Is there any professional I can pay for a comprehensive test of my blood work? HRT?

[weightpunk]

Sodium 138 mmol/L ( 135 - 145 )
Potassium 4.4 mmol/L ( 3.5 - 5.5 )
Chloride 104 mmol/L ( 95 - 110 )
Bicarb. 24 mmol/L ( 20 - 32 )
Anion Gap 10 mmol/L ( 5 - 15 )

Ca (corr) 2.44 mmol/L ( 2.10 - 2.55 )
Phosphate 1.4 mmol/L ( 0.8 - 1.5 )

Urea 5.4 mmol/L ( 3.0 - 7.5 )
Uric Acid 0.43 mmol/L ( 0.20 - 0.50 )
Creatinine H 117 umol/L ( 60 - 110 )
eGFR 74 ( >59 )

Fasting Glucose 5.1 mmol/L ( 3.6 - 6.0 )

Total Protein 77 g/L ( 66 - 83 )
Albumin 48 g/L ( 39 - 50 )
Globulin 29 g/L ( 20 - 39 )
Bilirubin H 41 umol/L ( 4 - 20 )
Alk Phos 100 U/L ( 35 - 110 )
AST 25 U/L ( 10 - 40 )
ALT 23 U/L ( 5 - 40 )
Gamma GT 18 U/L ( 5 - 50 )
LDH 137 U/L ( 120 - 250 )

Chol. 5.5 mmol/L ( 3.9 - 5.5 )
Trigs. 1.4 mmol/L ( 0.6 - 2.0 )

Iron Studies 28 umol/L ( 5 - 30 )
Magnesium 0.9 mmol/L ( 0.7 - 1.1 )
Haemolysis Index 1 ( 0 - 40 )

Thyroid Function Tests
Free T4 18.0 pmol/L ( 9.0 - 19.0 )
TSH 2.6 mIU/L ( 0.3 - 3.5 )

Gonadal Hormones
FSH 4 IU/L ( <10 )
LH 3 IU/L ( <9 )
Oestradiol 88 pmol/L ( 55 - 165 )

Prolactin 373 mIU/L ( <500 )

25-OH Vitamin D L 49 nmol/L ( 50 - 150 )

Androgens

Testosterone 23.6 nmol/L ( 11.0 - 40.0 )
SHBG 47 nmol/L ( 10.0 - 70.0 )
Calculated Free Testosterone 395 pmol/L ( 260 - 740 )

Cortisol 724 nmol/L


The first time I got tested, my Free Testosterone was 360pmol/L, two weeks later I went for a test and my free testosterone is 395pmol/L.

I am 25 years old, 75kg, 15% body fat. When I was 18 I had been working out since the age of 16 and was 81kg 11-12% body fat. I did a 12 week test enanthate cycle at 22 yrs old, and felt like shit ever since, did another 10 wk prop/anavar cycle a couple yrs later on and felt like shit after that.

I can't remember my enanthate cycle, I know I didn't use HCG but used clomid/nolva in pct.

This was my prop cycle:



I have been trying to work out for a long time now (about a yr) but can't seem, to even get the motivation to leave bed in the morning. I never assumed low test until I went to the GP and he suggested getting tested for low T and diabetes.

Description of symptoms:

- Feel like I can't get out of bed in the morning
- Thinking about going to the gym all day long but never moving
- Extremely low appetite
- Lack of desire to have sex
- Irritable and moody to those around me (it doesn't bother me, but I can tell everyone else thinks I'm very moody and irritable because they treat me like a grumpy prick)
- Very low motivation to do anything
- Suicidal thoughts on occasion and depersonalization

I look at tables on the internet in studies and it would appear I have less free testosterone than the bottom 5% of 70yr old men.

I went to a doctor and he is willing to prescribe me anything, but I just want advice a second opinion. He said I am within the "normal" range so I don't require it but he believed I would still benefit from TRT so he gave me the option of HCG/arimidex and testosterone injections. He told me to do my own research and think about it, as the laws in Australia are tight and he would need me to sign consent forms if I wanted to go onto the treatment.

[hawk14dl]

Your values look good, the test and free test are a little on the low side.

Your vitamin d appears low, I would try supplementing that, would likely raise your TT and FT levels and help you feel better

[hawk14dl]

Also, I've never cycled so I'm not positive, but I believe your pct wasn't nearly enough. You only had 2 weeks, most pct protocols are 4-6 I believe

[weightpunk]

Thanks, is there any service I can pay for online for a 1on1 personalized conversation with a doctor?

What to do about my symptoms? Anti-depressants? I tried seeing a psychologist but I can't tell you how frustrating that was I just felt like she read out of a textbook and pretty much just trying to "there there everythings ok" attitude.

[hawk14dl]

I can't advise there. Only way I know of doing that would be finding a dr and scheduling an appointment. There are some pros in the hrt business, scally I believe is one that will do those type of consultations.

But like I said, vit d is low. That could bring your T levels up and remedy the symptoms. You also didn't run a very good pct, it may just take time for you to fully recover. How long ago was that cycle by the way?

On a final note, suicidal thoughts are nothing to mess around with. They aren't a typical symptom of low t. toy should seek professional guidance for that man.

[weightpunk]

Thanks. My last cycle was January last year.

[weightpunk]

Any other opinions/comments?

I'm just thinking of just going on TRT despite test not being THAT low, I just know it will make me feel immediately better and I'd do anything at this point.

If I am on HCG , it's likely I will stay fertile right?

[lovbyts]

Yes, go to any of the many mens clinics, anti aging or using the banner to the right of your browser LowTestosterone .com

Any of them will do a full blood workup and go over the results and options with you.

Personally I think you just need to get your ass up and to the gym. The hardest part is getting there but once inside you seem to find motivation.

Also, a year is NOT a long time in scheme of things, especially when it comes to working out. 1 year is barely enough time to start to see gains.

FYI your testosterone being in the mid 300s is not bad and definitely NOT the range of a 70yr old man unless he is on TRT already or he is the healthy exception to the rule. A 70yr old man test would normally be more likely around 150 or less.

DONT just try self medication and going on TRT, that is not the answer to you problem and if nothing else you need to read ALL the stickies at the top so you will understand that TRT is not easy, not at all and it's not a cure all. TRT is a PITA to get right and in the best of circumstances it takes most people a year or more for people to get things right.

[weightpunk]

I see this table the aver 55-59 yr old man has 552 free test. The bottom 10% of 55-59 yr old men have 338 free test.

Thanks for the advice, I have been going to gym since 16 and I'm 25 now, it doesn't feel like motivation. Even when I go to the gym, I just feel depressed while working out and no motivation to continue work outs... Explain how to get this "motivation" :\ all I do is watch workout videos, read about diet and think about gym all day long... Then I go and I just feel weak, frail and no motivation to keep working out. Then before I know it it's the end of the week and I've got myself to the gym twice while being depressed about not going the other 5 days. I spend about 12hrs a day in bed, either just lying staring at the wall or wrapped up in a blanket feeling sorry for myself.

[weightpunk]

It's easy for people to say "just get your ass up and go to gym". I've got my ass up and gone to gym for a long time, almost 6 years relatively consistently. Then after my cycles it just wasn't the same, even if I go for 2-3 weeks spurts, eventually I just come crashing down and don't have energy after gym to study or see girlfriend.

I also have no sexual desire whatsoever to have sex. I've lost all drive to want to have sex. Before my cycle I would have sex daily, sometimes twice. Now it's once a fortnight if my girlfriend is lucky, and my orgasms are anti-climatic.

[weightpunk]

I think I'm just really depressed maybe I should just go back onto anti-depressents, but those ****ing things just make me feel content not going to the gym and content being a slob.

[weightpunk]

It would look like everywhere I read the average 25yr old male has test levels in the high 600s, low 700s.

I'm also not self-medicating. I have a doctor that says he will happily prescribe me TRT if I feel it helps me. He has offered testosterone injections as high to get me to the upper level of my age group and also HCG , arimidex .

[weightpunk]

I'd love to hear from anyone around the age of 20-30yrs old with less than 400 free testosterone that feels they can work out and have a healthy motivated life.

[weightpunk]

I think I'm just going to tell the doctor to please get me to highest healthy level of test and do regular bloodwork to make sure everything is ok.

Everywhere I read suggests having a testosterone level under 400 is "a free pass to hormonal hell" (Testosterone Levels - Male).

And this site:

What's A Good Testosterone Level For a Healthy, Sexually-Active Male? - Get Ripped - Get A Life

That recommends a testosterone level of 1000 +/- 100, and also shows the average level of a 25 yr old to be 670+.

Is the only reason people are saying to be careful is for the once a week injection for the rest of my life? Injections don't bother me in the slightest. What are the other reasons for not going on TRT?

[OingoBoingo]

I haven't re-read the entire thread, but have you tried some aggressive PCT? Might be a good idea to pursue that first if your doctor is willing to do anything.

[weightpunk]

I'd like to try something like that first, if it would bring my T levels above 600. Is there any chance an aggressive PCT would get me from 360-390 to 600+?

What would be such a PCT schedule?

[hawk14dl]

I'm 28 and was 390. My trt , a result of injury, not steroids . Trt changed my life


Like I mentioned earlier, your pct was not enough. Do a Google search of scallys power pct. I'm fairly certain this is what kel kel recommends after a long cycle, coming off trt, or after a cycle that had no pct.

I think if it's successful it should take you right back where you were pre cycle. If it's not successful, you'll likely need trt.

I still suggest supplementing vitamin d. even if you proceed with a pct.

[weightpunk]

Thanks hawk. I'm taking 5000iu of vit d everyday. I'll try a restart like you mentioned, hopefully it works. After everything I have read, I'd like to at least be back at 600+ bare minimum or I'm hopping on trt. Needles don't bother me and I have the money so I see no reason to have a lower quality of life just for a needle every week.

I want my sex drive back I know it's taking a toll on my girlfriend too. She's too kind to mention it to me, but I can imagine getting turned down sex 4+ times a week has got to be frustrating. I can tell she keeps trying to look better and get her nails done, get fake tan etc more and more thinking it's that I'm not attracted other but that's just bullshit because she's a 10 in my eyes.

[< <Samson> >]

How did you feel when you were on your last cycle?


Was anything improved during?

[weightpunk]

My last cycle I felt ****ing amazing. Highest levels of confidence, had sex with my girlfriend at least once a day, and went to gym at least 4 times/wk and loved it.

After my last cycle was 8 weeks and I put on 6kg and lost some body fat. Then the crash came again...

[weightpunk]

I thought that was pretty standard for a cycle though, just peak confidence, amazing gym results and super high sex drive with constant erection.

[< <Samson> >]

Kinda what I figured

It's the reason why I stay on a heavier dose. It sucks, it brings complications and a bunch of other crap with it


But, I turn into pretty much what you described with anything bellow 400mg of test per week. I tried to vary doses, all the way from right around 150mg per week to 750mg per week. The higher doses does not really do anything positive & the low dose just seems ineffective.


It sucks, I was hoping I can at least run a TRT type dose most of the time & be just fine. But, it's just not the case


My natural test numbers before cycling or trying anything were in the high mid 300's - According to my MD that was just fine, I was only 26-27

I started lifting and started taking Tribilus & Cialis. This made my numbers slowly climb to mid 600's - Yet, I barely felt better even way post PCT


After all of this, I said fvck it & started on self administered TRT. When I got off a cycle I started tapering my test dose down. I got down to about 200-250 & started to feel like I did before(Semi lethargic & mostly dickless). I started to taper back up, right when I got over 400mg per week I felt solid again. Real libido & awake/alert.


So here I am, battling sides and everything else that comes with it - yet I feel much better. I still try to drop to a low dose every few months or so. Possibly even come off to let my body clear out a bit.


GL Man

[weightpunk]

Damn that ain't promising.

[lovbyts]

Damn that ain't promising.

He is the exception to the rule though. You will find the more you read that most people do not need that much to feel good. Dont try chasing the dragon though always trying to feel on top of the world. That does not mean it's OK to feel like crap but dont try to always feel like superman. Even superman feels normal because he is use to the feeling.

Most people who try staying at the top of the range or beyond end up with to many sides and eventually feel worse and take a few months of being back at a normal trt dose around 100mg a week before they start to feel normal again. Everyone is a little different though.

[weightpunk]

I can assure you I ain't chasing no superman. I'm chasing a life that doesn't consist of me constantly re-assuring everyone around me that I'm ok, when in my private time I'm convincing myself why I shouldn't jump off a building.

What's the point of living a life where you're constantly trying to convince yourself that life isn't shit. Especially when you constantly feel like you're just bringing everyone that you hang around with down and trying to pretend like everything is ok when it's not.

[PistolPete33]

Yes, go to any of the many mens clinics, anti aging or using the banner to the right of your browser LowTestosterone .com

Any of them will do a full blood workup and go over the results and options with you.

Personally I think you just need to get your ass up and to the gym. The hardest part is getting there but once inside you seem to find motivation.

Also, a year is NOT a long time in scheme of things, especially when it comes to working out. 1 year is barely enough time to start to see gains.

FYI your testosterone being in the mid 300s is not bad and definitely NOT the range of a 70yr old man unless he is on TRT already or he is the healthy exception to the rule. A 70yr old man test would normally be more likely around 150 or less.

DONT just try self medication and going on TRT, that is not the answer to you problem and if nothing else you need to read ALL the stickies at the top so you will understand that TRT is not easy, not at all and it's not a cure all. TRT is a PITA to get right and in the best of circumstances it takes most people a year or more for people to get things right.

I agree 1000% with this. I've been on TRT for just under 2 years. At times it's so awesome and other times who knows what goes wrong but something gets messed up and I'm miserable for months at a time. Angry at the world for whatever reason and then I get dialed back in and feel good. Having to stick myself twice per week every single week sucks and then adding 2-3 more injections per week for HCG and it's terrible. Whenever I go away I need to plan everything with how to bring/store my Test and HCG and I have to be sure I take all my injections. Life without it is so much easier.

[weightpunk]

Life without it is so much easier.

So why don't you stop?

[OingoBoingo]

Needles don't bother me and I have the money so I see no reason to have a lower quality of life just for a needle every week.

Reading stuff like this makes me think your research is poor.

Instead of dreaming about what your numbers might be, try researching the posts of guys who are having problems. You could just as easily be one of those.

So why don't you stop?

Not everyone can just stop.

I injected daily, and although it sounds like a lot of fun, is isn't. Logistics is one thing, but there's also keeping people out of your stuff. Not so easy all the time. Hotel maids get nosey, and then what do you do?

Which is why in your case it would be better at your age to try a few rounds of PCT instead of just jumping on the TRT train.

[lovbyts]

So why don't you stop?

Because some of us have no choice. We are/were/would be far below the 300 mark and quality of life would suck. If my test had been in the mid 300s I would have looked into other means to try to raise it. I could not imagine pinning 3+ times a week for 50+ years either. 30 years (hopefully) is bad enough.

[weightpunk]

Reading stuff like this makes me think your research is poor.

Instead of dreaming about what your numbers might be, try researching the posts of guys who are having problems. You could just as easily be one of those.

Explain please, why is my research poor? I have read countless threads and spoken to two doctors now, almost always TRT improves quality of life. I even linked two studies above that state test <500 is likely to effect quality of life.

I am going to try the clomid restart first, as I already stated earlier in the thread.

I injected daily, and although it sounds like a lot of fun, is isn't. Logistics is one thing, but there's also keeping people out of your stuff. Not so easy all the time. Hotel maids get nosey, and then what do you do?

Who cares what a hotel maid thinks? Would you be concerned if you had diabetes and had to pin insulin and a maid found it?

Does pinning get more difficult or more painful? I just never had any concern with pinning at all, I was even on GHRP-6 for a long time and pinned 3 times a day for months and it didn't phase me.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm going to start with a clomid cycle. I'm just trying to work out what's so bad about TRT for life besides the pins? Or is there something about the pins I'm missing?

[PistolPete33]

So why don't you stop?

What I meant was life before having to pin was so much better. I would NEVER go back to the way I felt prior to TRT. It's been a godsend to be totally honest. It's helped me with my marriage, career, fitness, family, and everything in between. That said, if I could have found another way to raise my Test before going on TRT that would have worked so I didn't need to live by the needle for the rest of my life that would have been a much better option.

I'm hopeful that the FDA will change the approvals for Nebido though and then it will be a matter of pinning once per month or possibly only a few times per year. This would make quality of life so much better.

The good news is that this is big business so new ways to adminster Test will be developed within the upcoming years so pinning twice per week will most likely be a thing of the past. That said, i really don't mind pinning at all and have fun cycles where I would pin every single day but not having to take any meds at all would always be a better option.

[lovbyts]

What I meant was life before having to pin was so much better. I would NEVER go back to the way I felt prior to TRT. It's been a godsend to be totally honest. It's helped me with my marriage, career, fitness, family, and everything in between. That said, if I could have found another way to raise my Test before going on TRT that would have worked so I didn't need to live by the needle for the rest of my life that would have been a much better option.

I'm hopeful that the FDA will change the approvals for Nebido though and then it will be a matter of pinning once per month or possibly only a few times per year. This would make quality of life so much better.

The good news is that this is big business so new ways to adminster Test will be developed within the upcoming years so pinning twice per week will most likely be a thing of the past. That said, i really don't mind pinning at all and have fun cycles where I would pin every single day but not having to take any meds at all would always be a better option.

I'm pretty sure Nebido is legal to use in the US now.

[weightpunk]

Thanks heaps for the responses guys, really I mean that!!

So is scally's power pct what you guys reccommend? Neither doctors I saw recommended this, the first suggested that I see a pulmonologist for sleep apnea because he said almost always low testosterone is caused by sleep apnea (after reading on the internet, it seems this guys just retarded).

The second doctor just suggested TRT, test, hcg and arimidex .

Is scally's power pct the best way to try restart? I read a few threads about restarting and most people said their levels just went straight back.

And yep pistolpete I can totally relate on the relationship issues... My girlfriend is developing complexities because I never want to sleep with her anymore.

[PistolPete33]

I'm pretty sure Nebido is legal to use in the US now.

It is but from what my Dr. was saying about it the dosage they are allowing isn't high enough. He said if they bump it up it will be a great option but at the level they are allowing it's not optimizing Test for my men. They are testing it but not seeing good enough results to offer it to everyone.

[lovbyts]

It is but from what my Dr. was saying about it the dosage they are allowing isn't high enough. He said if they bump it up it will be a great option but at the level they are allowing it's not optimizing Test for my men. They are testing it but not seeing good enough results to offer it to everyone.

OK that makes sense now from the couple of post I have seen from guys using it not feeling much even after a few months.

[weightpunk]

Also, would it do any harm to try TRT for 12 weeks and then PCT hard? Would that reduce my chances of increasing my test by just trying some hardcore PCT thing right now?

Reason being that I am finishing my last semester of uni for an 8yr degree and need all the motivation I can get. I know during both my last PCT's I spent at least 10 of my 16 waking hours in bed basically in the fetal position.

[weightpunk]

This is scallys pct ^

[lovbyts]

Yes, if you already have low or near low Test levels then it could definitely make it lower permanently.

Stop looking for a quick fix. No matter what route you go it's not going to happend and you could make things worse.

[weightpunk]

So what do you think I should do lovbyts?

[weightpunk]

Earlier you said that my levels were definitely not in the range of a 70 yr old man.

Are these studies fabricated?

Testosterone Levels - Male

What's A Good Testosterone Level For a Healthy, Sexually-Active Male? - Get Ripped - Get A Life

Both studies show my levels to be lower than the average 85yr old male with significant sample sizes.

EDIT: and a third study shows my levels to be ~160ng/dl less than the average 60yr old here: