Question for everyone on Testosterone Replacement Therapy

[Trenchant7]

The more I read about this endocrine / adrenal / pituitary axis system, the more I realize the real problems tend to be higher up in the chain. Whether its Pregnenolone or DHEA ... someone with failing Testosterone levels should *not* be just injecting more testosterone . There is a precursor system in place here, with a cascading effect that develops naturally. Starting with Pregnenolone.

Why have all of you that are on TRT opted to go the route of artificially adding something 5 steps down that chain, rather than going to the top of the precursor chain and supplementing there, naturally? It seems to me that it would be 1,000x safer to start taking 5-20mg of sublingual Prengenolone daily and watch the cascade of all hormone levels "beneath" that recover as a result. Or supplementing a safe low dose DHEA and watching everything below that naturally return to normal levels.

Is there something unique about your situations that this isn't the most safe, logical approach? Maybe none of you are deficient in DHEA or Pregnenolone? Everyone I know who has low T also seems to have low DHEA or Preg. If not below range, then low-normal. This is a clear sign of adrenal insufficiency and there is a much more logical approach to treating it than injecting Testosterone.

Thanks for any insight.

[Ridgback]

Not sure if this is relevant, but along those lines of thinking that since my Test was low then naturally my DHEA IGF1 etc must have taken a hit as well and thought i may need to supplement, so i had them tested 6 months into TRT and was surprised by the results.

IGF1 29 nmol/L Range 12 - 33
DHEA s 12.2 nmol/L Range 1.2 -9.0
DHT 3.3 nmol/L Range 0.7 - 5.1

Will be asking for Pregnenolone test next and hopefully discuss the use of HCG with the doc

[lancerevo]

It's not so black and white. I have deficiency in all those hormones, and I've been supplementing with preg 50mg and dhea 50mg for a couple months now and although those individual hormones have increased my test still remains low.

[Trenchant7]

Interesting thanks guys.

Still seems like the first course of action should be testing and supplementing DHEA / Preg if appropriate.

Not injecting Testosterone / HCG .

But then, DHEA and Preg can be obtained at Walgreens for a pittance. Can't make money off guys with Low Testosterone using that approach...

[hawk14dl]

I was primary. No hormonal precursor for me

[Beethoven]

Many of us here are primary and all that supplementation would still not do. Although there are some young people on here as of late trying to get on hrt, most of us would willingly love to come off had we the chance. It seems as if it's as simple as going to your local drugstore and pick up a few bottles of supplements but trust me if that were the case, this particular forum probably wouldn't be.

[JAMIE07652]

With that being said , why aren't we being treated in the way your described ?

[kelkel]

It's not so black and white. I have deficiency in all those hormones, and I've been supplementing with preg 50mg and dhea 50mg for a couple months now and although those individual hormones have increased my test still remains low.

Exactly this ^^. Needed items yes, but not nearly enough by themselves to restore function to a normal / acceptable level.

[Metalject]

If you were to do what you're saying, start with Pregnenolone and/or DHEA first, how is that any more natural or unnatural than taking testosterone ? All three are found in the body and all three are made in a lab if they're going to be taken by the body.

[testytim]

I have only one test to back this up so take it for what its worth. I am 59 years old dont know if that has anything to do with it but..Been doing hgh for about one year 1.5 ius real deal stuff serosetim Did b/w about 2 weeks ago.Day of injection test was at 707 free was slightly lower then top of the scale..i was shocked never been that high..i do 30mgs e3d sub q..

1 more thing of note my igf #s were in the tank like 60 on a scale 0-400...Now 380 on the igf#s something to think about...

[Trenchant7]

I guess Im just trying to work through my own situation by asking these things.

My LH and FSH aren't low, but my test was 269 (age 39).

My DHEA was low normal, and Preg was low normal too. Articles told me both DHEA and Preg can benefit T and E down the line... if they're low and are supplemented.

I dropped Clomid because it caused high LH and high T at only 12mg per day (normal is 50-100mg).

Did DHEA for 2-3 weeks alone. T is still up. But I get severe bouts of depression later in the day. I know its hormonal because its how I felt when my T was low.

Then I read that DHEA actually *does* shut down indegenous DHEA production.
Also crashes LH, and can shut down natural T production (as per a study and a medical website).
Thats not desirable, so I am adding the 12mg of Clomid back in with the DHEA.

Its a complicated system for sure.

[hawk14dl]

If your lh and fsh were normal and test was low, you're primary. There is no hormone that will make your testis produce more test (that's what the lh and fsh do)