc at same office so I will speak to him about removing that drug. A few follow up questions:

- What does crashing my E2 do? I'm going to google that now but value your input.
- What E2 level would you say falls into a concerned range?
- I'll try to be brief with last one - after second DEXA scan, I showed great progress with weight and bodyfat loss. The one glaring problem though is I did shed some lean tissue also. I know this is likely due to a larger then necessary caloric deficit. That said, would my crashing E2 levels play a role in this? Would a higher T level help to prevent this?

Overall, I would say I feel better since when I started this process and my total T levels were 150. (Interesting side note, when doc first started me on a gel, my T level went down, so glad I went to injectible). The amount of days I feel great has gone from zero to some which is good. I do hope to get to a point where more days then not I do feel great. Last question tied to all of that, if I do want to increase my T levels to work towards that, what would be the next step for increasing dosage. Again, I'm currently taking .25 every 3.5days. I will ask my doctor on Monday but would love a reference point to cross check his input. Thanks again!!