New to TRT

[1979 Trans Am]

Hey Guys,

I'm 45, took the Pepsi challenge and had my T level checked. The lab work showed that my free T level was in the gutter and that my SHBG was very high - not a good combo. They use a basic sliding scale for reference: 0-10 is low (I was a 4); therapeutic levels are 15-20. Doc told me I was an excellent candidate for therapy. Ok - I said let's do this, I'm not getting any younger.

What got me to the Doc was my symptoms: fatigue. I still do a lot of high intensity training (power cleans, dead lifts, lots of sprinting, chins, dips, etc.) The problem was extreme fatigue and inability to gain weight. I just felt hammered after training and it would take 3 to 4 days to recover from squats and cleans. Just made me feel old. I needed a nap!

The good news is that I'm now receiving HRT and am one month into treatment. My Doc is not much of a communicator, he just wants to monitor my blood and get me to a therapeutic range. His goal is to get me to 15-20 on their scale (again, right now I'm at 4), so we are talking about a massive increase of 4x. He said I should feel great at the elevated range.

Couple of important points: I'm not over weight or a diabetic. I live a disciplined, healthy lifestyle.

So, do I stick with straight Test regiment or should I pursue additional treatment like HCG? Anyone have any experience like this?

[Chauffeur]

I'm new to TRT as well, so take my advice with a grain of salt...

If I were you I'd talk to the doctor about a low dose of hCG to go along with your testosterone therapy. Even if maintaining fertility isn't that important to you at your age, hCG will allow you to maintain healthy testicular function and size. The testes do more than play a role in testosterone production. Allowing them to remain "active" has many benefits.

What TRT protocol did your doctor recommend for you?

[1979 Trans Am]

Hi Chauffeur,

Thanks for the follow up on my post.

My days of making babies are over! I had that fixed a few years back when I turned 40. But, like any human, I don't want to watch my body atrophy.

Currently, the Doc who is monitoring me on HRT is a PA, not a Urologist. His practice has a focus on Low T for men. I don't think his practice offers HCG therapy; but I will ask him when I see him on Friday.
It's good to know about all of this; my mind is still a bit overwhelmed that I'm actually taking Test (he has me on 120 Cypionate weekly), but he assured me that my body would respond well to treatment. First dose was 200, then 120 for the past 3 weeks. I have experienced better rest, better mental focus and I'm not needing to take a nap every day. Considering it's been 4 weeks, I would say I do feel better.

I want to maintain as much normal function as possible; so I will ask him about HCG therapy combination. I do appreciate the information, I'm motivated to keep up my lifestyle as it is.

Thank You!

[Joco71]

Good luck!!

[MBOS]

1979, I'm fairly new on here as well so we are all learning and sharing. Rather than trying to one finger on this post, I responded on the Sermorelin topic I saw you on. One week in on the HCG and I can see some sign of life from the fellas so I'm excited at thee prospects.
Everything I've read over the past 2-3 weeks highly recommends using both, I'm all in and will update as I hope you guys do as well. Regards,

[lovbyts]

Hi Chauffeur,

Thanks for the follow up on my post.

My days of making babies are over! I had that fixed a few years back when I turned 40. But, like any human, I don't want to watch my body atrophy.

Currently, the Doc who is monitoring me on HRT is a PA, not a Urologist. His practice has a focus on Low T for men. I don't think his practice offers HCG therapy; but I will ask him when I see him on Friday.
It's good to know about all of this; my mind is still a bit overwhelmed that I'm actually taking Test (he has me on 120 Cypionate weekly), but he assured me that my body would respond well to treatment. First dose was 200, then 120 for the past 3 weeks. I have experienced better rest, better mental focus and I'm not needing to take a nap every day. Considering it's been 4 weeks, I would say I do feel better.

I want to maintain as much normal function as possible; so I will ask him about HCG therapy combination. I do appreciate the information, I'm motivated to keep up my lifestyle as it is.

Thank You!

Yeah that's what I said when I was in my early 40s also. I had a spermaticel and decided to do the vasectomy at the same time since I was single and already had one kid. 12 years later and a new wife she would like to have one with me. DAMN.... lol

Read through the sticky pages at the top about hcg along with HRT. Even if you dont plan on having kids it's a good idea. Print out some of the docs and take it to your doctors office and see what he has to say. If he is not open to the idea I would look into an endo or a low T clinic.

[PistolPete33]

I've been on TRT for just under 2 years now and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. It can be a major PITA with the constant pinning all the time and planning around when you need to pin ect. I would def. recommend getting HCG if you can. It just makes life easier and better for the boys. I sometimes run out because of poor planning on my behalf and the boys shrink way way down. Not a good thing. it will take a bit for things to get dialed in but in a few weeks you will feel AWESOME.

What is your injection protocol? I split mine up to pin every 3.5 days instead of once per week to keep levels as stable as possible. I feel great almost all the time. Also, are you taking an AI as well?

[bullshark99]

The A.I is big, get your bloods done at the 6-7 week mark and be prepared to prob need at least a little anastrozole or equevelant.
BTW, I'm 46 and had a 79 TA, 403 olds engine back in the day, man what a fire breather!

[elija]

Hey guys,

I'm 37, 6-1, 95kg I got my results back today for my testosterone test 317ng/dl
The Doc said it was low but still in the normal range and left it at that.
From some of the research iv'e done that doesn't seem very good :/ and i want to take it futher which brought me to this site.
Iv'e been feeling like crap, sexual problems, feeling down and just lost the zest for life.
Any advice would be welcomed.
Cheers from Aust

[bullshark99]

E,

Read the rules Bro, and start you own thread, you won't get any responses here hijacking another post.

[kelkel]

Op, read the sticky on HCG. Search up Dr. Crislers paper on it as well.

@ Elija. Start a thread like Bull said. We'll jump in and help guide you.

[elija]

Sorry guys, I'm new to forums..

[1979 Trans Am]

He Guys,

Great to see all the responses, very cool - and encouraging.

Here's my update (consultation with PA and my baseline lab results):
I read through the HCG sticky this week and did a bit more research on the consequences of shutting down the HPT Axis (suppression). Makes sense and at the end of the day, we are here to maintain and hopefully, experience better health.

Luckily, today was my 5th appointment for therapy and during the conversation I brought this up to the PA who is treating me. He asked if I had any negative symptoms and I told him that my left testicle ached badly (4th week into treatment) last weekend and it lasted for almost 24 hours. I honestly thought it was from possible torsion because the pain was very acute, but apart from the internal ache, I did not have any other symptoms. So, I thought it might be possible due to the exogenous testosterone treatment. During my consultation today, I brought this up. He found it odd that I would have this ache as a result of therapy into my 4th week on 120mg per week. I then transitioned the topic and asked him if he was familiar with the consequences of suppressing the HPTA pathway. He said he was and the downside from his experience was really minimal. He said very few of his patients experience testicular atrophy. He continued by saying he only gives HCG to his patient who claim that they are in pain (testicular) or just have it in their head that they could atrophy and it creates an emotional distraction for them. I particularly did not like this answer; because he is saying I will prescribe it only if you are in pain or it mentally spooks you that your testicles may shrink. That kind of response to me infers that he prescribes HCG to his difficult patients.

Nonetheless, he can and does prescribe HCG. Which one and how much, I do not know. However, next week is my next lab day and I will tell him that I do want to include HCG as part of my therapy. So, I'll keep the members up to date on this initiative.

Regarding my baseline lab results, here they are:

- Folicle Stimulating Hormone [LH/FSH] = 6.3mIU/mL
- Prolactin = 5.2ng/mL
- Testosterone (Serum) = 320ng/dl
- Estradiol = 7.3pg/mL
- Prolactin = 5.2ng/mL
- PSA = 0.41
- SHBG = 58.5nmoI/L
- Thyroid = .35uIU/ML

My PA said that my Testosterone of 320 and my SHBG of 58.5 meant that my T level was definitely low. So, that's how I got started on Test Cyp.

Thanks for your time - look forward to your comments.

[bullshark99]

T.A. Totally agree, that is a strange response but at least you know he can and will prescribe HcG. Would of imagined your total T to be higher???? Next time request a Free T lab, this is a better indicator of the results of therapy.

[1979 Trans Am]

Hey bullshark99,

Thanks for the response.

On the subject of Free T; he told me they use a formula that includes Total Serum T and SHBG to get their Free T number. He showed me this formula, but I do not exactly remember how he got it. I think they also use data from Albumin...not 100% certain, but apparently he says he is going to get my levels of T 4x higher than they are now and keep me within safe limits (hematocrit range). Quite a statement, but he was matter of fact about it.

Will keep you guys posted as I have labs coming up next Friday.

Enjoy the weekend!

[thisAngelBites]

Hey,

I'm not popping in to say anything useful; it seems these good men here have you sorted.

But I wanted to say I liked your username! I learned to drive in my mother's 1978 Trans Am, and it was such a fun car. I had such a good time driving around in that thing with my friends, and I still think about it from time to time. I love cars and I sure wish I had one of those now, although I always liked the 1976s with the 455. Is that your car in the photo?

[1979 Trans Am]

Hi thisAngelBites,

Really appreciate the compliment on the T/A. I'm a total sucker for these older gems. Yes, it's mine. Black with red interior; 400ci bored .030 over with forged rotating assembly and makes 450lb to the ground at 4500rpm on pump gas. It's a lot of fun to cruise in; I get a ton a thumbs up just driving it around town. It's a blast to pick up the kids in it from school amongst a world of German sedans; fun to stand out and be recognized with American Muscle nostalgia. I've also got a '71 GTO with a RAM AIR III combo. That's a whole 'nother conversation, but thank you for sharing your personal experience with the '78. I love the front end of the '78; just glad to have a real T/A. I'll shut up now.

[bullshark99]

He'll get you 4x higher, I don't doubt that one bit. Remember, don't get too caught up in the numbers, much more important how you feel! Also, the higher you go, the more potential need for ancillary drugs, specifically A.I's.
Anyway, good luck bro, agree with angel, lots of good memories driving that bad boy!!!

[1979 Trans Am]

Bullshark99,

I hear ya - I'm not emotionally attached to a number. That was his sales pitch to get into my wallet. I don't doubt it, I'm sure he can achieve his goal. He did tell me if my estrogen gets out of bounds that he will counter it with an A.I. So far, I do feel better. My energy is up and there are nights that my rest is more deep. At the moment, I am not therapeutic, but again, I'm only 4 weeks into it and I'm avg. 120mg per week on T Cyp.

My chat with him today was in regards to HCG, my main concern is making sure I do not experience testicular atrophy. He seemed reluctant to offer it even though he can prescribe it and does for some patients. Next week, I'll do my second labs and will tell him that is the path I want to pursue. Not to mention, when I told my wife about the conversation, she said the last thing she wants is to see is my body parts shrink up.

[kelkel]

There's no reason for a doc to be reluctant to prescribe it. It's right on the package inserts for most HCG brands stating its use for Hypogonadic Hypogonadism. You can find an example via google or I can for you.

[1979 Trans Am]

Hi kelkel,

I've been seeing this guy for the past 4 weeks. His personality is a bit robotic, meaning he walks in, asks the same questions then has a nurse come in to hit the cheek. In all honesty, I think its his personality. I don't think he'll give me a hard time about my request, I just think he's not warm and fuzzy. Luckily for me, my insurance is covering this. My therapy is VERY affordable right now as it's just Test C and labs, I have no idea what the cost will be when I start HCG. Also on that note, I don't know if they will use real HCG or administer a peptide. Will find out next week when I see him again. I got a lot of questions, just need to ask them. Thanks for the follow up.

[thisAngelBites]

Hi thisAngelBites,

Really appreciate the compliment on the T/A. I'm a total sucker for these older gems. Yes, it's mine. Black with red interior; 400ci bored .030 over with forged rotating assembly and makes 450lb to the ground at 4500rpm on pump gas. It's a lot of fun to cruise in; I get a ton a thumbs up just driving it around town. It's a blast to pick up the kids in it from school amongst a world of German sedans; fun to stand out and be recognized with American Muscle nostalgia. I've also got a '71 GTO with a RAM AIR III combo. That's a whole 'nother conversation, but thank you for sharing your personal experience with the '78. I love the front end of the '78; just glad to have a real T/A. I'll shut up now.

Very nice, and a GTO too! Most days I'm in my German sedan (at least it's a Motorsport), but I also have a Skyline GTR R33 that I take to the track sometimes. Not old and cool, but definitely fast. But I do miss those days in that lovely gold TA.

[1979 Trans Am]

thisAngleBites - Jeez...you have a Skyline GTR R33...?? Very, very nice. Those cars leave an impression on you - slam you into the seat.

I sold my wife's RS4 last year...miss it, fun to drive. Not a GTR by any means, but it was solid on the road.

I do have an '87 RX-7 Turbo race car for the track; weighs 2400lbs and makes 350hp to the ground - all rotary. Car deserves a better driver...
It's pure therapy, but being a rotary, it's also a drama queen.

[thisAngelBites]

thisAngleBites - Jeez...you have a Skyline GTR R33...?? Very, very nice. Those cars leave an impression on you - slam you into the seat.

I sold my wife's RS4 last year...miss it, fun to drive. Not a GTR by any means, but it was solid on the road.

I do have an '87 RX-7 Turbo race car for the track; weighs 2400lbs and makes 350hp to the ground - all rotary. Car deserves a better driver...
It's pure therapy, but being a rotary, it's also a drama queen.

The Skyline doesn't get the time she deserves, sadly. But yes, such incredible fun.

I'm actually looking for an Audi at the moment. I just sold my old 328i and I am looking for an A6, and the S6/RS6 only come in automatic transmission, and I'm purely a manual girl. It's such a shame. Was your wife's a diesel or a petrol? The larger petrol Audis are like hen's teeth, at least in the UK.

I didn't realise those RX-7s had those lightweight rotaries. I just looked a bit at the Wiki page about the RX-7s.

Do you get the opportunity to drive your cars off the streets? We like to get to Germany once or twice a year, but it's easy to get busy and postpone for far too long. The motorways in England are 70 mph roads, and people often drive 90, so that makes it possible to get out and do 120-130 without calling too much attention to yourself at very slow times. But nothing is as much fun as the track!

[1979 Trans Am]

Skyline's are simply seductive....

Our RS4 was an '01 model with a 6 speed manual; it was the 2.7 twin turbo gas Cosworth engine. It had a lot of upgrades (engine internals were stock), but had upgraded electronics, injectors, turbos, clutch, etc. The car was fickle; it required a very intelligent tune or it would code and that drove us nuts. I will not miss the maintenance costs as it was a daily driver. However, it was a low 12 second car on pump gas with excellent ride quality; it had its moments.

The RS6 is a missile, but yes, the auto does hamper the joy factor a bit.

The RX-7 is stupid fun and belongs on the track. It's just too light and requires a skilled driver (that's not me); so it produces big grins !!

Love to chat about the cars - they are my therapy.

[thisAngelBites]

Skyline's are simply seductive....

Our RS4 was an '01 model with a 6 speed manual; it was the 2.7 twin turbo gas Cosworth engine. It had a lot of upgrades (engine internals were stock), but had upgraded electronics, injectors, turbos, clutch, etc. The car was fickle; it required a very intelligent tune or it would code and that drove us nuts. I will not miss the maintenance costs as it was a daily driver. However, it was a low 12 second car on pump gas with excellent ride quality; it had its moments.

The RS6 is a missile, but yes, the auto does hamper the joy factor a bit.

The RX-7 is stupid fun and belongs on the track. It's just too light and requires a skilled driver (that's not me); so it produces big grins !!

Love to chat about the cars - they are my therapy.

That biturbo RS4 had a v6, didn't it? So it at least had a timing chain instead of those belts which need the whole front end removed every 60k?

Anything over 2 litres in petrol is now an auto in the UK, sadly. I considered getting one and doing remap of ECU, but have decided against it, so I am just waiting for the right car.

I am lucky enough to have an Aston Martin engineer as my mechanic, but still, I don't relish the costs of all that potential tweaking. But then one has to accept that driving good cars hard means maintenance.

I don't get to talk about cars much (and I am still learning, although I am interested) - very few women are interested, and my husband couldn't care less as long as they get him from a to b.

[1979 Trans Am]

That biturbo RS4 had a v6, didn't it? So it at least had a timing chain instead of those belts which need the whole front end removed every 60k?

Anything over 2 litres in petrol is now an auto in the UK, sadly. I considered getting one and doing remap of ECU, but have decided against it, so I am just waiting for the right car.

I am lucky enough to have an Aston Martin engineer as my mechanic, but still, I don't relish the costs of all that potential tweaking. But then one has to accept that driving good cars hard means maintenance.

I don't get to talk about cars much (and I am still learning, although I am interested) - very few women are interested, and my husband couldn't care less as long as they get him from a to b.

Yes, it is a 6 cylinder with a timing belt; and you have to change the belt around 60k or run the risk or ruining the heads on the car. On the Audi, you were better off pulling the motor to do the timing belts, so you averaged around $1.5k every time to do this. To get all the performance out of the car and keep reliable, it was on-going investment. I loved the ride quality, quattro and torque. Fun car.

I learned my lesson - totally agree with you. Choose carefully so you can enjoy the car vs. the mechanic enjoying your wallet every 8 weeks.

Astons are gorgeous. My neighbor has one, the Vanquish (2012 model). Drop dead beautiful. He's had good luck with it.

[1979 Trans Am]

Hey Guys,

Apologies for the delayed post, but finally have my updated labs below:

I started therapy on 8/22: (confirmed Low T and E)
Test = 320
E2 = 7.3
On a scale from 0-10, my free T was a "4". They walked me through their protocol and range potential as they like to get their patients between 15-20. So, I was at the lower end of the goal. They started me immediately with Test Cyp.

Every week they have cycled me on Test Cyp 120.

As of 9/26:
Test = 783
E2 = 42

My Free T was now a "14" on their scale, so I am very close to meeting their goals. My PA said he wanted to start taking DIM-Plus tablets to offset some of the elevating E2 levels; said it should keep it down, if not, he'll put me on the A.I.

Hematocrit levels are within range and am also now on 300IU of HCG once a week.

Big difference from 5 weeks ago. I sleep, get to train hard, have better focus and have actually gained a few pounds without an increase in my waist. I'm sure some of the weight is water retention, but I don't feel bloated - so far, so good.

[bullshark99]

Happy for you man, enjoy!

[Beethoven]

Happy for you man, enjoy!

Ditto!

[1979 Trans Am]

Thanks Guys...getting better each week.