Venturing into TRT (help)

[ridedivefx]

Hi Guys,

I am 37, done a number of cycles since 30, and with constant pct recovery, feeling low and then jumping on again with another cycle am thinking of going into TRT. My brain is saturated by reading all the stickies and other threads

Where I live none of the endos have any idea on how to admister TRT as a life style change and is not covered by insurance.

So I am asking to all the vets and experience members on how is self administering and monitoring of TRT been for you?. What problems or issues u faced for this long run of constant weekly pinning?

How often should I do blood work 6 months, 3 months?

Below is my current blood work in Aug 2014 I was not happy. This was after 8 weeks of Prop, 4 weeks of PCT and 10 weeks after waiting clean.

Total T: 338.5 ng/dl ref 260 - 1000
11.75 nmol/L

Prolactin 13.8 ng/ml ref 4 - 15.2
Estradiol 50 pmol/L ref 40 -162


The doc said all is FINE. After feeling like shit i went on another short cycle of prop and then PCT and been off PCT for 5 weeks now and don't feel anything close to being normal just my age with low sex drive, losing strength in gym, more inflammation in tendons/joints, out of breath quickly.

I understand TRT is a game of balancing your TTest maybe around 500 - 700, managing your estrogen to the lower third of the range.

After I do another blood test in a couple of weeks and if things are the same as previous blood work I am thinking...

200 mgs test c 1x per week (more or less??? is 200 mg ok?)
HCG ??? ius 1x per week (please advice on this. We want to get pregnant)
Aromasin /adex ??? mgs daily (which and how often? any other AI)
Proscar(Finasteride) 1 mgs daily (for hair)

I will be doing blast/cruise on this therapy occasionally. Any other advice or warning before I jump on TRT?

Again this is life style choice for me to remain healthy and extend the quality of life and preventive measures. I do not want to be in a situation where age has done a lot of damage and recovering at the point is impossible

Thanks

[DB1982]

Sounds like you haven't really allowed yourself the proper time to recover after a cycle.

Your jumping on another cycle 5 weeks after you finished your last. It's no wonder you don't feel normal. Give your body time to recover.
My opinion is your off cycle time should be equal to your on cycle + PCT.

As far as TRT have you checked into lowtestosrrone.com.
Just because Dr's in your immediate area are clueless doesn't mean you don't have any other options.

[Beethoven]

^^^^ I agree. not only that but if you've cycled enough you're going to feel differently off cycle. Give it time. I would not suggest self medicating so low t would be my choice IF it comes to it.

[kelkel]

Next time you pull blood work get the first example in the Finding A Doc sticky thread. Then post it up. TRT is not something to be taken lightly nor self-administered, even with the best of intentions. We (you) need to see complete BW to fully assess any issues.

[hawk14dl]

Whereabouts are you from? No need for specifics, I'm talking country/state (if your in the us).

I'd agree, give it one good well thought well executed pct. Don't jump into another cycle. Give it about 4 weeks after your pct and get bw done

[ridedivefx]

Next time you pull blood work get the first example in the Finding A Doc sticky thread. Then post it up. TRT is not something to be taken lightly nor self-administered, even with the best of intentions. We (you) need to see complete BW to fully assess any issues.

Thanks - I will definitely get the initial BW listed in that thread and post it here for advice before starting. I will wait for another 6 weeks or so to get the BW done. This will give me a total of 11 weeks AFTER pct from my last cycle (cycle was prop 6 weeks and PCT 5 weeks).

[ridedivefx]

Whereabouts are you from? No need for specifics, I'm talking country/state (if your in the us).

I'd agree, give it one good well thought well executed pct. Don't jump into another cycle. Give it about 4 weeks after your pct and get bw done

I am from Canada but transferred with work to Dubai. I intend to do a full BW as listed in Finding a TRT Physician sticky thread before I jump on TRT

[ridedivefx]

^^^^ I agree. not only that but if you've cycled enough you're going to feel differently off cycle. Give it time. I would not suggest self medicating so low t would be my choice IF it comes to it.

For me I would rather go with self medicating than live with low T. LIfe is just a lot more fun with higher Test . Need less to say self medicating is not a guessing game and shooting in the dark but approaching it with a lot of research and education and advice from y'all and hopefully the doc too

[ridedivefx]

Sounds like you haven't really allowed yourself the proper time to recover after a cycle.

Your jumping on another cycle 5 weeks after you finished your last. It's no wonder you don't feel normal. Give your body time to recover.
My opinion is your off cycle time should be equal to your on cycle + PCT.

As far as TRT have you checked into lowtestosrrone.com.
Just because Dr's in your immediate area are clueless doesn't mean you don't have any other options.

You are right. I will give another 6 week+ before the next BW. Appreciate the site I have already contacted them inquiring about their plans.

[ridedivefx]

Any comments on a what a sample TRT regiment may look like? As I stated earlier

200 mgs test c 1x per week (more or less??? is 200 mg ok?)
HCG ??? ius 1x per week (please advice on this. We want to get pregnant)
Aromasin /adex ??? mgs daily (which and how often? any other AI)
Proscar(Finasteride) 1 mgs daily (for hair)

OR it will solely depend on the results of the BW...

[hawk14dl]

That would be a wreck of trt.

I suggest you get more blood work. We can help from there.

But no, that wouldn't be worth anything for trt

[jstone]

This is my trt ptotocol. This is through a local doctor, and everything has been very consistent. I could get copies of my blood work and post actual number if your interested. It would take a couple days to get.


100mg test cyp every 5 days
250 iu of hcg 3× weekly
.25mg of arimidex every other day. This was just added due to an otc pro hormone elevating my estrogen. It's the first time in 3 years that i have needed it.

I don't know if this is the best protocol, but I know that all the other local doctors are clueless. The first one I went to had me on 200mg of test enth once a month.

[hawk14dl]

That's also not a very good protocol.

Op, get blood work. Then we'll provide you a good starting point

[kelkel]

Thanks - I will definitely get the initial BW listed in that thread and post it here for advice before starting. I will wait for another 6 weeks or so to get the BW done. This will give me a total of 11 weeks AFTER pct from my last cycle (cycle was prop 6 weeks and PCT 5 weeks).

It's the right thing to do. Maybe it is time for TRT, then again maybe something else is inhibiting testosterone production. I'd hate to jump into TRT if it wasn't really needed.

[Roger11]

i agree with the others. man, TRT takes time. Ive been on for 3 years and still am as of a few months ago altering my schedule. reducing the dose. taking arimidex . not taking arimidex. getting my e2 to around 30 instead of 20, do i need HCG ? ETC ETC ETC. it goes on bro. i WOULD honestly get rid of the proscar. Would not touch that shit with a 10 foot pole. That can also be a part of your problems. Nasty shit.


Good luck m8

[ridedivefx]

i agree with the others. man, TRT takes time. Ive been on for 3 years and still am as of a few months ago altering my schedule. reducing the dose. taking arimidex . not taking arimidex. getting my e2 to around 30 instead of 20, do i need HCG ? ETC ETC ETC. it goes on bro. i WOULD honestly get rid of the proscar. Would not touch that shit with a 10 foot pole. That can also be a part of your problems. Nasty shit.


Good luck m8

This is what I am looking for members who have been on for a while and if they faced any horrible problems which were difficult to solve short of stopping trt or issues that with some tweaking solved everything

I have never taken proscar for fear of all the side effects but you are right I may stay clear of this.

[ridedivefx]

This is my trt ptotocol. This is through a local doctor, and everything has been very consistent. I could get copies of my blood work and post actual number if your interested. It would take a couple days to get.


100mg test cyp every 5 days
250 iu of hcg 3× weekly
.25mg of arimidex every other day. This was just added due to an otc pro hormone elevating my estrogen. It's the first time in 3 years that i have needed it.

I don't know if this is the best protocol, but I know that all the other local doctors are clueless. The first one I went to had me on 200mg of test enth once a month.

Hi jstone, it may be a bit to ask but I would really appreciate what does blood work look like for a person on TRT just for education purposes. You can PM if you did not want to post up here - many thanks

[ridedivefx]

All,

Thank you for the comments. Of course TRT is not to be taken lightly and is a long term commitment. The best weapon i have is education and this forum. Right now I will wait to get my Blood work done in 6+ weeks time. Will bump this thread and post it up here for advise.

BTW i have a friend of mine late forties early fifties who is on TRT in Florida. He gets it covered through his insurance. I asked him if his doc maybe able to help, the doc has no issues he will send me the blood work requirements which I need to email him back and he can run my treatment online so to speak. I think this will be a good option to compare the advise I get here and from him. Majority consensus for the type of treatment and doses after looking at the BW has low chances of being wrong.

[ridedivefx]

Has any one successfully got pregnant after being on TRT for a while without complications. Did HCG help with that? I have read that HCG helps with fertility and keeps the testes functioning but constant long term use can cause desensitization of leydig cells and end up with permanent shut down.

[hawk14dl]

If you go on trt, your not worried about permanent shut down. Because trt is for life.

Plenty of people have conceived on trt. It does lower fertility, hcg does help but it's still lower then a normal person. You may luck out, or you may need to see a fertility dr. They have stuff that will increase sperm count

[ridedivefx]

If you go on trt, your not worried about permanent shut down. Because trt is for life.

Plenty of people have conceived on trt. It does lower fertility, hcg does help but it's still lower then a normal person. You may luck out, or you may need to see a fertility dr. They have stuff that will increase sperm count

Can you clarify..."stuff to increase sperm count during TRT" this is even if testes are no longer producing sperm?. I know HCG is used to keep sperm count in check but extended use of HCG may desensitize the leydig cells in testes. What other stuff is used to increase sperm count and can it be increased if the testes can't physically produce any more.

I am a bit confused on this.

[hawk14dl]

Testes stop producing testosterone . Not necessarily sperm.

The lowered sperm count is due to the testes shutting down, because they are no longer needed to produce test.

Hcg mimics the signal to continue to produce. You'll actually still produce some test on your own, as well as increase your (lowered) sperm count.

I don't know what the stuff they use to increase sperm count is called. It's been talked about on here before. I believe clomid is an alternative to raise sperm counts

[jstone]

I don't mind posting it in the open forum. His office e is closed on fridays, but Monday I will get copies of my blood work. It does take some tweaks to get it right, and what is right for some people my not be right for others. My levels are above the range 5 days after, and ten days after they are right in the middle. When. I get the blood work I will post my starting numbers, and my number while on the therapy.

I have been on trt for 3 years and I never needed an AI, until I took the pro hormone. Hawk said my protocol is not the best, but I feel great. It has been the best for me so far. Could it use some tweaks, I'm sure. I will worry about that when, and if I feel it is not working for me.

As far as fertility i could care less about that, I would actually be happy if it helped prevent me from getting someone pregnant. I can barely take care of my self so the last thing g I'm thinking g about is having a kid. I have read trt makes it harder to conceive, but not impossible.

[ridedivefx]

Guys so finally I got my FULL BW done. this is after the results I posted in my First post in this thread. 11 Weeks after my my last day on PCT. which was for 5 weeks itself

Not so Good
Hematocrit 52.1 HIGH 37.5-51.0 % 01
RDW 12.0 LOW 12.3-15.4 % 01

Testosterone , Serum 310 LOW 348-1197 ng/dL 01
Free Testosterone(Direct) 7.0 LOW 8.7-25.1 pg/mL 02
Dihydrotestosterone 30 ng/dL 03

Estradiol, Sensitive 5 3-70 pg/mL

LH 4.6 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 01
FSH 2.1 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 01
Prolactin 10.8 4.0-15.2 ng/mL 01
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.6 0.0-4.0 ng/mL 01

My test is low
My Estordial is very low. What do y'all advice now. Is TRT route to go now? Full BW attached

1423333082_XXX_92529_results v2.pdf

[Simon1972]

ive been on trt for around 3 months now- takes time to stabilise but i feel ok so far, if i were you id definitely go under the supervision of a dr- considering your are going to be in the middle east- i would also reserch the legalities of self administration and consider NOT goping down that route- you need all your paperwork up to date before you risk that.

just let a dr get you sorted- wait a year to stabilise and dial yourself in. research dubai's laws, play it safe and when you are in a safe zone then consider if you wont to blast.

[ridedivefx]

Agreed...i have already researched laws. It's pretty common here test and other stuff. Getting different pharm grade esters of test is no issue at all. Can get in pharmacy

What would the forums docs or experienced members recommend based on my BW?

[64509chvl]

Just wanted to pop in & say good luck in figuring it all out. I hope you can find the culprit rather than starting TRT, but if you do end up on TRT the fellas here are great to talk to along with solid advice! Also I've been on TRT for 15 months now & got my wife pregnant about 5 months ago...HCG is part of my protocol @ 300iu's 2x a week.

[OingoBoingo]

Hi Guys,

I am 37, done a number of cycles since 30, and with constant pct recovery, feeling low and then jumping on again with another cycle am thinking of going into TRT. My brain is saturated by reading all the stickies and other threads

Where I live none of the endos have any idea on how to admister TRT as a life style change and is not covered by insurance.

So I am asking to all the vets and experience members on how is self administering and monitoring of TRT been for you?. What problems or issues u faced for this long run of constant weekly pinning?

How often should I do blood work 6 months, 3 months?

Below is my current blood work in Aug 2014 I was not happy. This was after 8 weeks of Prop, 4 weeks of PCT and 10 weeks after waiting clean.

Total T: 338.5 ng/dl ref 260 - 1000
11.75 nmol/L

Prolactin 13.8 ng/ml ref 4 - 15.2
Estradiol 50 pmol/L ref 40 -162


The doc said all is FINE. After feeling like shit i went on another short cycle of prop and then PCT and been off PCT for 5 weeks now and don't feel anything close to being normal just my age with low sex drive, losing strength in gym, more inflammation in tendons/joints, out of breath quickly.

I understand TRT is a game of balancing your TTest maybe around 500 - 700, managing your estrogen to the lower third of the range.

After I do another blood test in a couple of weeks and if things are the same as previous blood work I am thinking...

200 mgs test c 1x per week (more or less??? is 200 mg ok?)
HCG ??? ius 1x per week (please advice on this. We want to get pregnant)
Aromasin /adex ??? mgs daily (which and how often? any other AI)
Proscar(Finasteride) 1 mgs daily (for hair)

I will be doing blast/cruise on this therapy occasionally. Any other advice or warning before I jump on TRT?

Again this is life style choice for me to remain healthy and extend the quality of life and preventive measures. I do not want to be in a situation where age has done a lot of damage and recovering at the point is impossible

Thanks

If there is any question about the PCT, it might be worth attempting an HPTA restart. Lots of good information on the forum.

Check out the Finding a Physician sticky for a list of tests you'll want to get. Post your results here along with the lab's ranges.

There's always a chance there might be more than one thing going on. There's also a chance it might be repairable; if so, it's better to fix the problem than jump on the TRT bandwagon.

The TRT goal of Dr. Crisler and the Life Extension Foundation is upper quartile of range. But it's also important how you feel; if you feel better at a lower number, so be it. But statistically, the upper quartile is where we do best.

Also remember that higher is not better. If you feel better at 900 than 1100, stay at 900.

While many think in terms of Total Testosterone , it's really Free Testosterone that is important. You can have all the Testosterone in the world, but if it's bound, it's not doing you any good.

According to LEF, using the standard test for men, E2 is best kept mid-range. Odds of problems skyrocket if too high or too low.

For a long time, 100mg per week has been considered a good starting dose for Testosterone; however, last year Dr. Crisler and Dr. Gordon (two big names in TRT) dropped their starting doses to 70mg and 60mg respectively.

I think a couple of things contributed to their decision. One being that a number of their patients ended up titrating down from 100mg. It's better to titrate up than down because it may save you from many unpleasant side effects;such as night sweats, water retention, and nipple pain.

Another is that I think E2 just naturally spikes when one starts TRT, and their body tries to find homeostasis.

Dr. Crisler recommends titrating in 20mg steps.

It's good your are thinking about hCG as part of your protocol. If injecting Testosterone once a week, it's usually a good idea to inject 350IU two days before and again one day before the Testosterone injection. The small amount of Testosterone made as a result of the hCG will help carry you through the trough.

If you choose to inject twice a week or daily (as I do), it might be better to inject 100IU daily.

My advice is to resist the urge to start a schedule of taking Anastrozole. If you start at a low dose as mentioned above, you might not have high E2. Injecting more frequently (twice a week or daily) will also help reduce E2 spikes. Supplementing your diet with Zinc will also help.

If you experience high E2 symptoms, take Anastrozole only when needed. Mark the dates on a calendar and you may notice some patterns.

Stay away from Fina and Duta. They're nasty stuff that can screw you up for life.

After you start TRT, you should get blood work again in about eight weeks. Depending on your numbers and how you feel, you may titrate your dose, run it for another eight weeks, and get more blood work. Be prepared for the process of getting dialed in to take some time. It's not uncommon for some to take a year or more.

Just relax and trust the process.

Forget about blasting until you've been dialed in a while.

[kelkel]

I'd give it more time as long as you're not feeling horrible and retest in maybe 3 more months. See what kind of trend you're on.
Other than that, everything OB said is on the money.

[ridedivefx]

Just wanted to pop in & say good luck in figuring it all out. I hope you can find the culprit rather than starting TRT, but if you do end up on TRT the fellas here are great to talk to along with solid advice! Also I've been on TRT for 15 months now & got my wife pregnant about 5 months ago...HCG is part of my protocol @ 300iu's 2x a week.

Good to know, becoming a parent is definitely something I want to do

[ridedivefx]

If there is any question about the PCT, it might be worth attempting an HPTA restart. Lots of good information on the forum.

Check out the Finding a Physician sticky for a list of tests you'll want to get. Post your results here along with the lab's ranges.

There's always a chance there might be more than one thing going on. There's also a chance it might be repairable; if so, it's better to fix the problem than jump on the TRT bandwagon.

The TRT goal of Dr. Crisler and the Life Extension Foundation is upper quartile of range. But it's also important how you feel; if you feel better at a lower number, so be it. But statically, the upper quartile is where we do best.

Also remember that higher is not better. If you feel better at 900 than 1100, stay at 900.

While many think in terms of Total Testosterone , it's really Free Testosterone that is important. You can have all the Testosterone in the world, but if it's bound, it's not doing you any good.

According to LEF, using the standard test for men, E2 is best kept mid-range. Odds of problems skyrocket if too high or too low.

For a long time, 100mg per week has been considered a good starting dose for Testosterone; however, last year Dr. Crisler and Dr. Gordon (two big names in TRT) dropped their starting doses to 70mg and 60mg respectively.

I think a couple of things contributed to their decision. One being that a number of their patients ended up titrating down from 100mg. It's better to titrate up than down because it may save you from many unpleasant side effects;such as night sweats, water retention, and nipple pain.

Another is that I think E2 just naturally spikes when one starts TRT, and their body tries to find homeostasis.

Dr. Crisler recommends titrating in 20mg steps.

It's good your are thinking about hCG as part of your protocol. If injecting Testosterone once a week, it's usually a good idea to inject 350IU two days before and again one day before the Testosterone injection. The small amount of Testosterone made as a result of the hCG will help carry you through the trough.

If you choose to inject twice a week or daily (as I do), it might be better to inject 100IU daily.

My advice is to resist the urge to start a schedule of taking Anastrozole. If you start at a low dose as mentioned above, you might not have high E2. Injecting more frequently (twice a week or daily) will also help reduce E2 spikes. Supplementing your diet with Zinc will also help.

If you experience high E2 symptoms, take Anastrozole only when needed. Mark the dates on a calendar and you may notice some patterns.

Stay away from Fina and Duta. They're nasty stuff that can screw you up for life.

After you start TRT, you should get blood work again in about eight weeks. Depending on your numbers and how you feel, you may titrate your dose, run it for another eight weeks, and get more blood work. Be prepared for the process of getting dialed in to take some time. It's not uncommon for some to take a year or more.

Just relax and trust the process.

Forget about blasting until you've been dialed in a while.

Thanks OB for the detailed info. I will certainly look into 100iu daily (5days) rather than 250 twice a week of HCG. But does this run a risk of desensitizing?

60mg/70mg weekly - I was looking at 25mg to 50mg of Prop EOD OR 40mg to 50mg of testE E3D

Also below are some values from the report what should they be around (optimal) for a person togo on TRT or is on TRT. What do I make of these numbers

Label Value Range-Range units
DHEA-Sulfate 242.3 102.6-416.3 ug/dL
TSH 2.210 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL
LH 4.6 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 2.1 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL (on low side)
Prolactin 10.8 4.0-15.2 ng/mL
PSA 0.6 0.0-4.0 ng/mL

[OingoBoingo]

Thanks OB for the detailed info. I will certainly look into 100iu daily (5days) rather than 250 twice a week of HCG. But does this run a risk of desensitizing?

As long as you stay well below 500IU, there shouldn't be any problem.

Please note I inject 120IU hCG daily, seven days a week. If my pituitary was working properly it wouldn't take weekends off, and neither do I.

In fact, I load Testosterone Cypionate and hCG into the same syringe so I only have to inject once a day.

I use a BD Ultra-Fine II, U-100, 0.5cc insulin syringe. It's nice because it has a 30g needle that's only 5/16" long. Painless.

60mg/70mg weekly - I was looking at 25mg to 50mg of Prop EOD OR 40mg to 50mg of testE E3D

Well, what you're thinking of is different from what Dr. Chrisler and Dr. Gordon start their guys on. Do the math; 50mg every other day is a lot for the week.

Where I live Prop is difficult to get. Make things easy. One can inject Testosterone Cypionate every day without problems, and it's very easy to get.

Besides controlling E2, one of the big reasons I chose daily injections is because they're small, and I don't have to remember some weird schedule. I wake up in the morning and pin. 10mg of Testosterone and 100IU of hCG is a very small load. It can be injected subcutaneously very easily.

Also below are some values from the report what should they be around (optimal) for a person togo on TRT or is on TRT. What do I make of these numbers

It's important to understand "normal" ranges reported by labs does not equal optimal. A lot of doctors don't understand that. For example, the E2 Standard normal range at my lab is 11 - 44, but LEF says 20 - 30 is optimal. And I know if I get much higher than 32 or so, I start experiencing sides. So for me, it's very easy to stay in the optimal range of 20 - 30.

[ridedivefx]

Besides controlling E2, one of the big reasons I chose daily injections is because they're small, and I don't have to remember some weird schedule. I wake up in the morning and pin. 10mg of Testosterone and 100IU of hCG is a very small load. It can be injected subcutaneously very easily.

So ED pins with TestE is ok? I dont have an issue with this but actually prefer it for less sides but I thought ED or EOD is best for prop and E3D to twice weekly for Test E.

And if I do go the route of EOD or ED pinning then would not prop (given availability) be a better choice then Test E or C?

[lovbyts]

Yeah pinning ed is fine, it just helps keep from any spikes so there is also less chance of higher E2.

No difference on Test E or C.

[OingoBoingo]

So ED pins with TestE is ok? I dont have an issue with this but actually prefer it for less sides but I thought ED or EOD is best for prop and E3D to twice weekly for Test E.

And if I do go the route of EOD or ED pinning then would not prop (given availability) be a better choice then Test E or C?

It's okay. Like lovbyts says, the longer esters smooth out the spikes.

I have a lot of late nights out and never know when I'm going to wake up, or who with. If I must delay the shot for a few hours, no pompem.

The long esters every day is good!

[ridedivefx]

Yeah pinning ed is fine, it just helps keep from any spikes so there is also less chance of higher E2.

No difference on Test E or C.

I understand, but the reason one will go with TestE or C is their longer half life and potentially longer duration between pinning, The minimum being E3D but if you are going EOD or even ED then why not prop.

It defeats the purpose of using TestE or C ED or EOD, correct?

[kelkel]

I'm curious why the fascination with prop? And why start with ED or EOD and over-complicate things when you simply may not need to. Not saying anything's wrong with it but to start off a protocol with daily injections, hell no.

[ridedivefx]

I'm curious why the fascination with prop? And why start with ED or EOD and over-complicate things when you simply may not need to. Not saying anything's wrong with it but to start off a protocol with daily injections, hell no.

Just cause of quick in and out if things are not right for what ever reason, less bloat and I personally feel better on prop than testE. I know test is test but i know its a different feeling. I was going to go with testC with E3D when OB mentioned he does EOD/ED pins with TestE and to me if its ED or EOD why not prop.

But OB has a point too if you miss a shot or in a situation you are unable to pin than the longer ester will not create too much of a fluctuation where as Prop will.

[kelkel]

But OB has a point too if you miss a shot or in a situation you are unable to pin than the longer ester will not create too much of a fluctuation where as Prop will.

Not to mention if you travel at all. I just have no desire to pin ED or EOD. No matter how easy or painless it is, it gets old.

[ridedivefx]

Not to mention if you travel at all. I just have no desire to pin ED or EOD. No matter how easy or painless it is, it gets old.

I have tried to look into Nebido but its not available where I am, have to imported from UK and is a ton of money.