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Has any one tried test prop for trt and have any experiences to share good or bad? I understand frequent pinning gets old real fast but in reference to stable test levels, estrogen control conversion etc what was y'all experience and the protocol
Would this be considered a common trt regiment with prop
50mg prop E3D. I understand it all relates to BW but is 50mg E3D more common or lesser dose than that.
Thx
No I don't think using prop for trt is common and it would need to be used more often then that. Many are pinning test c bi weekly for stable levels
Asia..test Prop is common due to Mereck is the testosterone producer and only pharmaceutical version is test prop. They try to sell you on pills over shots here.
***I forgot undecanote...they have that as he alternative to test prop.
In Thailand you can get whatever but it is not US grade pharmacy gear (Mereck prop is)
Middle east it is whatever...many non US grade gear producers.
Europe is the same as Middle East
North America you can get what you want via US grade pharma and UGL. The reality needles are hard to get makes the prop not an attractive choice. I bought 500 5ml needles just before leaving Beijing...200 USD.
Funny you say this, I am currently in ME and will be here a fews years for work so Testolic (prop) or Cypionax (cypionate) by body research easily available. In the long run I want to switch to Nebido. I have only used prop and enanthate one or twice but it did not suite me well, estrogen, bloat tiredness everything was difficult. Prop suites me much much better and its quicker to address issues or stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier
For TRT i will only use slin pins 5/16th needles and testolic is thinner oil so is not an issue pushing through 31g delts, quads in rotation and stomach subq area
So planning well in advance, I still need to get all BW for base lines. I have already done it once and it was on the low side, waiting a couple of more weeks before another test and go from there
So any one doing PROP for trt and their experience would be valuable for me....
I couldnt easily find the typical bioavailability for TP, but it's such that it leaves your system quickly creating greater peaks & valleys which is not optimal for TRT purposes...
A website called danger & play highly recommends it, but you need to do it EOD minimum. Im actually curious to this as well. They have a podcast on that site and one of the members has been on TRT for 14 years and he says prop has hands down been the best for him surprisingly
Yes and it's fantastic! I had been stable on Cypionate EOD injections totaling 98 mg a week and switched to ED prop at 84mg a week to try to get the same T after cleaving the ester.
My goal was to try to mimic the body's natural production which peaks sometime between going to sleep and waking. So I took a nightly 12mg shot, subq in leg just below my hip crease. Same place I had been doing cyp.
I built up my dose over a 2 week period while the cyp got absorbed and then tested blood again at 4 weeks. I had a total T in the mid 1100s on cyp and the same, and within 20-30 points on prop.
But I felt totally different! Woke up with steel erections, awesome sex drive and sexual satisfaction, better in the gym. Everything was better even though my morning lab work showed basically identical T levels.
EXCEPT the prop I used, from a compounding pharmacy in Florida, used ethyl oleate and that stuff started oozing out of my pores and it stunk!
There is no value in a high sex drive when my wife thanks I smell bad all the time! So after a delightful 8 weeks (it took about 5 to start stinking) I switched back to cyp and back to the lesser payoffs. Sigh.
I'm about to start working with a doc in Dallas who uses many compounding pharmacies and I hope to find prop without EO in it. When I do, I'll be back to nightly injections and loving it.
31g, .3cc 5/16" BD insulin syringe, same as I use for cyp in case you're curious.
Oh, forgot to add: E3D...no way. Maybe with cyp, not prop. If you're doing TRT with it, every night. I did run one week with shots in the morning instead of night. Not the same. Take a small shot of prop around 9pm and the tiny spike occurs overnight and I think our bodies are designed to use it best at that time.
Now I'm really wanting to get back on it!
Prop is simply to much work for TRT. I don't see the need to over-complicate everything. You can't leave home for a couple days without taking your gear with you. That would get old real fast, imho.
To each his own but I sure don't want to deal with that EOD.
If you looking to maintain the diurnal nature of testosterone stick with gels or creams....
Having done cream for 6 months, and then injections for a year, I respectfully disagree. I would feel differently if every shot was IM! But when I ran prop with nightly injections it was a single .12cc injection from a 31g needle in my upper thigh sub-q. I timed it a couple of times, and it took about 2 minutes. A diabetic injects with the same type of needle several times a day!Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
Again, if I had needed to do it IM, then I'm out. I'm not gonna do that every night. But the tiny .3cc barrel generates tremendous vacuum and pressure, so the draw and injection are both very fast. The 31g 5/16" needle was usually not even felt as I injected it. I developed a routine that took about 14 minutes of my week..heck, call it 20 to be conservative! That's certainly less than it took to apply the cream and wait for it to dry enough that I could get dressed.
My bloodwork looked perfect on cyp and perfect on prop, but something about it was different in how I felt! If one is already doing injections on TRT, and their bloodwork looks like they should be killing it but instead they feel something lacking then I HIGHLY recommend trying it before discounting it because it's too much trouble. If after 4-6 weeks you don't think it's worth it, go back to what you did, and you're not really out anything but perhaps a few minutes of your time.
Dangit, I'm not being very clear. The 2 minutes I mention isn't injection time. It's the time it took to walk in the bathroom, clean, draw, inject, dispose of the needle. It's not a big deal once you have a routine down.
I understood the "2 minute" reference! I too have done most everything other than Aveed in my years on TRT.
I don't think it equates to diabetics. I'd bet every one of them would rather inject once or twice per week than daily.
I just think of the convenience factor, travelling, vacations, etc.
But, the beauty of this is finding what works for you. One man's meat is another man's poison!
Just saw your post count. Welcome to the forum Bill! Glad you landed here.
Thanks. I've been reading a lot and joined back in August I think. I have tried very hard to not say something unless it's an area I feel I can actually contribute something. This just happened to be one of those! I'll start a thread myself if I find a local doc that will work with me to get prop without EO and will post whether or not my experience is the same as last summer. I sure hope so. I felt like superman.
Ive been very interested in prop as well, id figure if u could get a script then a compounding pharm should have no issues making u some prop, when i see the endo again im gonna ask to be put on prop and see if it helps keep my hematocrit levels lower than on cyp? Not sure if it will but i started feeling like crap on cyp, and id love to give prop a try myself!
If you do pm me what they charge you. Very curious to know. I'm scripted Deca with my TRT and to get it compounded it's ridiculously costly ($300.)Quote:
Originally Posted by j2048b
wow i wish i could still get deca scripted to me, that was awesome, joints felt like i stuffed furry kittens in them haha and i could sooo use some of the deca at this point!Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
My insurance used to pay for it too. Then they started picking on the ingredients and said it doesn't meet their criteria as "compounded" and stopped paying.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2048b
thats exactly what got me thinking too. I have done many prop cycles but on ly 6-8week long and I LOVE prop. If it could be for TRT then I want to give it a shot but with trt its not 6-8 weeks its for life so thats what holds me backQuote:
Originally Posted by Rjay
Did you do this subQ ? I want to use the same slin pin but use delts, quads and maybe abdomen fatty areaQuote:
Originally Posted by Billegitimate
Also I did prop only EOD. E3D is new to me with prop - i was only trying to increase the pinning time but dont know if I will have pretty bad troughs with E3DQuote:
Originally Posted by ridedivefx
how do u even get the doc to script it to you anymore if u dont mind me asking? my hrt clinic stopped....Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
Yes, subq as stated in post. No way I'd jab a big needle in my muscles every single night! I've done as much as .35ml of 100mg/ml prop subq to see if it had a reaction. Nothing at all! So at least 245mg a week of test prop is easily doable subq. Can't imagine ever needing more that for a TRT dose! That's like a 280mg test cyp dose!Quote:
Originally Posted by ridedivefx
I highly recommend at least trying it subq.
How does someone get deca as a script?Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
Yes I am only going to do subq on TRT. But i am confused a bit. I use 5/16" 31 g slin pin. This is a tiny needle, but I do not have fat on my quads or shoulders ( i like to believe :) ), I only pinch skin on thighs. So if i pin 5/16" straight in my quad wihtout pinching the skin - is it going in to muscle, fat, or layer between fat and muslce. Same with shoulder, not sure where it goes. on typical cycles i only did IM with a longer needle so I know it was into muscle but with 5/16" needle size i am not sure any more. And if it is going into muscle would such a tiny needle cause damage in the long run with puncturing muscles essentially foreverQuote:
Originally Posted by Billegitimate
I know in my lower abs area it goes into fat
You can get anything as a script, all it takes is a doctor willing to prescribe it for "Off Label Use".Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnz4
This means that even though the drug may not be commonly used in this manner, quantity or for this specific condition the doctor feels that in your case its usage may be beneficial, and that the potential benefits, outweigh the potential risks.
Though I had never thought about it before the use of Prop in TRT to those willing to do daily injections, it sounds interesting to me.
Many, many, many drugs (particularly injectable) are being modified by big pharma so that they only have to be injected every week or so. This often results in a much higher peak blood concentration that when injected daily or bi-weekly with lots more sides and dangers. I was given one of these Pegylated Interferon and like many suffered serious sides (retinal nerve hemorrhage) where conventional interferon would have likely caused none. Fortunately the risks of a high blood level of Testosterone are much less, however risk aside I can see where a dosage that mimics the bodies natural rhythm or peak and valleys would be beneficial.
I pinch the skin and pull it up tight kinda making a tent shape. I then inject to the side of that, not in the pinch itself. The skin is held tight and sheared slightly, so the needle goes in easily. Keep everything the same while injecting. After withdrawing the needle, let go and the skin slides back and closes the puncture from the needle. Not a mark or a drop of blood if done this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by ridedivefx
If you try it, don't inject into the pinched area, just the skin that is lifted up off to the side of where you are pinching.
Lots of experimenting and I've settled on this as the easiest and most comfortable way to inject. Every once in a while I get a dull needle and having the skin pulled tight makes that go in more easily.
Out of curiosity what range of TT and FT will 40mg EOD or 50mg EOD of test prop put you in. I know its an individual thing but lets say for myself 37 year old healthy otherwise and current TT at about 320ish.
I am aiming for 800 or 900 range and then blasting for 8 weeks twice a year and cruising at 40/50mg prop
I would guess it would be pretty close to where you want but as you said it's individual. It depends on how much you convert to E2 also. EOD injections should help keep the E2 down.
Another Q:
If you are on Prop trt when should I get BW done to see if everything is ok. With Test cyp you can do one maybe after 4-6 weeks a day before your second pin (assuming 2 weekly pins), so with prop when can i do this.
1. After how many weeks?
2. When? if I pin M and W should I do the test on Tue? or wed before the shot or wed right after the shot?
kel,Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
pm sent on test prop thru compounding pharm!! decent price, a bit cheaper than my trt clinic but haha only by like $10....but yes it can be done easily, just have to find a pharm that has done it, as most ive talked to out here where im at dont do it....
plus if ur insurance will cover it, its dirt cheap!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridedivefx
with prop isnt it better to pin small amounts daily? i was under the impression that prop is so quick acting that it would be out of ur system relatively quickly, where as cyp takes time due to its eter and can stay in the system for a few weeks depending on initial dosage?....